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The Trinity
- Thread starter Atruthseeker
- Start date
What was from the beginning was Not God because God was 'before' the beginning.
Jesus was in the beginning [Rev 3v14] but Not before the beginning as God was.
God had No beginning according to Psalm 90v2.
As 1st John [1v3] uses the word 'and' and 'with' in conjunction with God 'and' Jesus being separate. When one is 'with' another there is another one involved.
Worship in Scripture can be either in an absolute sense, or relative sense as in doing obeisance [bow in respect] .
Jesus was in the beginning [Rev 3v14] but Not before the beginning as God was.
God had No beginning according to Psalm 90v2.
As 1st John [1v3] uses the word 'and' and 'with' in conjunction with God 'and' Jesus being separate. When one is 'with' another there is another one involved.
Worship in Scripture can be either in an absolute sense, or relative sense as in doing obeisance [bow in respect] .
outhouse
Atheistically
what makes you think ancient hebrews knew anything about the beginning of anything????
javajo
Well-Known Member
Yes :yes:.Outhouse,
i forgot, you know everything
1Cr 8:2 Anyone who claims to know all the answers doesn't really know very much
In Love,
Tom
17For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect. 18For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
19For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.
20Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?
21For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
22For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:
23But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
24But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
25Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
26For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:
27But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
28And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are: (1 Cor. 1)
IsmailaGodHasHeard
Well-Known Member
This place is crawling with haters. Do not let them get you down.
icebuddy
Does the devil lift Jesus up?
Did you read 1john1:1-5 yet or not. The Word is Eternaly with the Father. Isaiah 9:6 calls him the Father of Eternity. John 1:3 says nothing was created apart from him (Including himself). And you want me to believe he was created because of 2-3 passages that you take differently than myself although NONE of them say the words "Created".
Question: Can Psalms 102:25-27 be said about anyone but God?
Also, produce a passage that claims your belief That The Father existed without the Eternal Word. Also Produce a passage that claims God existed before the beginning and I can produce a passage that says the same is of the Eternal Word.
Arian Heresy - Rev 3:14 isnt even talking about Creation, its talking about Jesus being the Ruler of all creation. It was Created by him and for him - You really think everything is about a created being and not God himself?
YOUR BELIEF
The Whole Bible points to a created being and Everything was created by a created being and for a created being - What Jew would ever buy into that? How many Jewish converts does your religion get? (Thats a good question)
The thing is you believe the Greek word "DIA" is a seperating word when its the exact opposite. Anyways, thats why Im NOT a Oneness Penticostal, which is the belief you are trying to dispell with that comment. But you totaly dismissed the whole passage of `1John1:1-5. Every Bible I have ever picked up calls the Word Eternaly with the Father and you want to disprove that? What do you think the devil would want you to do?
So you Worship the Father and not the son? Do you show then different forms of honor?
In Love,
Tom
Shermana
Heretic
You actually have the Possessive case correct (Most translations erroneously use "Everlasting Father" ignoring the possessive case like it doesn't exist), but it says "Father of the age" as the Douay Rheims says, Ad does not necessarily mean Eternity and usually implies a set period of time.
icebuddy
Does the devil lift Jesus up?
And you are unwilling to say that of Jesus? However, the Father will say of Jesus
Hbr 1:10 And, "YOU, LORD, IN THE BEGINNING LAID THE FOUNDATION OF THE EARTH, AND THE HEAVENS ARE THE WORKS OF YOUR HANDS;
Hbr 1:11 THEY WILL PERISH, BUT YOU REMAIN; AND THEY ALL WILL BECOME OLD LIKE A GARMENT,
Hbr 1:12 AND LIKE A MANTLE YOU WILL ROLL THEM UP; LIKE A GARMENT THEY WILL ALSO BE CHANGED. BUT YOU ARE THE SAME, AND YOUR YEARS WILL NOT COME TO AN END."
Which is a direct quote of Ps102:25-27. Everything that God is, Jesus is. The Father knows this...
In Love,
tom
icebuddy
Does the devil lift Jesus up?
It really doesnt matter does it? You can read the words Eternal Torment, and say it doesnt mean Eternal, so does it really matter? What about Eternal Life, is that not eternal either. Your religion has watered down words to mean what ever you want them to mean.
Father says of the son
Hbr 1:10 And, "YOU, LORD, IN THE BEGINNING LAID THE FOUNDATION OF THE EARTH, AND THE HEAVENS ARE THE WORKS OF YOUR HANDS;
Hbr 1:11 THEY WILL PERISH, BUT YOU REMAIN; AND THEY ALL WILL BECOME OLD LIKE A GARMENT,
Hbr 1:12 AND LIKE A MANTLE YOU WILL ROLL THEM UP; LIKE A GARMENT THEY WILL ALSO BE CHANGED. BUT YOU ARE THE SAME, AND YOUR YEARS WILL NOT COME TO AN END."
icebuddy
Does the devil lift Jesus up?
What would the Devil want you to believe? I cant believe you bought this.... My heart is sad. Can I ask, Do you believe that you have a personal relationship with Jesus? I bet even if someone said to Jesus, "My Lord and My God", you wouldnt believe it...
In Love,
Tom
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Shermana
Heretic
What you believe is nice, and "Ad" can in fact mean "Forever and ever", but not always. As long as the "Father of" is acknowledged, that's halfway.
Amos 1:11
In this case, "Ad" means "Continously" but for a set period of time.
icebuddy
Does the devil lift Jesus up?
That is also what I believe. The thing is people that dont see God in the face of Jesus will see the Father being called "Beginning and End" and not say a thing about him having a beginning or an End. But when they see Jesus, who is the Image of God, expressing him fully, being called "Beginning and End", they say he has both a beginning and at some point had an End.... This I find interesting...
In Love,
Tom
If the son always coexisted there would be no reason to distinguish him as a son. Even the term only begotten still means that the the son did not always exist. You would never say that God was begotten since God is eternal.
outhouse
Atheistically
Outhouse,
i forgot, you know everything
1Cr 8:2 Anyone who claims to know all the answers doesn't really know very much
In Love,
Tom
Ah but I do have a grasp on history the faithfull have to ignore
Before doubting Thomas said 'My Lord and my God' in verse 28, didn't Jesus already clearly say at John [20v17] that his Father was his God ?
Doesn't John conclude chapter 20 in verse 31 that he [John] wrote that we might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God ?
Who does the resurrected heavenly Jesus think he is at Rev. 2v18 ?