The true religion invites comparison

[dyanaprajna2011]

The sentence in the bolds describes Islam.

This is incorrect. The Quran says that those who believe in God, the angels, the messengers, and the last day, will have their reward with god. This does away with alot of eastern religion. The Quran also states that god hates the unbelievers. This does away with every religion but Islam. The Hadith separates man into two camps, the believers, or Ummah, and the unbelievers, the kafir. So how exactly does Islam foster the spirit of religious tolerance, and the freedom to choose one's religion? Even though the Quran says that Jews and Christians are basically the same as Muslims, they are highly persecuted in predominantly Islamic nations. So please explain how your statement is true.

 

[Daemon Sophic]

Actually, you seem to have missed the point.
Again.

the point being that even within Islam there are Muslims who do not believe in an eternal lake of fire hell.

Of course. There are always individuals in any group that have variations or even complete contradictions to their group's doctrine. No religion is monolithic. But we are discussing the religion here, not the people.
In humanity there is hope, not necessarily their religions.

 

[McBell]

Of course. There are always individuals in any group that have variations or even complete contradictions to their group's doctrine. No religion is monolithic. But we are discussing the religion here, not the people.
In humanity there is hope, not necessarily their religions.

How can it be the the religion when people have such polar opposite beliefs about what said religion teaches?

 

[Daemon Sophic]

How can it be the the religion when people have such polar opposite beliefs about what said religion teaches?

Often it is because their own religious text condradicts itself, and that can be exploited by narrow (minded) readings and teachings by their priests/imams/monks etc....
Other times its just because they are human and they either don't know what the religion teaches, or choose to ignore what it teaches; yet when asked they will claim being of said religion.

 

[McBell]

Often it is because their own religious text condradicts itself, and that can be exploited by narrow (minded) readings and teachings by their priests/imams/monks etc....
Other times its just because they are human and they either don't know what the religion teaches, or choose to ignore what it teaches; yet when asked they will claim being of said religion.

Unless you have a verse from Holy Scripture that flat out says that so and so will spend eternity in a fiery lake of hell, you have merely furthered my point that it is the people and not the religion.

 

[Muffled]

Pasta be upon you.

Sorry, I think I'm pastaphobic. Sad but true.

 

[Muffled]

This is incorrect. The Quran says that those who believe in God, the angels, the messengers, and the last day, will have their reward with god. This does away with alot of eastern religion. The Quran also states that god hates the unbelievers. This does away with every religion but Islam. The Hadith separates man into two camps, the believers, or Ummah, and the unbelievers, the kafir. So how exactly does Islam foster the spirit of religious tolerance, and the freedom to choose one's religion? Even though the Quran says that Jews and Christians are basically the same as Muslims, they are highly persecuted in predominantly Islamic nations. So please explain how your statement is true.

I believe that is a narrow interpretation. There are many religions that believe in God.

Hadiths are not the word of God and therfore not dependable for doctrine.

Obviously there is a difference between what the scripture says and the beliefs of the adherents.

 

[Muffled]

Sorry. I did recognize your original sarcasm in your phrase "just as accurately". I was trying to drive home the point.

But I really was asking the question too (primarily of the OP). If your religion must rely on threatening people with eternal fire and pain for simply not believing the way you tell them to believe, then isn't your religion a complete con job?

PS- yes, I also recognize that the OP never mentioned such things, but then again, he/she never said what religion he/she believes is "the one true religion" or even what these countries in question might be. So all are fair game.

There are those who view deception a worthy method of getting a person saved as long as the result is achieved. I don't like using the devil's tactics and don't practice such myself.

God doesn't view this as compulsion (The Qu'ran states that religion is not a matter of compulsion) when He warns people of the dire consequences of sin. He sees it more as a loving way to make the choices clear. The fact is that many view this as compulsion because they wish to avoid the adverse choice but don't wish to do what is required.

 

[BruceDLimber]

The Quran says that those who believe in God, the angels, the messengers, and the last day, will have their reward with God. This does away with a lot of eastern religion.

In fact, it "does away" with little (if any) of eastern religion.

And although you state that the Qur'an speaks posistively of the various believers including non-Muslims, you then seem to manage to ignore this in the rest of your statement where you're so quick to condemn them!

So I put it to you that despite the fact that certain groups do indeed reject or torment followers of other religions, there is clear support for them in the Qur'an as well as elsewhere!

This thread's subject line is thus all the more true, and a bit more tolerance all 'round would be most welcome!

Peace,

Bruce

 

[dyanaprajna2011]

In fact, it "does away" with little (if any) of eastern religion.

And although you state that the Qur'an speaks posistively of the various believers including non-Muslims, you then seem to manage to ignore this in the rest of your statement where you're so quick to condemn them!

So I put it to you that despite the fact that certain groups do indeed reject or torment followers of other religions, there is clear support for them in the Qur'an as well as elsewhere!

This thread's subject line is thus all the more true, and a bit more tolerance all 'round would be most welcome!

Peace,

Bruce

The Quran is supportive of monotheism. And, while I'll agree with you and Muffled that the actions of some adherents may or may not accurately represent the religion, at the very least the religion itself is intolerant of polytheism, atheism, and anything that's not monotheism. If the subject line is to be true, then it would invite critical analysis as well as comparison, don't you think?

And, as far as tolerance, check some of my posts: I'm one who generally defends both Islam and Muslims. I have nothing against them, but I will call out something that is not logical or based in reality, until I'm proven wrong.

EDIT: And yes, it would do away with a good bit of Hinduism, all of Buddhism, and philosophical Taoism, as well as Cao Dai, Shinto, Bon, etc.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

at the very least the religion itself is intolerant of polytheism, atheism, and anything that's not monotheism...

Actually this is how some of the Followers of Islam represented Quran. The fact is, at the time of Muhammad, there were polytheism who attacked Muslims. There were other non-muslims who attacked Muhammad and killed many Muslims, and for that occasion and time, a war was allowed, as a defence.

 

[Thief]

How about ....church of the Golden Rule....?

Do unto others as you would have done unto you.

Nothing else...nothing more.

Well.....God would still be around somewhere....

 

[Daemon Sophic]

Unless you have a verse from Holy Scripture that flat out says that so and so will spend eternity in a fiery lake of hell, you have merely furthered my point that it is the people and not the religion.

Oh. I thought you already knew. This is sort of like being carded while buying beer. Don't these grey hairs give them a clue?
links.....What the Bible Says About Hell | Bible.org - Worlds Largest Bible Study Site in particular there is John 3:16-21, and revelation using the term 'lake of fire'. :faint:

As for Islam....link The Hellfire described - Islam web - English
In both of these Abrahamic texts, the use of hell as an obvious threat is not such a big deal when describing the fate of sinners such as muderers, rapists, thieves, etc... But when the "sin" is simply not believing (as both Abrahamic texts clearly "flat out" dictate)...then we all can see the evil inherent in the system.
Its the people who can be good, usually by selectively ignoring various directives of their religious guides/texts.

There are those who view deception a worthy method of getting a person saved as long as the result is achieved. I don't like using the devil's tactics and don't practice such myself.

God doesn't view this as compulsion (The Qu'ran states that religion is not a matter of compulsion) when He warns people of the dire consequences of sin. He sees it more as a loving way to make the choices clear. The fact is that many view this as compulsion because they wish to avoid the adverse choice but don't wish to do what is required.

Whatever. God puts eternal hellfire gun against your head: "Now I ain't sayin' what you gotta do. I'm just suggestin'....REALLLL nice like, that you think the way I want ya to. No pressure. BWAAAAHAAAHAHAHA!!!"
:no: A threat is a threat, no matter how one tries to dress it up.

 

[dyanaprajna2011]

Actually this is how some of the Followers of Islam represented Quran. The fact is, at the time of Muhammad, there were polytheism who attacked Muslims. There were other non-muslims who attacked Muhammad and killed many Muslims, and for that occasion and time, a war was allowed, as a defence.

I'm quite aware of this fact. I'm not saying that Mohammed's war against the Meccan polytheists was unjustified. What I am saying, is that the Quran speaks against anyone who doesn't accept tawhid, the complete oneness of a monotheistic god.

 

[Aamer]

I'm a Quranist. I only accept the Quran as word of God and religious doctrine. Most Muslims (Sunnis/Shias) would consider me an apostate because I don't follow their man made Hadith books. Ok so here's the deal from a Quranic point of view... Our ONLY purpose for existence is to worship God alone. No partners, no sons or daughters, no statues, no idols, no assistant gods, no saints, no ancestors, no graves of dead relatives, no spirits... Just God alone. As for one of the previous posts, murders, rapists, etc will have their punishment. These are sins according to Quran. But no sin compares to worshipping anything other than God alone. That is the greatest sin as we are denying the purpose of our creation. And if you die an unbeliever (polytheist), the punishment is eternal hell. If you repent before death, God is most forgiving. I find this totally fair. To worship God, you must let go of ego. At least in front of our creator. We would not exist were it not for him. He gave us free will. So if you want to pray to a monkey penis, that was your choice. Deal with the consequences. Must deny God out of pride and ego.

As for other religions, polytheist religions. Yes, Quran condemns the worship of anything other than God alone. And warns them of the day of judgment. But punishment for polytheists belongs to God alone. They'll get theirs on the day of judgment. We humans have no right to punish them here on Earth for their lack of faith. That's between each individual and God. All the pig faced scholars who are calling for the murder of apostates, idol worshipers, adulterers and homosexuals... Are following man made books (Hadith) or just making up baseless fatwas. God gives them no right to change or add to his laws. These ridiculous laws you will not find in the Quran. According to the Quran, we are only allowed to fight, kill in cases of self defense, oppression, if you are being kicked out of your homes or are not being allowed to practice your religion. If the non-believers are not doing any of the following, we are told to be equitable with them. Don't believe the pig faced scholars. They don't follow Quran.

[60:8] God does not prohibit you from those who have not fought you because of your faith, nor drove you out of your homes, that you deal kindly and equitably with them. For God loves the equitable.

[51:56] I did not create the Jinn and the humans except to worship Me.

[4:48] God does not forgive that partners be set up with Him, and He forgives lesser sins for whom He pleases. Whoever sets up partners with God has indeed invented a great sin.

[3:91] Those who have rejected and died while they were rejecters, if the earth full of gold were to be ransomed with it would not be accepted from any of them. For these there will be a painful retribution and they will have no supporters.

 

[BruceDLimber]

And yes, it would do away with a good bit of Hinduism, all of Buddhism, and philosophical Taoism, as well as Cao Dai, Shinto, Bon, etc.

I can't speak to the rest, but from what I've seen, both Hinduism and Buddhism survive quite nicely provided one realizes their scriptures assert theism. (Granted, variant groups exist that don't beleive in it.)

Peace,

Bruce

 

[BruceDLimber]

How about church of the Golden Rule?

Do unto others as you would have done unto you.

Possible.

For the record, the Golden Rule does indeed appear in the scriptures of ALL the great religions!

Peace,

Bruce

 

[InvestigateTruth]

What I am saying, is that the Quran speaks against anyone who doesn't accept tawhid, the complete oneness of a monotheistic god.

Yes, it does speak against anyone who doesn't accept tawhid in a sense that they are not following the right path. But it doesn't ask anyone to punish them or harm them just because they don't believe in Allah.

 

[dyanaprajna2011]

Yes, it does speak against anyone who doesn't accept tawhid in a sense that they are not following the right path. But it doesn't ask anyone to punish them or harm them just because they don't believe in Allah.

I'm aware of this, and I didn't mean to imply that it did. I was simply stating that Islam rejects such things as polytheism and atheism, pantheism, etc.

 

[dyanaprajna2011]

I can't speak to the rest, but from what I've seen, both Hinduism and Buddhism survive quite nicely provided one realizes their scriptures assert theism. (Granted, variant groups exist that don't beleive in it.)

Peace,

Bruce

As far as Buddhism, I think we've already had this discussion about whether it teaches theism or not. If not, I'll start a thread on the subject. But Hinduism, depending on the school, teaches various forms of theism, and even non-theism.