The Vortex beckons,how many contradictions and errors are in the Qur'an

[Gharib]

I don't mean the whole 'Muslim means submitter to God, and he submitted to God, so he was a Muslim' thing. That's Semantics, and it just makes the argument look incredibly weak. We all know that Adam would have been one who submitted to God, as well as all prophets would have been submitters to God (otherwise they would not have been prophets now, would they?) - but it doesn't make them Muslim in akin to the modern concept of Muslims.

a muslim is someone who has submited to the will of god. the god that is only one. therefore all those prophets were muslims. very similar to us muslims of today.

 

[England my lionheart]

the ummah of prophet Muhamed (saws) didn't appear before Muhameds (saws) time not muslims. islam is as old as man himself.

You have evidence of this,even in the earliest writings of the world there is no mention of Allah,Cave paintings do not depict any entity ony Animals and i doubt the first Homo sapiens thought past where there next meal is comming from.

 

[Bismillah]

I think its a pretty basic belief, that there is a "god" or you are inclined to believe there may be a "god" or you may wish to find something that proves to you there is a "god" if you come to a conclusion that "god " is the Author of the Quran. How else could any one come to that conclusion if they are not inclined to do so is beyond me.

Well if you come to believe that the Qur'an is faultless then of course you're inclined to believe that there is a God. It just is an example that the statement "you have to believe in Allah to believe that there are no contradictions in the Qur'an", can and has been reversed. The person wasn't look for something divine, the person was shown an example of how the teachings of the Qur'an benefit those who follow them. And then believed that due to the fact that the Qur'an is still applicable, thousands of years after, then no man could have wrote it (disregarding the fact that the Prophet was also illiterate).

I see absolutely nothing in there that is unique or supernatural. I mean if you want to see god or fate or divine intervention anywhere or every where--- you will.

It's not a "come to Jesus" moment. The purpose of the story is to demonstrate that even those who are skeptical of the existence of God, can be persuaded by reading and believing in the Qur'an. That to appreciate that Allah wrote the Qur'an, one does not have to believe in God, rather one can read and believe that the Qur'an is faultless and thus the creator is as well.

 

[Breathe]

a muslim is someone who has submited to the will of god. the god that is only one. therefore all those prophets were muslims. very similar to us muslims of today.

And also Christians, Jews, Sikhs, Zoroastrians, and Bahá'í are also Muslim. And in fact, anyone who believes in one God and wants to worship Him is a Muslim. Even if they don't believe Muhammad was a messenger. Even if they don't believe Muhammad was the last messenger. Even if they don't perform Hajj...


..nope? Doesn't work that way, there are certain requirements to being a Muslim as in the follower of Muhammad. It doesn't mean they are NOT submitting to God, after all - maybe in your view they are wrong, but they are to the best of their ability, submitting their will to God.

 

[England my lionheart]

Can you prove Adam wasn't a Muslim?

During my studies in Anthropology i studied some South American Indians called the Jivaro,now if all Humans are born Muslim with knowledge of Allah how come the Jivaro were into shrinking heads,how come theres no Allah,Adam,Gabriel or "mountains as pegs" in their spirituality,no Salat no Mecca.
It is claims such as "every Child is born a Muslim" and "scientific miracles in the Qur'an that invites criticism and ridicule from non believers.

 

[Bismillah]

Can you prove he was?
Sadly, the burden of proof is on the Muslims for these kind of things, not the non-Muslims. If one is going to claim that the first person to exist was Muslim, they should have proof for it. If they're going to say all children are born Muslim (despite children not doing anything Muslim-y), proof is needed.

There is little proof needed for 'children are not born Muslim', because I have children and many who do not raise them with religion do not go to Islam, and it's a case of logic that Adam could not have been a Muslim.

I don't mean the whole 'Muslim means submitter to God, and he submitted to God, so he was a Muslim' thing. That's Semantics, and it just makes the argument look incredibly weak. We all know that Adam would have been one who submitted to God, as well as all prophets would have been submitters to God (otherwise they would not have been prophets now, would they?) - but it doesn't make them Muslim in akin to the modern concept of Muslims.

There is a common identification with Islam today which logically we know that Adam would not have been able to do. Adam would not have been able to perform Hajj to the Kaaba, he would not have been able to declare that there is only one God and Muhammad is his messenger, he would not have been able to say the Qur'an is the holy book of God... So could Adam have been a Muslim akin to modern Muslims? I doubt it very much.

My belief that Adam is a Muslim stems from the fact that it is stated such in the Qur'an. Thus, my belief is justified as the Qur'an claims Adam was a Muslim. And my faith in the Qur'an is based on the fact that aside from many other things, I have yet to see any contradiction within its verses. So if the Qur'an is taken as "innocent until proven guilty" and I have not seen any contradictions, I can only assume the Qur'an is correct and by extension so is my statement.

Adam was a Muslim because, yes, he accepted that there was is one God. According to Muslim beliefs all prophets did submit to God and thus were Muslims. It is of Islamic belief that instances such as the Christian belief of Jesus being God and the Jewish rejection of Prophets sent from God (such as Prophet Isa/Jesus) are instances of the perversion of God's message. The creation of the Kaabah was done after Muslims forgot the word of God and became Polytheists, as well as indulging in the vices of life. The Prophet destroyed the idols and declared it the home of Allah. Thus it was an act rejecting polytheism and the perversion of God's message. Adam, being a Muslim, was no Polytheist. He submitted himself to the will of one God, Allah, and that was all that was necessary. Similarly Muslims believe that the Bible and Torah were the word of God and those who followed these books were Muslims, until they were altered and the message changed. Only after the message of Alllah was lost and forgotten so many times was the Prophet Muhammad sent to reveal the Qur'an an reaffirm the worship of God. Muslim, Jew, Christian. In Islam these three words represent the same believer, if they believed in the original word of Allah.

Again, a child is born innocent and ignorant. Just because he cannot remember his ties to Allah doesn't mean they never occurred. Only when the child willingly distances himself from Allah is the child no longer a Muslim.

 

[Bismillah]

During my studies in Anthropology i studied some South American Indians called the Jivaro,now if all Humans are born Muslim with knowledge of Allah how come the Jivaro were into shrinking heads,how come theres no Allah,Adam,Gabriel or "mountains as pegs" in their spirituality,no Salat no Mecca.

Because, in Islam, Allah sent Muslim Prophets to preach the original Torah. However, over time the teachings of Allah were lost and many succumbed to Polytheistic beliefs etc. etc. similar to the Arabs before the Prophet Muhammad's revelation.

 

[Breathe]

My belief that Adam is a Muslim stems from the fact that it is stated such in the Qur'an.

No proof, just circular logic. No further questions are needed.

Again, a child is born innocent and ignorant. Just because he cannot remember his ties to Allah doesn't mean they never occurred. Only when the child willingly distances himself from Allah is the child no longer a Muslim.

But there is no proof to it. Now we have a child that does not remember Allah, they do pray nor declare shahada nor wudhu, if asked about God they will be confused - even if you ask them how many gods there are. If they are not raised with religion most will not go to to Islam.

Both are without proof.

 

[Bismillah]

No proof, just circular logic. No further questions are needed.

Can you provide something that aligns with the topic of the thread? Specifically an error in the Qur'an? Frubals if you do xD

In the end it boils down to faith. We, obviously, place our faith in different things. You see me as someone who believes without any valid proof. Yet I see the Qur'an as proof. Hence we argue the night away until my dad stumps down and tells me to get of the computer before he chucks it out the window.

 

[Bismillah]

Prove to me that Allah doesn't exist.

 

[Breathe]

Can you provide something that aligns with the topic of the thread? Specifically an error in the Qur'an? Frubals if you do xD

The belief that sperm comes from a place between the ribs?
Supposedly, bones before muscle too? I dunno too much about this one though.

In the end it boils down to faith.

Pretty much, yes. However, I have a hard time accepting things like that.

Prove to me that Allah doesn't exist.

What's the point in that? I believe in One God, I'm not an atheist.

I just don't believe in such baseless claims such as all children are born Muslim or Adam was a Muslim when Islam wasn't even around until Muhammad spoke with Gabriel. If you called Adam a monotheist who submitted to God, I'd have no problem with that view. As I said, it all boils down to semantics, which are if I'm honest, often quite a dishonest play on words, like "Adam submitted to God, Muslim means submitter to God, therefore Adam was Muslim".

 

[Bismillah]

The belief that sperm comes from a place between the ribs?
Supposedly, bones before muscle too? I dunno too much about this one though.

Sorry I also need verses too

I just don't believe in such baseless claims such as all children are born Muslim or Adam was a Muslim when Islam wasn't even around until Muhammad spoke with Gabriel. If you called Adam a monotheist who submitted to God, I'd have no problem with that view. As I said, it all boils down to semantics, which are if I'm honest, often quite a dishonest play on words, like "Adam submitted to God, Muslim means submitter to God, therefore Adam was Muslim".

When Muhammad spoke with Gabriel then yes, he was revealed Islam.

What's the point in that? I believe in One God, I'm not an atheist.

The point is, just as I can't prove to you Allah exists you cannot prove to me he does not exist. Then if I am using circular logic, then so are you. What if I were to say your God doesn't exist? Is that not as baseless of a claim, then to state that all children are Muslim.

Yet Adam too was a Muslim, or rather let's say a believer. He and Muhammad believed in the same God. So you do not like the word Muslim to describe Adam. Fine, then you could say that both Prophets were revealed and believed in the same God.

anyway it's long overdue time to sleep.

 

[Breathe]

Sorry I also need verses too

Surah 86:7
Surah 23:13-14 (I think)
There you go.

When Muhammad spoke with Gabriel then yes, he was revealed Islam.

I agree that it was Muhammad who taught Islam, and whom all Muslims follow as the final prophet.

The point is, just as I can't prove to you Allah exists you cannot prove to me he does not exist.

But I neither want to nor need to.

Then if I am using circular logic, then so are you.

Kindly point out my supposed 'circular logic', and anywhere where I have used a holy book to validate my own religious views on something such as 'the first human was the same religion as me', or something similar.

What if I were to say your God doesn't exist?

I'd laugh at you, and ask "which God is that?" and "Why?"

Is that not as baseless of a claim, then to state that all children are Muslim.

Yep. However, it's far more difficult to disprove a deity than it is to disprove that children are born Muslim.

Yet Adam too was a Muslim, or rather let's say a believer. He and Muhammad believed in the same God. So you do not like the word Muslim to describe Adam. Fine, then you could say that both Prophets were revealed and believed in the same God.

If I'm honest, I'd be absolutely fine with that.
But then again, I believe in only one God - no matter what religion, I see all religions as attempts at following the Supreme Deity. Some having different interpretations.

anyway it's long overdue time to sleep.

Okay then, night!

 

[Gharib]

The belief that sperm comes from a place between the ribs?
Supposedly, bones before muscle too? I dunno too much about this one though.

Pretty much, yes. However, I have a hard time accepting things like that.

is this what i think it is?

 

[nameless]

what i mean is that islam traches that every human is born a muslim, and that it is his father and mother that make him a jew or a christian or a fire-worshiper.
Jamal

if everyone is born muslim and will preach allah as the only god then how did the first jew or a christian or a fire-worshipper came into being?

 

[Breathe]

is this what i think it is?

I dunno, what do you think it is?

 

[England my lionheart]

Because, in Islam, Allah sent Muslim Prophets to preach the original Torah. However, over time the teachings of Allah were lost and many succumbed to Polytheistic beliefs etc. etc. similar to the Arabs before the Prophet Muhammad's revelation.

Yes in Islam but outside Islam which is the majority of the world population its no,is this claim a way of aquiring some legitimacy.

 

[Gharib]

I dunno, what do you think it is?

um...a challenge that the quran contains contradictions and errors?

would i be right if i said that?

 

[Breathe]

um...a challenge that the quran contains contradictions and errors?

would i be right if i said that?

Sort of. I'm not challenging it, per se, but these are what are usually considered to be scientific errors within the Qur'an. Whether or not they are errors, though, is debatable. Perhaps they are translation errors, idioms, metaphorical sentences not to be taken literally, I don't know. That's up to others to say why they are or are not errors.

 

[Gharib]

Sort of. I'm not challenging it, per se, but these are what are usually considered to be scientific errors within the Qur'an. Whether or not they are errors, though, is debatable. Perhaps they are translation errors, idioms, metaphorical sentences not to be taken literally, I don't know. That's up to others to say why they are or are not errors.

i'll will respond to them, but will need to find out a tiny bit more on what islam says. i know just the general stuff but will check just incase i have it wrong.