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How is this a shallow claim? I can , for example, assert the reasoning behind accepting this Hadith by saying it comes from the Qur'an. Having read the Qur'an and believing it to be the word of God, since no statement can or has proven otherwise, something this thread claims to do, then it is only logical to assume that if the premise that the Qur'an is the word of God is correct, then the statement asserted here would likewise be correct.
What does the word "God" evoke? The word that comes to my mind is infallibility, supreme knowledge wisdom and control. Upon reading the Qur'an I am struck with a single fact. That the instructions laid out in the Qur'an are not only beneficial they are pragmatic. If applied, then not only will I be better of in the hereafter, but also in the physical world. That everything written in the Qur'an is for the betterment of myself physical and spiritual self. The wisdom of the Qur'an offers no contradictions and is the supreme guide on how to "do it right".
I have now read the Qur'an several times and do not believe that it is the word o' god. It fails on far too many levels for me to take it as seriously as you do. What you have to try to appreciate is that your reasoning works only within the root assumptions involved, therefore when taken in a larger context, the comment becomes absolutely meaningless. Oddly, I would expect a god to know that.
Those are examples of root assumptions, yes.
I see, I have a story that pertains to this. I know a old couple, both in their late 60s, who are very pious people. They also happen to be observant Muslims. They follow their lives according to the tenants to Islam, but what's more they follow their lives as if they are paradigms for society. They attend various charity occassions and the wife happened to be one of the pioneering Presidents for the American Muslim Woman's Association (AMWA). Not only would they help fellow Muslims, they donated to many Churches, worked on improving the status of immigrants arriving in Arizona (there is a large population of Mexicans along with Sudanese and Afghan refugees), as well as building bridges between Muslims and Churches, Police Stations, the Press etc. etc. Safe to say, they are upstanding citizens as well as registered Republicans (lol). Through their life they have met many other non/believers and have engaged in lively debates with them. However, the ones they have convinced are the ones they don't argue with. A woman named Barbara, who predictably wasn't a Muslim prior (except when she was a baby
) worked closely with the Father and became close to the two. She had no knowledge of Islam and never asked the couple about it. One day she asked why they acted so "morally". The man told her it was their duty as Muslims. The woman asked what the duty of Muslims is and the man described being generous, truthful etc. etc. At no time did he state the religious aspects of his faith, seeing as he was at work. However, the woman later converted to Islam because of the example the couple had led. Now, she clearly didn't have any root assumptions (being an atheist after all). She didn't believe in God, had little to no knowledge of Islam, and had no idea of its basic tenants. Yet when she realized what being a Muslim entails, then she embraced the Qur'an. She didn't start off with the assumption that God exists. She looked at the religion of Islam and from the Qur'an and its commandments decided to believe in Allah. Not vice versa.
I see, I have a story that pertains to this. I know a old couple, both in their late 60s, who are very pious people. They also happen to be observant Muslims. They follow their lives according to the tenants to Islam, but what's more they follow their lives as if they are paradigms for society. They attend various charity occassions and the wife happened to be one of the pioneering Presidents for the American Muslim Woman's Association (AMWA). Not only would they help fellow Muslims, they donated to many Churches, worked on improving the status of immigrants arriving in Arizona (there is a large population of Mexicans along with Sudanese and Afghan refugees), as well as building bridges between Muslims and Churches, Police Stations, the Press etc. etc. Safe to say, they are upstanding citizens as well as registered Republicans (lol). Through their life they have met many other non/believers and have engaged in lively debates with them. However, the ones they have convinced are the ones they don't argue with. A woman named Barbara, who predictably wasn't a Muslim prior (except when she was a baby
Perhaps, I have no way to know. What I do know is that both individuals were influenced by the Qur'an. Of course not, I don't deal in absolutes such as "Muslims good - Infidels bad"
This lady did not have any root assumptions when she believed that the Qur'an was infallible. And it was through this belief that led to the belief of Allah. She, obviously, could not see the spiritual benefits of acting in accordance to the Qur'an. But she clearly saw the physical benefits and the favorable situation the couple found themselves in, due to their faith. I can only assume that she believed that the word of the Qur'an was the path to lead a successful life here and in the hereafter. Thus an individual does not need any basic beliefs to come to the opinion that the word of the Qur'an is true. Yes, you could replace the religion and it would hold true. Exactly, this is what demonstrates that a person need not have any root assumptions to believe in the word of God, or discover God.
Paganism has been around far longer than Islam,Muslims did'nt appear until Muhammeds time.
What like Islam copied Christianity
That's all very nice, but you don't seem to appreciate how root assumptions work. The point is not meant as a slam against any particular belief structures. It is, however, an integral aspect OF belief structures themselves. Root assumptions form the core of understanding in personal reality and are the foundation principles upon which the individual builds their view of the world. In this way, Barbara most likely held many beliefs that meshed with Islam prior to her "reversion" otherwise Islam would not have made much sense to her to begin with. Is that clear enough?I see, I have a story that pertains to this. I know a old couple, both in their late 60s, who are very pious people. They also happen to be observant Muslims. They follow their lives according to the tenants to Islam, but what's more they follow their lives as if they are paradigms for society. They attend various charity occassions and the wife happened to be one of the pioneering Presidents for the American Muslim Woman's Association (AMWA). Not only would they help fellow Muslims, they donated to many Churches, worked on improving the status of immigrants arriving in Arizona (there is a large population of Mexicans along with Sudanese and Afghan refugees), as well as building bridges between Muslims and Churches, Police Stations, the Press etc. etc. Safe to say, they are upstanding citizens as well as registered Republicans (lol). Through their life they have met many other non/believers and have engaged in lively debates with them. However, the ones they have convinced are the ones they don't argue with. A woman named Barbara, who predictably wasn't a Muslim prior (except when she was a baby
But the point of the story is that she didn't Barbara was an atheist, she didn't believe in a God. Her becoming a Muslim was due to the positive consequences the couple enjoys as a result of their faith. If anything, she had a belief in Karma, you are the result of your actions.
What like Islam copied Christianity
Can you prove he was?
And he should'nt be missed either seeing how he was 90 feet tall