The War on Christmas

[andys]

Storm,
Your reply ("So, the ignorance of others excuses your own?") is ungrammatical/unintelligible.
(I suggest proofreading before posting)

 

[Storm]

Storm,
Your reply ("So, the ignorance of others excuses your own?") is ungrammatical/unintelligible.
(I suggest proofreading before posting)

When you have no rebuttal, ad hom!

 

[andys]

Storm,
I further suggest you inform yourself as to the meaning of an argumentum ad hominem.
There was no attack to your person. I honestly have no idea what your previous post meant.

Hypocritically, your reply to me IS an ad hominem, "So, the ignorance of others excuses your own?"

As for my suggestion that you proofread before posting, this was advice I follow myself, and evidently, that from which you stand to benefit.

 

[McBell]

Storm,
I further suggest you inform yourself as to the meaning of an argumentum ad hominem.

Seems that you are the one who needs to learn what it means...

There was no attack to your person. I honestly have no idea what your previous post meant.

***?
It is an ad hominem.

I do not understand how you can think that your inability to comprehend her question somehow makes your blatant ad hominem not an ad hominem.

As for my suggestion that you proofread before posting, this was advice I follow myself, and evidently, that from which you stand to benefit.

Perhaps you should also THINK about that which you write either while you proof read or after.

 

[imaginaryme]

I know somebody who might "benefit" from a kick in the ***; but, hey; I'm prejudice. I love Storm, the other one I know nothing of... anyhoo, what's the debate?

Do you know why solstice is on the 22nd, and Xmas the 25th? Because from the 22 to the 25, the sun is seen to stop traveling south for three days... kinda like holding the sun still, as it were.

Regardless of who did what way back when, I see a bunch of people now having a good time; I ain't got no debate with that. As for the OP, some people just need a killin'.

 

[Storm]

I know somebody who might "benefit" from a kick in the ***; but, hey; I'm prejudice. I love Storm, the other one I know nothing of... anyhoo, what's the debate?

Do you know why solstice is on the 22nd, and Xmas the 25th? Because from the 22 to the 25, the sun is seen to stop traveling south for three days... kinda like holding the sun still, as it were.

Regardless of who did what way back when, I see a bunch of people now having a good time; I ain't got no debate with that. As for the OP, some people just need a killin'.

The Solstice doesn't fall on the same calendar day every year.

 

[imaginaryme]

The Solstice doesn't fall on the same calendar day every year.

Yeah, but it makes a better story this way - close enough for government work, right?

 

[Storm]

Seems that you are the one who needs to learn what it means...


***?
It is an ad hominem.

I do not understand how you can think that your inability to comprehend her question somehow makes your blatant ad hominem not an ad hominem.



Perhaps you should also THINK about that which you write either while you proof read or after.

Thanks, sweetie.

 

[andys]

Mestimina
How is this an attack on Storm?
"There was no attack to your person. I honestly have no idea what your previous post meant."

Here's an ad hominem for ya, if you're so "apathetic" as your "religion" suggests, then mind your own business and quit playing the knight in shining armour to impress Storm. Failing that, get a room.

 

[imaginaryme]

Wow. Does "someone" have a persecution complex?

 

[gnomon]

I would still like to know how the Christians "stole" or "took" the pagan traditions. This ought to be interesting. Last I checked those Christians who "took" those traditions were converted pagans who "kept" their traditions.

I like to put words in "quotes".

 

[andys]

Gnomon,
I trust your interest is genuine and not sarcastic.
The "takeover" of the Yuletide celebration of the winter solstice happened in the 4th Century, after Christianity was adopted as the official religion by the first Roman Emperor, Constantine.

The people were reluctant to give up their party time, so Constantine declared Christmas a feast to be celebrated on December 25, the birth date of the Sun God, Mithra. Over time, the Church reassigned its own meaning to the beloved age-old customs and traditions. The evergreen Christmas Tree, which symbolized eternal replenishment of crops, (and was banished by Jesus in the Bible), was proclaimed to symbolize the Holy Trinity (because of its triangular shape). The Solstice festival, the celebration of the birth of the Sun, was changed to celebrate the birth of the Son.

Personally, I find it so terribly sad to have lost such a beautiful universal celebration, so steeped in Man's history and so genuine in it expression of gratitude for Nature's replenishment of the Earth every year in the midst of winter.
In three minutes, as I write, the Winter Solstice will be over, and few people living today will have given this important historic occasion a second thought.

 

[blackout]

Sun god, Son god.
(spell'cast)


People (re)symbolize things CONSTANTLY.

It's a human thing.

People find/see meaning in things...
People assign/give meaning to things.

Seer & Sourcerer.

 

[blackout]

Only the dictator tells us what a thing MUST (or "does") mean.

(& only the faith'full and the fear'full listen/follow the dictate/'author"it'y)

 

[McBell]

Mestimina

So much for your alleged proofreading...

How is this an attack on Storm?
"There was no attack to your person. I honestly have no idea what your previous post meant."

This:

Storm,
Your reply ("So, the ignorance of others excuses your own?") is ungrammatical/unintelligible.
(I suggest proofreading before posting)

is in fact an ad hominem.
You really need to pay attention to what you post.

Or perhaps you are merely pretending to be stupid as some sort of childish defense?

Here's an ad hominem for ya, if you're so "apathetic" as your "religion" suggests, then mind your own business and quit playing the knight in shining armour to impress Storm. Failing that, get a room.

Interesting how you are STILL avoiding Storms question.
Most revealing, I must say.

 

[andys]

UltraViolet,
You must have been a flower child in the 60s, at least you'd have made a good one. I actually mean that rather kindly. You always make me chuckle.

I appreciate your observation stated above. I don't mean to sound like a dictator. Let me try an analogy to see if I can get you to see my point of view (to see it—not necessarily to agree with it, ok?)

Have you ever seen the movie "The Thing" starring Kurt Russell (not the original black and white movie). A monster from outer space invades a person's body and slowly duplicates all their cells, until the person becomes 100 percent alien.

That is how I perceive the Christian invasion of the poor unsuspecting Yuletide Festival. All the original parts of the original festival were invaded, taken over, and replaced with foreign (alien) parts, until the original had a new alien form—a new identity.

Now it's not a perfect analogy, because the alien is a perfect facsimile of the original host, whereas Christmas is a rather poor copy of the original. Nevertheless, the point is that the death of the original host was an outright planned assault by the alien—not a benign, gradual evolution into something else.

The Yuletide Festival suffered the same type of deliberate takeover. The Christians could easily have picked a day of the year in the fall, a time more in keeping with when the Bible suggests the baby-god was born. They could have created their own symbols and traditions as well, rather that take over the existing ones and reassign their own meaning to them.

Then we'd have two festivals each year, each with its own unique traditions and symbols. But one was the victim of a hostile take over, and it bothers me that so few realize what happened and that even fewer even care.

 

[andys]

Mestaminor, Misterweenie, (or whatever deep mysterious name you have given yourself), you are only embarrassing yourself. As a graduate of philosophy, I regret that I have no inclination to educate you on matters which you evidently lack familiarity. In a sense, your persistence on this ad hominem matter constitutes an unwittingly self-directed ad hominem. Quite amusing.

Now, kindly tell me what question, from Storm, you feel I have not addressed.

I am turning in now, I'll reply in the morning.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

What part of this do you not understand?
"There is no generally accepted, single, current definition for the word 'Pagan' . The word is among the terms that the newsgroup alt.usage.english, calls 'skunk words'. They have varied meanings to different people. The field of religion is rife with such words. consider: Christian, cult, hell, heaven, occult, Paganism, pluralism, salvation, Witch, Witchcraft, Unitarian Universalist, Voodoo, etc. Each has so many meanings that they often cause misunderstandings wherever they are used. Unfortunately, most people do not know this, and naturally assume that the meaning that they have been taught is universally accepted. A reader must often look at the context in which the word is used in order to guess at the intent of the writer."

Or if that is not sufficient for your preoccupied mind, the President of the The National Clergy Council, the Rev. Rob Schencka uses the term "pagan" exactly as I understand it to mean, namely, "secular" (the state of being separate from religion):

His exact words:


"The concept behind this Jericho March is to 'tear down' the walls of the new 'Washington Paganism' — the secularization, New Ageism and postmodern amoralism — epitomized in the Clinton-Gore Administration, in the morally weak leadership in the Congress, and in the liberal members of the Supreme Court."

Now lick your wounds and try to win this argument by addressing the argument.

For one, there are many terms in our language that have different meanings to different people. Hell, even trying to define being a man or being a woman will produce many varied definitions. However, Paganism is defined. If you look back in history, it originally referred to country dwellers. Today however, it is used, and this can even be found in dictionaries, as an umbrella term for all non-Abrahamic religions. However, since this is very broad, many people use filter out most religions, and it used to describe earth based religions, such as Wicca. That my friend, is generally accepted.
And I have not met anyone who would consider atheist to be pagan.

 

[McBell]

Mestaminor, Misterweenie, (or whatever deep mysterious name you have given yourself), you are only embarrassing yourself. As a graduate of philosophy, I regret that I have no inclination to educate you on matters which you evidently lack familiarity. In a sense, your persistence on this ad hominem matter constitutes an unwittingly self-directed ad hominem. Quite amusing.

Now, kindly tell me what question, from Storm, you feel I have not addressed.

I am turning in now, I'll reply in the morning.

Interesting that you have now moved to masturbating your ego.

 

[McBell]

And I have not met anyone who would consider atheist to be pagan.

I have.
Of course, they define pagan as anything that is not their own particular belief.