The Word

[The Anointed]

In response to Trailblazer's post #138.

Acts 17: 31; For he (The Lord God our savior,) has fixed a day (The seventh period of one thousand years, the Great Sabbath) in which he shall judge the whole world with justice by means of a MAN he has CHOSEN. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising that MAN from death.

T.B....That does not say that Jesus is coming back to earth.

Where in the scriptures does it say that God has raised any man other than Jesus, to everlasting life? And who do the scriptures say will sit in the throne of Jerusalem and rule the world with a rod of iron for a thousand years?

MYSELF, I believe that it is at the sound of the last trumpet, after the thousand Year Sabbath has ended, and before heavenly fire descends and incinerates all physical life form on earth, that the elect and chosen shall be changed in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, from bodies of Corruptible matter, into glorious bodies of incorruptible brilliant and blinding light.

That's a nice fantasy, we all have our own beliefs. (And what is your fantasy young fellow?)
So what will happen to those who are not elect and chosen, or. does that even matter?

They will be incinerated with all other physical life forms on this planet, as revealed by the prophet Zephaniah, and Revelation 20: 7; After the thousand years are over, Satan will be let loose from his prison, 8and he will go out to deceive the nations scattered over the whole world, that is, Gog and Magog. Satan will bring them all together for battle, as many as the grains of sand on the seashore. 9They spread out over the earth and surround the camp of God's people and the city that he loves. But fire came down from heaven and destroyed them.

Zephaniah 1: 2-3; The LORD said, “I am going to destroy everything on earth, 3all human beings and animals, birds and fish. I will bring about the downfall of the wicked. I will destroy the whole human race, and no survivors will be left. I, the LORD, have spoken.

Verse 18; On the day when the LORD shows his fury, not even all their silver and gold will save them. The whole earth will be destroyed by the fire of his anger. He will put an end — a sudden end — to everyone who lives on earth. (everyone who lives on earth, being the operative sentence.)

The first law of thermodynamics is the same as the first law of conservation and that is, that energy can neither be created or destroyed. So, if energy cannot be created, then it always was, and If it can never be destroyed, it always will be. Therefore, according to this law, energy must be eternal, having neither beginning or end. Energy can be and is converted to that which we perceive as matter. In fact, this apparent material universe at the time of the Big Bang, was pure electromagnetic energy, which, IMO, was spewed out of a WHITE Hole, in the trillions upon trillions of degrees, which has been converted to that which we perceive as matter only to be reconverted to its original form as electromagnetic energy during the phase of the Big Crunch.

It is the eternal energy, which has neither beginning or end, that has become this material universe and has developed a mind that is the compilation of all the information gathered by all the diverse life-forms that it [The Eternal Energy] has become, the collective consciousness of all that it is.

In fact, it has now been revealed that matter is no more than an illusion. Quantum physicists discovered that so called physical atoms are made up of vortices of energy that are constantly spinning and vibrating, each one radiating its own unique energy signature.

If you observed the composition of an atom with a microscope you would see a small, invisible tornado-like vortex, with a number of infinitely small energy vortices called quarks and photons. These are what make up the structure of the atom. As you focused in closer and closer on the structure of the atom, you would see nothing, you would observe a physical void. The atom has no physical structure, we have no physical structure, physical things really don’t have any physical structure! Atoms are made out of invisible energy, not tangible matter.

Nothing is solid & everything is energy: scientists explain the world of quantum physics

An excerpt from the above link.

The stream of knowledge is heading towards a non-mechanical reality; the universe begins to look more like a 'GREAT THOUGHT' rather than a great machine. The mind seems not to be an accidental intruder into the realm of matter, but rather a creator and governor of the realm of matter. (R. C. Henry, « the mental world »; Nature 436: 29, 2005)

It is the 'GREAT THOUGHT' that has manifested itself as this seemingly physical universe, and is the collective consciousness of all that it has become.

In 1935, Einstein and physicist Nathan Rosen used the theory of general relativity to elaborate on the idea of black holes and worm holes, proposing the existence of "bridges" through space-time. These bridges connect two different points in space-time, theoretically creating a shortcut that could reduce travel time and distance; Billions of light years to mere metres.

According to general relativity, the gravitational collapse of a sufficiently compact mass forms a singular Schwarzschild black hole. In the Einstein–Cartan–Sciama–Kibble theory of gravity, however, it forms a regular Einstein–Rosen bridge.

The gravitational collapse of a single star such as the minor star of our solar system, can only form a White Dwarf, the gravitational collapse of bigger stars can create a neutron star, or a Black Hole, depending on its mass, but not necessarily a Worm Hole.

A worm Hole could theoretically be used as a method of sending information or travellers through space, unfortunately, physical matter which includes humans journeying through the space tunnels would appear to be an impossibility as there are strong indications that material objects travelling through a worm hole is forbidden by the law of physics.

But now that it has been discovered that Physical matter is but an illusion, and all is, but the eternal energy, perhaps one day new technology may develop a way to teleport bodies of energy along light beams and reconstruct them to their original form, with no damage done. Wormholes may not only connect two separate regions within the universe, they could also connect two different universes.

In 1935, Einstein and physicist Nathan Rosen used the theory of general relativity to elaborate on the idea of black holes and worm holes, proposing the existence of "bridges" through space-time. These bridges connect two different points in space-time, theoretically creating a shortcut that could reduce travel time and distance; Billions of light years to mere kilo-metres.

According to general relativity, the gravitational collapse of a sufficiently compact mass forms a singular Schwarzschild black hole. In the Einstein–Cartan–Sciama–Kibble theory of gravity, however, it forms a regular Einstein–Rosen bridge.

The gravitational collapse of a single star such as the minor star of our solar system, can only form a White Dwarf, Our sun will eventually burn up all its lighter elements and move on to the heavier material and blow out as a Red Giant, when this happens, it will expand outward and get so large that the orbit of the earth will actually be inside the sun, and the earth’s crust will be melted into an ocean of lava.

Eventually, there will be nothing there to burn and all that will be left of our sun will be a compact White dwarf of carbon and oxygen about the size of today’s earth, and a thimble full of material from the White Dwarf would weigh anything up to a ton.

A neutron star is what is left over when a very heavy star explodes. This explosion is called a Supernova, the gravitational collapse of those bigger stars, create a fast spinning body no bigger than the earth, which is so dense that even a thimble full of their material, would weigh anything up to about 100 million tons.

Atoms have a certain weight, but the weight is almost all in the nucleus. The nucleus inside an atom is so small that if you made a model of an atom that was the size of a large house, the nucleus would still only be the size of a grain of salt. An atom, apart from its nucleus, is almost all space.

In a neutron star, all of the atoms have been crushed together so tightly by the force of gravity that their nuclei are touching. If you can imagine the amount of space needed for a billion large houses to occupy, then reduce that to the space needed to house a billion grains of salt, which still weigh almost the same as the billion houses, then you have some idea as to what a neutron star is. But unlike a Black Hole neutron stars do radiate beams of energy.

As previously stated, according to general relativity, the gravitational collapse of a sufficiently compact mass forms a regular Schwarzschild black hole, which is a non-rotating black hole as opposed to a rotating Kerr black hole. Nothing can escape from a black hole, not even light, the mass within a black hole warps the fabric of space, as the internal mass increases by the objects falling into and being devoured by that gravitational anomaly, it begins to form a funnel like tunnel in space.

Any object going into a black hole would be ripped apart by the intense gravitational force inside the black hole and reconverted to the photons from which it was originally created.

In 1963, New Zealand mathematician Roy Kerr, calculated an exact solution for Einstein’s field equations representing a Kerr black hole. The special feature of a Kerr black hole is that it rotates. So far as scientists know, all objects in the universe rotate, including stars, so when the star collapses into a black hole, it’s likely that it too will rotate.

In Kerr’s solution, it’s actually possible for the electromagnetic energy from which this universe and all herein was created, the quantum of that energy, being photons, to travel through the rotating black hole and could come out of the white hole at the other side.

A worm Hole could theoretically be used as a method of sending information or travelers through space, unfortunately, physical matter which includes humans journeying through the space tunnels would appear to be an impossibility as there are strong indications that material objects travelling through a worm hole is forbidden by the law of physics.

But now that it has been discovered that Physical matter is but an illusion, and all is, but the eternal energy, perhaps one day new technology may develop a way to teleport bodies of energy along light beams and reconstruct them to their original form, with no damage done: ‘Beam me up Scotty?’ (The great rapture.) Wormholes may not only connect two separate regions within the universe, they could also connect two different universes.

Miracles are no more than natural phenomenon, for which the observer of that event has no rational explanation. I have no doubt, that during the thousand years of peace on earth the technology to teleport people from one place to another, will have been achieved.

From the Book of Enoch the prophet 108: 11-13; “And now I will summons the spirits of the good who belong to the generation of light, and I will transform those who were born in darkness, who, in the flesh were not recompensed with such honour as their faithfulness deserved. And I will bring forth in shining light those who have loved My holy name and I will seat each one on the throne of his honour. And they shall be resplendent for times without number.”

 

[The Anointed]

In response to Trailblazer's post #138.

Acts 17: 31; For he (The Lord God our savior,) has fixed a day (The seventh period of one thousand years, the Great Sabbath) in which he shall judge the whole world with justice by means of a MAN he has CHOSEN. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising that MAN from death.

Trailblazer said....That does not say that Jesus is coming back to earth.

Zechariah 14: The Lord will gather all the nations together to make war on Jerusalem. The city will be taken, the houses Looted, and the women raped. Half the people will go into exile, but the rest of them will not be taken away from the city. Then the Lord will go out and fight against those nations, as he has fought in times Past. (This has not yet happened)

Numbers 24: 17, "A king, like a bright star, will arise in that Nation. Like a comet he will come from Israel. He will strike the leaders of Moab and beat down all the people of Seth. He will conquer his enemies in Edom and make their land his property. While Israel continues victorious. The Nation of Israel will trample them down and wipe out the last survivors." Zechariah 12: 10; "They will look upon me and see the one who they pierced, and they shall mourn for him as one mourns for an only child etc."

Isaiah 63: 1-6, "Who is this coming from the city of Bozrah in Edom? Who is this so splendidly dressed in red, marching along in power and strength?" It is the Lord, powerful to save, coming to announce his victory. "Why is his clothing so red, like that of a man who tramples grapes to make wine?" . . . . . The Lord answers, "I have trampled the nations like grapes and no one came to help me. I trampled them in my anger, and their blood has stained all my clothing. I DECIDED THAT THE TIME TO SAVE MY PEOPLE HAD COME; it was time to punish their enemies. I was amazed when I looked and saw that there was no one to help me. But my anger made me strong, and I won the victory myself. In my anger I trampled whole nations and shattered them, I poured out their life’s blood on the earth."

See Zechariah 14. The Lord will come to fight for his people Israel as he has fought in times past and from within the inner most sanctuary of his tabernacle (The kingdom of God is within you) which temporary tabernacle is the body of mankind, he will fight the enemies of Israel; those Nations who surround Jerusalem in their attempt to drive God's chosen people into the sea.

The African tectonic plate in its northern migration, grinds against the Arabian plate in a line that runs up through the Red Sea and along the Jordon valley beneath the Mount of Olives.

Zechariah 14: 3-4; Then the Lord will go out and fight for his people as he has fought in times past. At that time, he will stand on the Mount of Olives, to the east of Jerusalem. Then the Mount of Olives will be split in two, from east to west by a large valley. Half of the mountain (On the African plate) will move northward, and half of it (On the Arabian plate) will move southward.

Could the violent activity around the earth at this time, be the trigger that will cause the super volcano beneath Yellow stone to erupt, enveloping the planet in a cloud of debris? And that day shall be neither day nor night, but a perpetual twilight.

Zechariah 14: 13; Then the Lord will throw those nations that surround Jerusalem, into a state of total confusion, and the weapons of destruction with which they would destroy Israel, he will cause them to turn upon their own allies and they shall suffer a terrible disease, the soft tissue such as their eyes and tongues will melt in their sockets, and their radiated flesh, cooked to the bone, will slide from their bodies while still standing. Then all the surviving Nations will send their representatives each year to Jerusalem in the land of Israel, to worship and pay tribute to the Lord who will rule the whole world with justice for a thousand years, and woe betide those who refuse to do so.

Then all the godless people of this world, and all those, who in their Synagogues, Mosques, and Cathedrals of stone, marble, or crystal, who prostate themselves on the floors or who sing and dance with their eyes and hands raised to the heavens in worship of a god they neither know or understand, will bow down and worship THE God of the Bible, the Most High in the creation, ‘The Son of Man’ who evolves from the body of mankind.

It is in that thousand years of peace that all our resources will be used to prepare for the ultimate destruction of all physical life forms that remain on this planet. Knowing that which is to occur after the one thousand year Sabbath, when heavenly fire incinerates the surface of the earth, with the great wealth that will be paid in tribute by the nations of the world during that thousand year rule of our king and high priest, genetic banks of all physical life forms will be created, (The Ark) and sent to a place of safety in order that when the incinerated earth is once again able to sustain physical life forms, Plants will be planted, animals will be created anew, and when the system for the sustainability of mankind has been put in place, the Lord, our brother, king, and high priest will say, "And now, let us make man in our image and likeness." And a new and more, humble Race of men will people this earth.

"Under the guidance of Jupiter (Planet) man prepares, by means of religious exercises, for the journey to the life beyond, and he attains rest under the influence of Saturn." (Basra Encyclopedia)- De Boer, Philosophy in Islam, p 88.

The water ocean on Enceladus, a moon that orbits the planet Saturn, is about 6 miles (10 kilometers) deep and lies beneath a shell of ice 19 to 25 miles (30 to 40 km) thick, researchers said. Further, it's in direct contact with a rocky seafloor, theoretically making possible all kinds of complex chemical reactions — such as, perhaps, the kind that led to the rise of life on Earth.

"The world being melted and re-entered into the bosom of Jupiter, this God continues for some time totally concentered in himself: . . . afterwards we see a new world spring from him, perfect in all its parts; animals are produced anew; an innocent race of man is formed under more favourable auspices, in order to people this earth." " Seneca, Epist, 9, and Qucest. Nat. L. 3, c, ult.

 

[The Anointed]

Continued from post #142.

It was the prophet Zephaniah through whom the Lord said; "I am going to destroy everything 'ON EARTH', All human beings and animals, birds and fish. I will bring about the downfall of the wicked. I will destroy mankind and no survivors will be left. I the Lord have spoken. . . . . . . . . "On the day when the Lord shows his fury, not even all their gold and silver will save them. The whole 'EARTH' will be destroyed by the fire of his anger. He will put an end----a sudden end----to everyone who lives 'ON EARTH.' "

The weekly Sabbath, said Paul, in Colossians 2: 17; was but a shadow of the reality in the future, which is the Great Sabbath, the Lords day of one thousand years.

From the Book of Jubilees 4: 30; "And He (Adam) lacked seventy years of one thousand years; for one thousand years are as one day in the testimony of the heavens and therefore was it written concerning the tree of knowledge: "On the day thou eat thereof ye shall die." For this reason, Adam did not complete the years of that first day; for He died during it." Adam died at the age of 930 in the first day.

We are now approaching the close of the 6th day and the beginning of the 7th, which is the great Sabbath, “The Day of The Lord” the seventh period of one thousand years from the day that Adam ate of the forbidden fruit and died in that first day at the age of 930, which day begins after the greatest period of tribulation that this world has ever seen.

This coming period of tribulation is said to be so severe, that if it were not for the intervention of the Lord, no flesh would survive. We are almost at the close of the sixth day, and soon comes the great tribulation, which is the war to end all wars, after which the Sabbath will dawn, but when? Nobody knows the exact date.

One of the worst tribulations that the earth has suffered in recent times occurred some 75,000 years ago with the Toba super eruption, which was a super volcanic eruption that occurred sometime between 69,000 and 77,000 years ago at Lake Toba (Sumatra Indonesia). It is recognised as one of earth’s largest eruptions.

Thousands of cubic kilometres of material would have been blasted out into the stratosphere blocking out the light all over the world, turning the sun and moon into huge blood red orbs and causing the earth’s temperature to drop some 21% and it would possibly have been a thousand years, before rainbows could form in our atmosphere again.

The related catastrophe theory holds that this event plunged the planet into a 6 to 10 year volcanic winter and possibly an additional 1,000 year cooling episode. This change in temperature resulted in the world’s proto-human population being reduced to 10,000 or even a mere 1,000 breeding pairs, creating a bottleneck in human evolution.

Could an eruption such as this, be more of a blessing, than a curse, could a protective shield around the earth to protect us from increased heavenly radiation for a period of time, be established, to give us time to prepare for the ultimate end of all physical life forms that remain on this planet, and if so how?

The huge column of molten rock that feeds Yellowstone's "super volcano" dives deeper and fills a magma chamber 20 percent bigger than previous estimates, scientists say. The finding, based on the most detailed model yet of the region's geologic plumbing, suggests that Yellowstone's magma chamber contains even more fuel for a future "super eruption" than anyone had suspected.

The model shows that a 45-mile-wide (72-kilometer-wide) plume of hot, molten rock rises to feed the super volcano from at least 410 miles (660 kilometers) beneath Earth's surface. The deepest part of the plume actually sits beneath the town of Wisdom, Montana, about 150 miles (241 kilometers) from Yellowstone National Park, a steady flow of hot rock in Earth's upper mantle causes the plume to drift to the southeast, where it fills a magma chamber that sits just 3.7 to 10 miles (5.9 to 16 kilometers) beneath Yellowstone.

Other new data show that Yellowstone's magma chamber extends 13 miles (21 kilometers) farther to the northeast than previously thought. Scientists had already known that Yellowstone is a volcanic hot spot, and that within the past two million years, the region has seen three mammoth eruptions at intervals of about 600,000 years, and it is 640,000 years since it’s last eruption. Such events it is said, can produce at least 77 cubic miles (360 cubic kilometers) of basalt: enough to bury Washington, D.C., under nearly 7,200 feet (2,200 meters) of solidified lava.

The ground beneath Yellowstone is said to be 74cm higher today than it was in 1923, which indicates a massive swelling beneath the Park. Scientists believe that the reservoir of Magma is filling at an alarming rate and as that volcano erupts with an average cycle of 600,000 years and the last eruption was more than 640,000 years ago we are overdue for annihilation.

Forget about the death total within the immediate period of the explosive eruption, but just imagine what happens to our communication and ground and air transport systems, fuel supplies, power grids, atomic power stations spewing out radiation into the atmosphere, etc, etc.

What did Jesus say concerning that day? "Pray that your flight be not in winter, (The nuclear/volcanic winter) and woe unto the women who are pregnant in those days, perhaps the evolutionary son of man, came from mutants that are to be born in those days.

Zechariah 14: 6; And it shall come to pass in that day, (The Lord’s Day of one thousand years) that the light shall not be clear or dark: and it shall be one day which shall be known to the Lord, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that evening time it shall be light. On that day there will be neither sunlight nor cold, frosty darkness. On that day living water will flow out from Jerusalem, half of it east to the Dead Sea and half of it west to the Mediterranean Sea, in summer and in winter. The LORD will be king over the whole earth. On that day there will be one LORD, and his name the only name.

Could the Great prophesied war in the Middle East be the trigger to set off the volcano beneath Yellowstone, bringing in a thousand- year period of twilight in which rainbows can't form in our atmosphere? And when, according to Isaiah 65: 20, "If one were to die during that period at the age of 100, they would be but a child.

Revelation 20: 7-9: It is after the thousand year rule of Christ has ended (How long after? Nobody knows.) that the last trumpet will sound and the fire from heaven descends and incinerates the surface of this planet as prophesied by Zephaniah.

In dream I saw the heavens ablaze with balls of fire
Huge hailstones that were burning and streaking down the skies
The earth was clothed in purples, dark orange, and deep blue
Like a swaddling cloth surrounding us that hid the stars from veiw
Dark clouds rose from the mountain peaks, earth's veins were opened wide
Through which her inner blood spewed forth in streams of living fire
Whole continents, they heaved and tossed, waves rippled through the ground
In all the earth, no hiding place of safety could be found
The oceans boiled, they foamed and rose destroying cities on their shores
All the river dams were busted, valley towns were seen no more
The power stations of the earth--all were melted down
A few survivors of the human race were all that could be found
And then I saw the winter, a winter so severe
It lasted not a few short months, but many, many, years
And the women who were pregnant, Ahh, the children that they bore
Grotesque and hideous malformations, I pray to see that sight no more
Then when the winter lifted and the crops began to grow
A strange and eerie world emerged from the destruction and the snow
A world with neither day nor night where rainbows couldn't form
In the atmosphere above the earth, and yet the air was strangely warm
A thousand years of twilight and through that swaddling band on high
Three blood red giants were blazing through a hazed and orange sky
The sun and moon had turned to blood, but far brighter than the moon
Was Jupiter, that heavenly light, which in time would spell man's doom.........The Anointed,


This is from a documentary on Yellowstone where scientists in the field of volcanic activity speak of that particular hot spot.

The volume of Yellowstone"s magmatic system is about twenty to twenty thousand cubic kilometres. It is about eighty kilometres long, forty kilometres wide, and eight kilometres deep. In other words, the magma chamber is over three times the size of New York City. Steve Parks believes that if a Super eruption occurred tomorrow, the consequences would be catastrophic. An area the size of a continent would be utterly devastated and the planet would suffer server effects for years after.

Looking at the recent eruptive history of Yellowstone said Bill Mcguire, there’s been minor eruptions every twenty to thirty thousand years, but nothing’s been seen for some seventy thousand years, which suggests that something might be overdue. He reckons that another Super eruption somewhere on the earth is an absolute certainty, whether it will be at Yellowstone is still questionable, but there is a reasonable chance there will be. Super eruptions have occurred throughout earth’s history and they aint going to stop now.

A new cycle of Super eruptions began over two million years ago when the hot spot arrived under Yellowstone. Since then there have been two more Super eruptions at Yellowstone. One point 3 million years ago and the other six hundred and forty thousand years ago. Disturbingly, these eruptions appear to be in a cycle of between six to seven hundred thousand years and the last one was six hundred and forty thousand years ago.

[Quote Bill Mcguire]: We could have an eruption next year, or we may have to wait many thousands of years to come. Now I would not be surprised if there were another eruption in my life time, but I would also not be surprised if there were not.

Professor Bill Mcguire was born in 1954 and is Professor of Geohazards at University College London and is Britain’s leading volcanologists. He has a PhD in Geology from Liton College of Higher Education, now the University of Bedfordshire in the 1980s, former home of well known TV geologist Iain Stewart. He was then appointed Reader at Cheltham & Gloucester College of Higher Education, which is now the University of Gloucester, and made it into the university sector in the 1990s when he was appointed Professor of Geohazards and Director of the Aon Benfield UCL Hazard Research Centre at University College London.

The two-episode documentary that I referred to, reveals the cutting-edge research that informed the drama. Where the experts who monitor the behaviour of the Yellowstone supervolcano, and who face the awesome responsibility of predicting when the next super-eruption might next take place - and advising on what will happen when it does. The programme goes behind the scenes to reveal the work being done to try to understand the sequence of events that could one day culminate in this apocalypse, and to calculate the global fallout that would follow it.

The commentators and those who worked behind the scenes of this documentary, were Allisdair, the voice of the narrator, Bill Mcguire whose qualification have been given, Jake Lowenstern from the Yellowstone Observatory, Steve Sparks of the university of Bristol, Hank Heasler who was/is the Co-ordinator scientist, Yellowstone National Park, Bob Smith a professor from the University of Utah, plus others

 

[Hermit Philosopher]

The Greek word "logos" is used 256 times in the New Testament. As far as I can tell, with the exception of John 1:1 & 14, there would be few Christians that would say any of them refer to Jesus. They all are clearly seen as meaning a well thought out and reasoned communication using words, which happens to be the actual main definition in any Greek lexicon.

What makes it's usage in John indicate it means "Jesus?" Why couldn't it be consistent with all the other 252 usages and mean God's thoughts as spoken to mankind, that He had a plan in mind from the beginning which he revealed in the scriptures and which Jesus followed to the letter as per John 1:14?

Dear rrobs,


A “well thought out and reasoned communication using words” may not be the best definition of Logos in relation to this subject.


Logos is “basis” and “code”. It is a collection of variables - that can, but need not be, lettres, creating words. Also, we remember that translations of scripture do not say “words” in plural, but “Word” singular, which strengthens the argument for using this definition when thinking of Logos here.


The Word in scripture refers to a code (like an equation, for instance) for the basis of all that is. It is a chosen pattern of interpretation, separating chaos from order and limiting what can and cannot be. Yet, it may only depict potential; not necessarily outcome (though determinists say it must).


If we choose to view the Word like this, then in scripture, it depicts the order of and basis for existence as we know it.

Humbly
Hermit

 

[Brian2]

The Greek word "logos" is used 256 times in the New Testament. As far as I can tell, with the exception of John 1:1 & 14, there would be few Christians that would say any of them refer to Jesus. They all are clearly seen as meaning a well thought out and reasoned communication using words, which happens to be the actual main definition in any Greek lexicon.

What makes it's usage in John indicate it means "Jesus?" Why couldn't it be consistent with all the other 252 usages and mean God's thoughts as spoken to mankind, that He had a plan in mind from the beginning which he revealed in the scriptures and which Jesus followed to the letter as per John 1:14?

Revelation 19:13 has a description of the Word of God who is also shown to be Jesus in the passage.
Maybe Hebrews 4: 12,13 also.

 

[rrobs]

Revelation 19:13 has a description of the Word of God who is also shown to be Jesus in the passage.
Maybe Hebrews 4: 12,13 also.

Good points, but we must look at Rev 19:13 very closely.

Rev 19:13,

And he [was] clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.​

It does not say, "And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood; and he is God."

It says, "...his name is called the Word of God." My name is Rich. While I am quite comfortable, I'm not loaded with money as my name may suggest. Most people have names that don't necessarily make them what their name is.

I don't see any reason to take Hebrews as saying anything other than God's word is quick and powerful. Read the first 2 verses in Hebrews chapter 1. They say that God gave His word via the prophets until Jesus was born. Jesus was a perfect representation of that word in that he obeyed his Father until the very end. That is also why he is called the image of God in a few places. An image of something automatically means it is not actually that something. Jesus showed the Pharisees a coin and asked whose image was on it. They correctly said, "Caesars." But was that image actually the real Caesar? Of course not! Same with Jesus being the image of God. Again, he is the image of God because he always did exactly what God wanted him to do, not because he is actually God. There is only one God, Yahweh. Jesus is called the son of God.

There is no such thing as a son being also his own father. There is no mention whatsoever of a God the Son in the scriptures. For such a moniker we must go outside of the scriptures to the Council of Nicea which was dominated by theologians who openly admitted to the task of harmonizing the scriptures with Greek philosophy. They were absolutely enamored by Plato and his ideas. The orthodox church doctrine is a mixture of scriptures and Greek philosophy. Even a cursory study of church history will reveal that to be the case.

Paul warned the early church about another Jesus whom he did not preach.

2Cor 11:4,

For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or [if] ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with [him].​

Sadly the orthodox church is still preaching that other Jesus whom Paul did not preach. They really need to wake up.

According to the trinity doctrine all three members have equal status. How does that work with:

1Cor 15:28,

And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
​

One part, personality, or whatever, of God is subjected to another part, personality, or whatever? Something's awry there.

Look at how things went for Israel when they worshiped false gods. It was pretty much like the state of affairs today. I believe that the world is in such turmoil because the orthodox Christian church is worshiping a false three part God. It's really that simple. We need to ditch the councils of Nicea and Constantinople and get back to the pureness of God's word and nothing but that word, i.e. the scriptures. Jesus said the scriptures were all about him (John 5:39, Luke 24:27) and that his purpose was to reveal the true God (John 17:6). We should listen.

God bless

 

[The Anointed]

Good points, but we must look at Rev 19:13 very closely.

Rev 19:13,

And he [was] clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.​

It does not say, "And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood; and he is God."

It says, "...his name is called the Word of God." My name is Rich. While I am quite comfortable, I'm not loaded with money as my name may suggest. Most people have names that don't necessarily make them what their name is.

I don't see any reason to take Hebrews as saying anything other than God's word is quick and powerful. Read the first 2 verses in Hebrews chapter 1. They say that God gave His word via the prophets until Jesus was born. Jesus was a perfect representation of that word in that he obeyed his Father until the very end. That is also why he is called the image of God in a few places. An image of something automatically means it is not actually that something. Jesus showed the Pharisees a coin and asked whose image was on it. They correctly said, "Caesars." But was that image actually the real Caesar? Of course not! Same with Jesus being the image of God. Again, he is the image of God because he always did exactly what God wanted him to do, not because he is actually God. There is only one God, Yahweh. Jesus is called the son of God.

There is no such thing as a son being also his own father. There is no mention whatsoever of a God the Son in the scriptures. For such a moniker we must go outside of the scriptures to the Council of Nicea which was dominated by theologians who openly admitted to the task of harmonizing the scriptures with Greek philosophy. They were absolutely enamored by Plato and his ideas. The orthodox church doctrine is a mixture of scriptures and Greek philosophy. Even a cursory study of church history will reveal that to be the case.

Paul warned the early church about another Jesus whom he did not preach.

2Cor 11:4,

For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or [if] ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with [him].​

Sadly the orthodox church is still preaching that other Jesus whom Paul did not preach. They really need to wake up.

According to the trinity doctrine all three members have equal status. How does that work with:

1Cor 15:28,

And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
​

One part, personality, or whatever, of God is subjected to another part, personality, or whatever? Something's awry there.

Look at how things went for Israel when they worshiped false gods. It was pretty much like the state of affairs today. I believe that the world is in such turmoil because the orthodox Christian church is worshiping a false three part God. It's really that simple. We need to ditch the councils of Nicea and Constantinople and get back to the pureness of God's word and nothing but that word, i.e. the scriptures. Jesus said the scriptures were all about him (John 5:39, Luke 24:27) and that his purpose was to reveal the true God (John 17:6). We should listen.

God bless

The first law of thermodynamics is the same as the first law of conservation and that is, that energy can neither be created or destroyed. So, it would seem that if energy cannot be created, then it always was, and If it can never be destroyed, it always will be. Therefore, according to this law, energy must be eternal, having neither beginning or end.

Energy can be and is converted to that which we perceive as matter. In fact, this apparent material universe at the time of the Big Bang, was pure electromagnetic energy, which, IMO, was spewed out of a WHITE Hole that was connected to a hyper Black Hole by an Einstein Rosen bridge or worm hole, into which a previous universal body had descended and was ripped apart, reconverting it to its original form as electromagnetic energy, that was accelerated along the worm hole at speeds far, far in excess of the speed of light and spewed out somewhere beyond the visible horizon of the cosmos, in the trillions upon trillions of degrees, which has been converted to that which we perceive as matter in this apparent expanding universe, only to be reconverted to its original form as electromagnetic energy during the phase of the Big Crunch.

If you believe that a universe of mindless matter has produced beings with intrinsic ends, [in Kantian terminology, an end-in-itself] --------- self- replication capabilities, and “coded chemistry”? Then you must now accept that it is the eternal energy, which has neither beginning or end, that has become this material universe and has developed a mind that is the compilation of all the information gathered by all the diverse life-forms that it [The Eternal Energy] has become, the collective consciousness of all that it is.

In fact, it has now been revealed that matter is no more than an illusion. Quantum physicists discovered that so called physical atoms are made up of vortices of energy that are constantly spinning and vibrating, each one radiating its own unique energy signature.

According to those physicists, if you observed the composition of an atom with a microscope you would see a small invisible tornado-like vortex, with a number of infinitely small energy vortices called quarks and photons. These are what make up the structure of the atom. As you focused in closer and closer on the structure of the atom, you would see nothing, you would observe a physical void. The atom has no physical structure, we have no physical structure, physical things really don’t have any physical structure! Atoms are made out of invisible energy, not tangible matter.

The following is from an article on Quantum Physics.

Nothing is solid & everything is energy: scientists explain the world of quantum physics

It has been written about before, over and over again, but cannot be emphasized enough. The world of quantum physics is an eerie one, one that sheds light on the truth about our world in ways that challenge the existing framework of accepted knowledge.

What we perceive as our physical material world, is really not physical or material at all, in fact, it is far from it. This has been proven time and time again by multiple Nobel Prize (among many other scientists around the world) winning physicists, one of them being Niels Bohr, a Danish Physicist who made significant contributions to understanding atomic structure and quantum theory, who wrote; “If quantum mechanics hasn’t profoundly shocked you, you haven’t understood it yet. Everything we call real is made of things that cannot be regarded as real.” – Niels Bohr.

Pioneering physicist Sir James Jeans wrote: “The stream of knowledge is heading toward a non-mechanical reality; the universe begins to look more like a ‘GREAT THOUGHT’ than like a great machine. Mind no longer appears to be an accidental intruder into the realm of matter, we ought rather hail it as ‘THE CREATOR’ and governor of the realm of matter. (R. C. Henry, “The Mental Universe”; Nature 436:29, 2005)

That ‘GREAT THOUGHT’ is the LOGOS God, who is the divine reality of the universe, the eternal spirit from which all being originates and to which all must return at the close of each period of universal activity.

The root to the word Brahman originally meant SPEECH, Brahman is the creator of the Hindus, and is one and the same as the WORD = the Logos; who is the Christians creator, the eternal gathering of information, which is expressed in each universal body. Brahman (Speech) as with Logos (Word) is the essential divine reality of the universe, the eternal evolving spirit from which all being originates and to who all being must return.

The LOGOS God, is today as he has always been. He is the only true constant in that he is constantly evolving. The only mind that has ceased to evolve, is the mind that has ceased to exist.

Shabda OR SHABDA STANDS FOR ‘WORD’ MANIFESTED BY SOUND [VERBAL]

Bhartrhari speaks about the creative power of shabda, the manifold universe is a creation of Shabda Brahman

The Rig Veda states that Brahman extends as far as Vāc (R.V.X.114.8), and has hymns in praise of ‘SPEECH AS THE CREATOR.’

The Greek word “LOGOS’ which has been translated as “WORD”, should be seen as ‘The thoughts in the mind which are to be expressed.

The term, “LOGOS” = ‘WORD, pertains to the very plan from the outset. [The creation of a universal body in which a Supreme mind or personality of Godhead to that body, develops.] In Sanskrit the similar meaning is given in the use of the word 'vac.' Vac means word. But in Sanskrit teachings of the Sanatana Dharma, vac has many levels. Including where the word is first considered as being in the mind as a thought, not as the spoken word or speech.

John 1: 1; In the beginning was the Logos and the Logos was with God and was God. And the supreme personality or controlling mind to have developed within the invisible eternal body of ever evolving information, was “THE LIGHT OF MAN” All the information, knowledge, wisdom and insight, gained from the body of mankind, the MOST HIGH in the previous creation, who was the Light and life of that ever-growing body of information, which is called God. All things came into existence through him, by him and for him. Without him, nothing exists.

Countless universal bodies have burst forth from Brahman=Logos and have retuned, to him, each one evolving a little higher than the previous body. The days and nights of Brahman are called manvantara and prayala, Manvantara refers to each period of universal activity and Pralaya refers to the periods of universal darkness or non-being according to our finite minds.

Every living thing within this apparent boundless cosmos, are merely information gatherers for the eternal energy, that Great Thought, which manifests itself as this living universe, which is all that exists. and is the collective consciousness of all that exists, there is nothing that you have ever done or will do in the future, that is not recorded within the ‘GREAT THOUGHT.’

This nano technology, it really frightens me
They can make a flying camera that looks just like a bee
Can spiders, ants, and house flies transmit the things I say
Can our words and all our actions be recorded every day?

I remember back when I was young, I’s no more’n a lad
Sometimes I’d be at home alone and doin something bad
And I’d turn mums crucifix around so He couldn’t see me do it
Now I think of all this nano stuff and I think I might have blew it

Once you understand that God is all, you’d have to be half blind
Not to realise that everything feeds into that great mind
All them spiders in the corners, ants in every crack and nook
Were filming everything I did---now it’s recorded in God’s book.

But that don’t really bother me, cos I know it’s tightly sealed
And only one’s allowed to open it---and you know? somehow I feel
He’s not the sort what runs around accusing everyone
And though He lives in me, one day I’ll be, in Him, ‘God’s only Son.’……… The Author.

 

[Brian2]

Good points, but we must look at Rev 19:13 very closely.

You seem to not know what the trinity doctrine is.
That's OK, and in fact I also do not know the ins and outs of it apart from things I have picked up over the years and which I have also found to be taught in the Bible.

 

[rrobs]

You seem to not know what the trinity doctrine is.
That's OK, and in fact I also do not know the ins and outs of it apart from things I have picked up over the years and which I have also found to be taught in the Bible.

I went to a Catholic school. One hour of religion classes, 5 days a week, for 12 years. I seldom got less than an "A" in the class. I know the trinity doctrine, and it has no relationship to anything in the Bible other than being a false god.

I quoted 1 Corinthians 15:28 that says as plain as day Jesus will be subject to God. The Greek word for "subject" means, "to put under or to subordinate."

Here is a quote from the Athanasian Creed, the definitive statement on the trinity, "But the whole three Persons are coeternal, and coequal."

One of these statements has to go. Do we get rid of Corinthians or the Athanasian Creed? I vote for dumping the Creed and going with the scriptures.

It is no wonder you don't know the ins and outs of the trinity. It makes no logical sense whatsoever. What's wrong with Jesus being the son of God? That's what the scriptures say over 50 time as opposed to 0 times that he is called God the Son.

Look at our country. Look at Israel when they worshiped a false god. The parallel is undeniable. Worshiping a false, three part God is no different than worshiping Baal. Unfortunately, that is exactly what the devil has tricked about 98% of Christians into doing. We are seeing the fruits of that, and it's not very pretty.

 

[Brian2]

I went to a Catholic school. One hour of religion classes, 5 days a week, for 12 years. I seldom got less than an "A" in the class. I know the trinity doctrine, and it has no relationship to anything in the Bible other than being a false god.

I quoted 1 Corinthians 15:28 that says as plain as day Jesus will be subject to God. The Greek word for "subject" means, "to put under or to subordinate."

Here is a quote from the Athanasian Creed, the definitive statement on the trinity, "But the whole three Persons are coeternal, and coequal."

One of these statements has to go. Do we get rid of Corinthians or the Athanasian Creed? I vote for dumping the Creed and going with the scriptures.

It is no wonder you don't know the ins and outs of the trinity. It makes no logical sense whatsoever. What's wrong with Jesus being the son of God? That's what the scriptures say over 50 time as opposed to 0 times that he is called God the Son.

Look at our country. Look at Israel when they worshiped a false god. The parallel is undeniable. Worshiping a false, three part God is no different than worshiping Baal. Unfortunately, that is exactly what the devil has tricked about 98% of Christians into doing. We are seeing the fruits of that, and it's not very pretty.

I went to Catholic schools for 12 years with religion classes but did not learn much about the trinity there, especially with it's relationship to the Bible and what was said there. As a young adult I ended up getting rather confused about it after contact with the JWs and had to do a bit of research. It has been an ongoing thing and many Biblical passages which confused me in the past are no longer a problem.
That the Son becomes subject to the Father in the end should not be any surprise since the Son is the Son after all and so is subject to His Father. That He became subject seems to mean that at the moment He is not subject to His Father. But of course that is no problem since the Son is exactly life His Father and does not do anything against His Father's will anyway.
"Equal" in relation to the trinity doctrine means having the same God nature. This is also what one would expect from a Father and Son and is also what one would expect from God's Spirit which we see in the Bible to be alive and have personality,,,,,,,,,,,,,as well as being called Yahweh.
I don't particularly like the terms "God the Father", "God the Son" and "God the Holy Spirit". They tend to create confusion and lead people to see 3 Gods instead of just the one God, the Father, who has His Son and Holy Spirit in Him.
There is nothing wrong with Jesus being called the Son of God. The real teaching of the Church however had to be established because of false teaching that were threatening to take over and so something more formal that defined the Son was needed and that definition is of a Son who is in and came from His Father. The Bible seems clear that the Son has not been created and in many ways seems to show that He is also Yahweh along with His Father. One God, 3 persons. We certainly don't need to understand the ins and outs of it in order to see it in the Bible.

 

[rrobs]

I went to Catholic schools for 12 years with religion classes but did not learn much about the trinity there, especially with it's relationship to the Bible and what was said there. As a young adult I ended up getting rather confused about it after contact with the JWs and had to do a bit of research. It has been an ongoing thing and many Biblical passages which confused me in the past are no longer a problem.
That the Son becomes subject to the Father in the end should not be any surprise since the Son is the Son after all and so is subject to His Father. That He became subject seems to mean that at the moment He is not subject to His Father. But of course that is no problem since the Son is exactly life His Father and does not do anything against His Father's will anyway.
"Equal" in relation to the trinity doctrine means having the same God nature. This is also what one would expect from a Father and Son and is also what one would expect from God's Spirit which we see in the Bible to be alive and have personality,,,,,,,,,,,,,as well as being called Yahweh.
I don't particularly like the terms "God the Father", "God the Son" and "God the Holy Spirit". They tend to create confusion and lead people to see 3 Gods instead of just the one God, the Father, who has His Son and Holy Spirit in Him.
There is nothing wrong with Jesus being called the Son of God. The real teaching of the Church however had to be established because of false teaching that were threatening to take over and so something more formal that defined the Son was needed and that definition is of a Son who is in and came from His Father. The Bible seems clear that the Son has not been created and in many ways seems to show that He is also Yahweh along with His Father. One God, 3 persons. We certainly don't need to understand the ins and outs of it in order to see it in the Bible.

Your mention of nature caught my eye. You said correctly that Jesus has the same nature as God. But, be careful. Does having the same nature mean Jesus actually is God?

Gen 1:12,

And the earth brought forth grass, [and] herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed [was] in itself, after his kind: and God saw that [it was] good.
​

An oak seed produces another oak tree with the same nature as it "parent", an apple seed produces an apple tree with the same nature as its "parent." The same goes for animals. Even a lizard seed (sperm) produces another lizard with the same nature as its parent.

God told Adam and Eve to populate the world and the only way that could be done was for Adam to put his seed (sperm) into Mary's womb. That would produce another human with the same nature as its parents. On and on it went until we have 7,000,000,000 humans with the exact same nature as Adam and Eve, their ultimate parent. Unfortunately for all 7,000,000,000 folks, part of that nature included sin. Because of that we all die. That's the problem Jesus came to solve.

But what about Jesus? Was he any different than all other humans, and if so how? Mary was a virgin. Joseph did not implant his seed in her womb before Jesus was born. Instead God miraculously created a seed that was not tainted with the same sin nature (i.e. that of Adam) as the seed of all other humans. That meant Jesus, unlike all other humans, was born with pure blood which is what God required for the ultimate sacrifice to redeem us. The Passover lamb must be a lamb without blemish. As long as Jesus remained sinless, he would qualify as the lamb without blemish.

Jesus, being a man, could have sinned. The scriptures declare that he was tempted just like the rest of us. If you knew you were God, would your temptations be anything at all like the rest of the human race? I think knowing I was God, would make me impervious to any and all temptation. So if Jesus were God, his temptation would hardly be anything at all like ours, which the scriptures say is the case. That is a huge problem that must be solved by anyone who thinks Jesus is God. It can easily be solved by confessing, as the scriptures declare, that Jesus is the son of God.

There is no indication whatsoever in the scriptures that ask us to change the normal meaning of "father" or "son." It is clear that a father and his son can in no wise be one and the same person. Throwing around terms like "essence" does not change the fact that a father and his son are two separate and unique individuals, albeit they both share the same nature. A human father would produce a son with a human nature. Likewise, a Godly father would produce a son with a Godly nature. It's incredibly simple. The confusion lies in trying to make a father and son one and the same individual.

Getting back to the idea that Jesus had a divine nature, I would only point out a verse in Hebrews.

2 Pet 1:4,

Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
​

Did you know you also had a divine nature? Well, if not, now you do, because Peter wasn't using any big fancy words when he wrote this verse. it's about an 8th grade reading level, and it says as plain as day that you, as a born again believe, have the divine nature! Fantastic truth!

But think about it; are you not called a son of God? That's what 1 John 3:2 plainly says. Being a son of God, you, like the offspring of anything, have the same nature as your Father in heaven! What a fantastic truth.

In general the truth is light years ahead of tradition, which frankly is what 90% of orthodox doctrine really is. There are so many doctrinal points the church espouses that are in fact contrary to the truth as found in the scriptures. Mixing up the two main characters in the best story ever told, renders it all but unintelligible. You yourself said you're confused.

I would like to suggest you check out:

Home | The Living Truth Fellowship

There you can find the scriptures explained in a way I've never seen before. They handle in minute detail such subjects as who Jesus is, what holy spirit is, what happens after death, and much more. Give it a visit and then go Berean by studying the scriptures to see if what they say is true or not (Acts 17:11).

I know it is taught that we can not understand God. That is what the churches teach, but it is yet another orthodox doctrinal point that does not agree with the scriptures.

Col 1:9,

For this cause we also, since the day we heard [it], do not cease to pray for you, and to desire that ye might be filled with the knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding;​

Filled is filled. Something that is filled has no more room. God wants you to be filled with knowledge. That doesn't sound at all like God is telling us to, "take it by faith." It only makes sense. How are you going to have true faith (trust) in something you don't even understand? Trust requires understanding. God wants us to understand.

1 Cor 2:16,

For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.
​

Jesus had no trouble understanding his Father. Why should we?

God bless you brother!

 

[The Anointed]

Response to post #151.

Isaiah 7: 14; Erroneous KJV translation; “Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: behold the ‘Virgin’ shall conceive and bear a son, (Future tense: ‘Shall Conceive.’) and shall call his name Emmanuel.”

Isaiah 7: 14; Jewish Translation: “Therefore the Lord, of his own, shall give you a sign; behold the Almah = ‘YOUNG WOMAN’ is with child, (Present tense: Is with child) and she shall bear a son and she shall call his name Immanuel.”

In translating the Hebrew words of the prophet Isaiah, that an “Almah” an “unmarried female” would be with child and bear a son,” into Greek, which unlike the Hebrew language, does not have a specific term for ‘virgin,’ the authors of the Septuagint and The Gospel of Matthew, which was originally written in Hebrew, correctly used the Greek word ‘Parthenos,’ which carries a basic meaning of ‘girl,’ or unmarried youth, and denotes ‘virgin’ only by implication.

‘Parthenos,’ was often used in reference to non-virgins who had never been married. Homer uses it in reference to unmarried girls who were no longer virgins, and Homer was the standard textbook for learning Greek all throughout antiquity, so any writer of Greek, including the authors of the Septuagint and Matthew, who translated Isaiah’s words, that (An unmarried woman would be with child etc) while being well aware of this words versatile and indefinite meaning; were in no way implying that Mary was a virgin when they were forced to use the Greek term ‘Parthenos’ in translating Isiah 7: 14.

When the young Parthenos ‘Mary’ at the age of thirteen, was told by the messenger of God that she would become pregnant and bear as son, who God would make King as his ancestor David was; the young Parthenos answered, “How can that be, as I have never known a man,” thereby implying that the young Parthenos ‘Mary,’ was still a virgin at that particular time, because it was not until she returned, months later from her visit with her Aunty Elizabeth, that she was found to be pregnant to her half-brother Joseph the son of Heli.

To translate something from the Hebrew to the Greek, or from any language to another, one must not lose the essence of the original, and the original was, that “An unmarried woman would be with child.”

“The Greek word parthenos (παρθένος) is ambiguous but the Hebrew term “Almah”[Unmarried Female] is absolute, and is erroneously translated from Isaiah 7: 14, to Greek in Matthew 1:23; as “virgin,” whereas according to Young’s Analytical Concordance to the Bible, the Hebrew term “Almah,” carries the meaning, (Concealment---unmarried female.)”

Even though the Roman church of Emperor Constantine believed and taught that the mother of Jesus was an ever virgin, the word “Virgin” in reference to the mother of Jesus was not introduced until the Latin Bible ‘The Vulgate’ was translated to English, when the Latin word ‘VIRGO’ was translated to Virgin. For just like the early Greek language, the Latin did not have a specific term for ‘VIRGIN’, their word “Virgo” refers to any young woman of marriageable age, whether or not she had previous sexual relations with a man.

In 1973, an ecumenical edition of RSV was approved by both Protestant and Catholic hierarchies, called the common bible. A New English Translation of the Bible, published in 1970 and approved by the council of churches in England, Scotland, Wales, the Irish council of churches, the London Society of Friends, and the Methodist and Presbyterian churches of England, all translate Isaiah 7: 14; “A young Woman ‘is with child,’ and she will bear a son.”

Also, the Good News Bible, Catholic Study Edition, with imprimatur by Archbishop John Whealon reads, Isaiah 7: 14; “A young woman who is pregnant will have a son, etc.”

As all these religious bodies now accept that Isaiah was not referring to a virgin in that famous passage, they must now accept that the authors of the Septuagint and The Gospel of Matthew, who were forced to use the Greek term “Parthenos” in reference to Isaiah’s prophecy, were in no way implying that the pregnant Mary, was still a virgin, and Matthew 1: 22-23; should now read; ‘Now all this happened to make come true what the Lord had said through the prophet [Isaiah],’ “An unmarried woman/Almah who is pregnant will bear a son and he will be called Immanuel: (“which means God is with us.”)

According to the Hebrew belief, an Almah could be a virgin, but an almah who is pregnant could in no way still be a virgin.

The Hebrew has a specific term for a virgin, which is “BETHULAH’ and refers to any woman who has never had sexual intercourse, and was the word that Isaiah would have used if it was the intention of the lord to convey the message that, “A virgin would be with child.”

The point of the prophecy is not in the fact that an unmarried woman would bear a son, but that a child conceived out of wedlock would be seen as the vessel in which the Lord would reveal himself to us, (“God is with us.”)

The false teaching of the so-called virgin birth, originated with the erroneous translation of Isaiah 7: 14.

 

[rrobs]

Response to post #151.

Isaiah 7: 14; Erroneous KJV translation; “Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: behold the ‘Virgin’ shall conceive and bear a son, (Future tense: ‘Shall Conceive.’) and shall call his name Emmanuel.”

Isaiah 7: 14; Jewish Translation: “Therefore the Lord, of his own, shall give you a sign; behold the Almah = ‘YOUNG WOMAN’ is with child, (Present tense: Is with child) and she shall bear a son and she shall call his name Immanuel.”

In translating the Hebrew words of the prophet Isaiah, that an “Almah” an “unmarried female” would be with child and bear a son,” into Greek, which unlike the Hebrew language, does not have a specific term for ‘virgin,’ the authors of the Septuagint and The Gospel of Matthew, which was originally written in Hebrew, correctly used the Greek word ‘Parthenos,’ which carries a basic meaning of ‘girl,’ or unmarried youth, and denotes ‘virgin’ only by implication.

‘Parthenos,’ was often used in reference to non-virgins who had never been married. Homer uses it in reference to unmarried girls who were no longer virgins, and Homer was the standard textbook for learning Greek all throughout antiquity, so any writer of Greek, including the authors of the Septuagint and Matthew, who translated Isaiah’s words, that (An unmarried woman would be with child etc) while being well aware of this words versatile and indefinite meaning; were in no way implying that Mary was a virgin when they were forced to use the Greek term ‘Parthenos’ in translating Isiah 7: 14.

When the young Parthenos ‘Mary’ at the age of thirteen, was told by the messenger of God that she would become pregnant and bear as son, who God would make King as his ancestor David was; the young Parthenos answered, “How can that be, as I have never known a man,” thereby implying that the young Parthenos ‘Mary,’ was still a virgin at that particular time, because it was not until she returned, months later from her visit with her Aunty Elizabeth, that she was found to be pregnant to her half-brother Joseph the son of Heli.

To translate something from the Hebrew to the Greek, or from any language to another, one must not lose the essence of the original, and the original was, that “An unmarried woman would be with child.”

“The Greek word parthenos (παρθένος) is ambiguous but the Hebrew term “Almah”[Unmarried Female] is absolute, and is erroneously translated from Isaiah 7: 14, to Greek in Matthew 1:23; as “virgin,” whereas according to Young’s Analytical Concordance to the Bible, the Hebrew term “Almah,” carries the meaning, (Concealment---unmarried female.)”

Even though the Roman church of Emperor Constantine believed and taught that the mother of Jesus was an ever virgin, the word “Virgin” in reference to the mother of Jesus was not introduced until the Latin Bible ‘The Vulgate’ was translated to English, when the Latin word ‘VIRGO’ was translated to Virgin. For just like the early Greek language, the Latin did not have a specific term for ‘VIRGIN’, their word “Virgo” refers to any young woman of marriageable age, whether or not she had previous sexual relations with a man.

In 1973, an ecumenical edition of RSV was approved by both Protestant and Catholic hierarchies, called the common bible. A New English Translation of the Bible, published in 1970 and approved by the council of churches in England, Scotland, Wales, the Irish council of churches, the London Society of Friends, and the Methodist and Presbyterian churches of England, all translate Isaiah 7: 14; “A young Woman ‘is with child,’ and she will bear a son.”

Also, the Good News Bible, Catholic Study Edition, with imprimatur by Archbishop John Whealon reads, Isaiah 7: 14; “A young woman who is pregnant will have a son, etc.”

As all these religious bodies now accept that Isaiah was not referring to a virgin in that famous passage, they must now accept that the authors of the Septuagint and The Gospel of Matthew, who were forced to use the Greek term “Parthenos” in reference to Isaiah’s prophecy, were in no way implying that the pregnant Mary, was still a virgin, and Matthew 1: 22-23; should now read; ‘Now all this happened to make come true what the Lord had said through the prophet [Isaiah],’ “An unmarried woman/Almah who is pregnant will bear a son and he will be called Immanuel: (“which means God is with us.”)

According to the Hebrew belief, an Almah could be a virgin, but an almah who is pregnant could in no way still be a virgin.

The Hebrew has a specific term for a virgin, which is “BETHULAH’ and refers to any woman who has never had sexual intercourse, and was the word that Isaiah would have used if it was the intention of the lord to convey the message that, “A virgin would be with child.”

The point of the prophecy is not in the fact that an unmarried woman would bear a son, but that a child conceived out of wedlock would be seen as the vessel in which the Lord would reveal himself to us, (“God is with us.”)

The false teaching of the so-called virgin birth, originated with the erroneous translation of Isaiah 7: 14.

Thanks for the clarification. All good stuff and yes, yes, yes about understanding words from the perspective of those to whom they were given, i.e. Jews. I was just trying to keep things simple.

By whose seed do you think Jesus was born, Man's or one created by God? That was the point of my post #151. If he were born by man's seed, he would have been born with the corrupted seed of Adam. Hence he could have in no wise been the lamb without blemish. He would have been blemished right out of the gate, or the womb in this case. However, if he were a product of a perfect seed God created, then he would have a chance on being that lamb without blemish. All he had to do was never sin!

In any case, since he was born by a seed of God, he was naturally the son of God and would naturally have a divine nature. I also pointed out that we also, being sons of God, also have a divine nature as per 2 Peter 1:4. Having a divine nature does not actually make one God, neither Jesus nor us. Even a lizard has the same nature as its parent. Nothing mystical or hard to understand at all.

It only gets complicated when we say, as does the Athnesian Creed, that, "there is a God the Father, A God the Son, and a God the Holy Ghost. And yet there are not three Gods, but one God." Whoa...we gotta throw out every ounce of logic and meaning of simple words to say that! The human mind is simply not wired to really believe such a deceleration. Technically, nobody actually "believes" in the trinity. It does not compute and therefor can not be trusted. God wants us to know, not be confused.

God bless

 

[The Anointed]

Thanks for the clarification. All good stuff and yes, yes, yes about understanding words from the perspective of those to whom they were given, i.e. Jews. I was just trying to keep things simple.

By whose seed do you think Jesus was born, Man's or one created by God? That was the point of my post #151. If he were born by man's seed, he would have been born with the corrupted seed of Adam. Hence he could have in no wise been the lamb without blemish. He would have been blemished right out of the gate, or the womb in this case. However, if he were a product of a perfect seed God created, then he would have a chance on being that lamb without blemish. All he had to do was never sin!

In any case, since he was born by a seed of God, he was naturally the son of God and would naturally have a divine nature. I also pointed out that we also, being sons of God, also have a divine nature as per 2 Peter 1:4. Having a divine nature does not actually make one God, neither Jesus nor us. Even a lizard has the same nature as its parent. Nothing mystical or hard to understand at all.

It only gets complicated when we say, as does the Athnesian Creed, that, "there is a God the Father, A God the Son, and a God the Holy Ghost. And yet there are not three Gods, but one God." Whoa...we gotta throw out every ounce of logic and meaning of simple words to say that! The human mind is simply not wired to really believe such a deceleration. Technically, nobody actually "believes" in the trinity. It does not compute and therefor can not be trusted. God wants us to know, not be confused.

God bless

The messenger of God told Mary from the tribe of Levi, that she would become pregnant and bear a son who would be a genetic descendant of King David from the tribe of Judah,

Come back when you have reconciled that with the false teaching of some supposed virgin birth?

 

[The Anointed]

The messenger of God told Mary from the tribe of Levi, that she would become pregnant and bear a son who would be a genetic descendant of King David from the tribe of Judah,

Come back when you have reconciled that with the false teaching of some supposed virgin birth?

Hebrews 7: 11; It was on the basis of the levitical priesthood that the Law was given to the people of Israel. Now, if the work of the levitical priests had been perfect, there would have been no need for a different kind of priest to appear, one who is in the priestly order of Melchizedek, not of Aaron. 12For when the priesthood is changed, there also has to be a change in the law. 13And our Lord, of whom these things are said, belonged to a different tribe, and no member of his tribe ever served as a priest. 14It is well known that he was born a member of the tribe of Judah; and Moses did not mention this tribe when he spoke of priests.

How could Jesus, who was the son of a Levite girl, be a member of the tribe of Judah?

Because he was the biological son of Joseph the son of Heli, who is a genetic descendant of Nathan the son of King David through Bathsheba. See Luke 3: 23-31.

 

[rrobs]

The messenger of God told Mary from the tribe of Levi, that she would become pregnant and bear a son who would be a genetic descendant of King David from the tribe of Judah,

Come back when you have reconciled that with the false teaching of some supposed virgin birth?

You come back when you reconcile the false teaching of Jesus supposedly being God!

There, we've shut off all dialogue.

BTW, did you not understand I said you were right about the virgin birth, that I was just trying to not introduce too many non-orthodox ideas at once?

 

[The Anointed]

You come back when you reconcile the false teaching of Jesus supposedly being God!

There, we've shut off all dialogue.

BTW, did you not understand I said you were right about the virgin birth, that I was just trying to not introduce too many non-orthodox ideas at once?

No one can reconcile the false teaching of Jesus supposedly being God, with the Holy Scriptures, as that teaching is to be found nowhere in the words of the Lord.

Rob wrote...... BTW, did you not understand I said you were right about the virgin birth, that I was just trying to not introduce too many non-orthodox ideas at once?

These are your words from post #153 Rob;

By whose seed do you think Jesus was born, Man's or one created by God? That was the point of my post #151. If he were born by man's seed, he would have been born with the corrupted seed of Adam. Hence he could have in no wise been the lamb without blemish. He would have been blemished right out of the gate, or the womb in this case. However, if he were a product of a perfect seed God created, then he would have a chance on being that lamb without blemish. All he had to do was never sin!

There you Suggest that the Lamb of God, could not have been born of human parents who were descended from Adam. You then went on to say;

In any case, since he (The man Jesus) 'WAS' born by a seed of God, he was naturally the son of God and would naturally have a divine nature.

Here you confirm that you don't believe that Jesus was born of the seed of a human father.

And yes, we can be born the children of God, but not from some miraculous seed of God, but in the same way that Jesus, who was born of human parents, and later born a Son of God, not by blood, nor by the will of the flesh nor by man, but by the spirit of the Lord which descended upon him in the form of a dove on the day he was baptised, as the heavenly voice was heard to say; "You are my Son. (My chosen heir and successor) THIS DAY I have begotten thee, or as said in Hebrews 5: 5; "You are my Son, TODAY I have become your Father.

Moses asked God for his name in order that he might be able to tell the Israelites in Egypt, who had sent him. And God said; See Exodus 3: 14; "I Am Who I Am/YHVH." You must tell them: 'The one who is called "I AM/JHVH" has sent me to you.' Tell the Israelites that I, the Lord, the God of their ancestors, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, have sent you to them.

Deuteronomy 18: 18-19; YHVH, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, says to Moses; "I will send them a prophet like you from among their own people; I will put MY WORDS in his mouth, and he and he shall speak to them all that I command, and whosoever will not heed MY WORDS, which he shall speak in MY NAME, I will punish, etc.

Peter confirms that Jesus was that man, when, concerning the man Jesus, he says in. Acts 3: 22; For Moses said; "The Lord your God will send you a prophet, just as he sent me, and he will be one of your own people, etc."

Did the people of his day believe that he was the Lord, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. The God of our ancestors? No, they did not, for on the day of his triumphant entry into Jerusalem, the people escorting him cried out, "BLESSED IS HE WHO COMES IN THE NAME OF THE LORD" Verifying that they believed Jesus to be the one that God had promised that he would choose from among the Israelites, and send to the people to speak in his name.

John 5: 24; "Whoever hears my words, (Which were the Words of YHVH/Who I Am, that he commanded the man that he had chosen from among the people, to speak in his name) and believes in “HIM” who sent me, has eternal life.

Acts 3:19; “Repent then and turn to God, (Not to Jesus, but to God) so that He (God) will forgive your sins. If you do, times of spiritual strength will come from the Lord, and He will send Jesus, who is the Messiah that he has already CHOSEN for you.” The man Jesus, was chosen and made both Lord and saviour by “Who I Am”.

Acts 3:13; The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the God of our ancestors has given divine glory to his servant Jesus.

Act 17: 31; For he (The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.) has fixed a day in which he will judge the whole world with justice by means of a man he has chosen. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising that man from death.

Isaiah 42: 1; The Lord says, "Here is my servant, whom I strengthen---the one I have CHOSEN, with whom I am pleased. I have filled him with my spirit (Which descended upon him in the form of a dove, as the heavenly voice was heard to say, "You are my beloved in whom I am pleased, TODAY I have become your Father.) and he will bring justice to every nation.

1st Timothy 1:1; “From Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by order of “GOD OUR SAVIOUR” and Christ Jesus “OUR HOPE.”

John 14: 24; “And the word which you hear is not mine, but ‘THE’ Fathers who sent me. Not “MY Father” but ‘THE’ Father of us all: “Our Father who is in heaven.”

Jesus said to Mary Magdalen in John 20: 17; “Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, 'I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.'"

The man Jesus was the earthly Temple in which the Lord God our savior, (The Son of Man) who is the sacrifice that our heavenly Father has prepared for us, Revealed himself to us and the awesome sacrifice he pay for the sins of the body in which he developed.

Whose words were these in reference to the body of Jesus which had been filled by the spirit=information=words of the Lord, which had descended upon him in the form of a dove? “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up?”

They were the words that Jesus was commanded to say by “Who I Am,” who raised the body of Jesus, the earthly temple, which had been filled with his spirit.

Acts 5: 30; The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom you slew and hanged on a tree.

Acts 13: 30; But God raised him from the dead: and he was seen many days of them which came up with him from Galilee, etc.

1st Corinthians 6: 14; And God has both raised up the Lord, and will also raise up us by his own power.

2nd Corinthians 1: 9; But we had the sentence of death in ourselves, that we should not trust in ourselves, but in God which raiseth the dead.

2nd Corinthians 4: 14; knowing that he who raised the Lord Jesus will raise us also with Jesus and bring us with you into his presence.

Acts 17: 31; For He (The Lord God our saviour) has fixed a day in which he shall judge the whole world with justice by means of a MAN he has CHOSEN. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising that MAN from death.

As I have said from the beginning; "No one can reconcile the false teaching of Jesus supposedly being God, with the Holy Scriptures, as that teaching is to be found nowhere in the words of the Lord."

 

[rrobs]

No one can reconcile the false teaching of Jesus supposedly being God, with the Holy Scriptures, as that teaching is to be found nowhere in the words of the Lord.

Rob wrote...... BTW, did you not understand I said you were right about the virgin birth, that I was just trying to not introduce too many non-orthodox ideas at once?

These are your words from post #153 Rob;

By whose seed do you think Jesus was born, Man's or one created by God? That was the point of my post #151. If he were born by man's seed, he would have been born with the corrupted seed of Adam. Hence he could have in no wise been the lamb without blemish. He would have been blemished right out of the gate, or the womb in this case. However, if he were a product of a perfect seed God created, then he would have a chance on being that lamb without blemish. All he had to do was never sin!

There you Suggest that the Lamb of God, could not have been born of human parents who were descended from Adam. You then went on to say;

In any case, since he (The man Jesus) 'WAS' born by a seed of God, he was naturally the son of God and would naturally have a divine nature.

Here you confirm that you don't believe that Jesus was born of the seed of a human father.

And yes, we can be born the children of God, but not from some miraculous seed of God, but in the same way that Jesus, who was born of human parents, and later born a Son of God, not by blood, nor by the will of the flesh nor by man, but by the spirit of the Lord which descended upon him in the form of a dove on the day he was baptised, as the heavenly voice was heard to say; "You are my Son. (My chosen heir and successor) THIS DAY I have begotten thee, or as said in Hebrews 5: 5; "You are my Son, TODAY I have become your Father.

All good stuff.

Luke 1:34-35,

34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?

35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.​

What does that mean?

 

[The Anointed]

All good stuff.

Luke 1:34-35,

34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?

35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.​

What does that mean?

And Jesus was the son of our lord God and savior, 'The Son of man' who descended from his heights in time and was chosen by Abraham as his God, who said to him, "In blessing I will bless you, and in multiplying, I will multiply you.

YHVH, The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, said to Moses in Deuteronomy 18: 18-19; "I will send them a prophet like you from among their own people; I will put MY WORDS in his mouth, and he and he shall speak to them all that I command, and whosoever will not heed MY WORDS, which he shall speak in MY NAME, I will punish, etc.

My words are spirit said the Lord through his servant Jesus, and it was the spirit of our Lord God and savior, which descended upon the man Jesus on the day he was baptised, as the heavenly voice was heard to say; "You are my son, This Day I have begotten thee," Or as said in Hebrew 5: 5; "You are my son, TODAY I have become your Father."

Because the churches have now admitted that Isaiah never did say that a virgin would be with child and bear a son, but instead, said that an 'almah' (An unmarried woman) would be with child and bear a son, and knowing that an almah could still be seen as a virgin, that is, except for an unmarried woman who is pregnant, in no way could she still be a virgin.

Matthew 1: 23; should now read; "All this happened in order to make come true the words of the prophet; "An unmarried woman who is pregnant will bears a son and he will be named Emmanuel, which means God is with us, Which he was when he was filled with the spirit of our Lord God and savior on the day he was baptised.

Mark, who is believed to be the son of Peter, and John, the beloved disciple of Jesus, both ignore his physical birth as being totally irrelevant to the story of our salvation, and begin their account with the baptism of Jesus, when he was filled with the spirit of the Lord, as prophesied in Isaiah 42: 1; The LORD says, “Here is my servant, whom I strengthen — the one I have CHOSEN, with whom I am pleased. I have filled him with my Spirit, and he will bring justice to every nation.

Luke 9: 28-35; About a week after he had said these things, Jesus took Peter, John, and James with him and went up a hill to pray. While he was praying, his face changed its appearance, and his clothes became dazzling white. Suddenly two men were there talking with him. They were Moses and Elijah, who appeared in heavenly glory and talked with Jesus about the way in which he would soon fulfil God's purpose by dying in Jerusalem. Peter and his companions were sound asleep, (Or as Matthew says, They were heavy with sleep) but they woke up and saw Jesus' glory and the two men who were standing with him. As the men were leaving Jesus, Peter said to him, “Master, how good it is that we are here! We will make three tents, one for you, one for Moses, and one for Elijah.” (He did not really know what he was saying.)

While he was still speaking, a cloud appeared and covered them with its shadow; and the disciples were afraid as the cloud came over them. A voice said from the cloud, “This is my Son, whom I have CHOSEN— listen to
him!”

Luke 3:23; (KJV) And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli. The (AS WAS SUPPOSED) in brackets, was a later interpolation by those who would have you believe the false teaching of the so-called virgin birth.

In the different translations of the KJV into Arabic, Afrikaan, Zulu, etc and even some of the more modern English translations, such as the Good News Catholic Study Edition Bible, the words (As was supposed) have been retained, but the brackets are removed, thus by, making those words appear to be the declaration of Luke, while the serious biblical student know that they were not written by Luke, but were a later interpolation and a corruption of the Holy Scriptures, by those Christians, who refuse to accept that Jesus was not a God who became a man, but a man, born of human parents, who was later CHOSEN by the Lord our saviour ‘The Son of Man,’ as his heir and successor.

This verse; Luke 3:22; which now reads; “Thou art my beloved son in whom I am pleased,” was also changed by those who want you to believe that Jesus was not born of the flesh by two human parents and Later, on the day of his baptism, born of the spirit of our Lord God and saviour, ‘The Son of MAN’ and the MOST HIGH in the creation, when the spirit of our Lord descended upon him in the form of a dove

In Luke 3: 22; (In place of “Thou art my beloved son in who I am well pleased.”) The following authorities of the second, third, and fourth centuries read, “This day I have begotten thee,” vouched for by Codex D, and the most ancient copies of the old latin (a, b. c. ff.I), by Justin Martyr (AD 140), Clemens Alex, (AD. 190), Methodius (AD. 290), among the Greeks. And among the Latins, Lactaitius (AD 300), Hilary (AD) Juvencus (AD. 330), Faustus (AD. 400) and Augustine. All these oldest manuscripts were changed completely. They now read, “This is my son in whom I am well pleased.” Whereas the original variant was, “Thou art my Son. This day I have begotten thee.”

Joseph was a very common name in the days of Jesus and remains so even today. The Joseph ben Jacob, who married the already pregnant Mary and whose genealogy is recorded in Matthew 1, is an entirely different person than the Joseph ben Heli=Alexander Helios, the biological father of Jesus, who is recorded in Luke 3.

Matt 1:18-25: (18) This is how the birth of Jesus Christ came about: His mother Mary was pledged to be married to Joseph [The son of Jacob], but before they came together, she was found to be with child through the power of the Holy Spirit.

It was through the power or the workings of the Holy Spirit, that the child Jesus was born. Now we read of Isaac the child of God’s promise to Abraham, and see that Isaac was also born through the power, or the workings of the Holy Spirit as seen in Galatians 4: 29; where it is written, “Yet at that time the child born according to the flesh (Ishmael) persecuted him (Isaac) who was born according to the promise and the workings of the holy spirit.” It was through the workings of the Holy Spirit that the barren Sarah conceived the child of God’s promise, who was the biological son of her half-brother Abraham. And it was through the power=workings of the Holy Spirit that Mary conceived the child of God’s promise, who was the biological son of her half-brother, ‘Joseph the son of Alexander Helios.’

“The scriptures reveal that Mary was the daughter of Heli=Alexander Helios and Anna/Hanna, who was one of the three elderly daughters of Yehoshua/Jesus III, who was high priest in Jerusalem from 36 to 23 BC. The elderly 70 year-old Anna/Hanna, whose mother was ‘phanuel’ from the tribe of Asher, was given as a bride to Alexander Helios (Heli), and Jesus is the son of “Joseph, the son of Heli.”

Just as Isaac, the promised seed of Abraham was born through the union of Abraham and his half-sister Sarah, according to the workings of the Holy Spirit, and Sarah was told by an angel/man that she was to become pregnant, so too, the man Jesus, the reality of God’s promise to Abraham, was born according to the workings of the Holy Spirit and born of the union of Mary and her half-brother Joseph, who were both sired by Heli=Alexander Helios III.

Presumably, Joseph the son of Heli, would have been introduced to Mary for the first time at the gathering of the family and friends of Elizabeth the sister of anna/Anna, and the aged aunty of Mary, who were of the daughters of Levi. This was some months after the young “parthenos” (Unmarried) Mary had told the angel=man [Angel=Messenger of God] that up until that point in time she had never had any sexual relations with a man. Implying that the unmarried girl, “Almah=Parthenos” was still a virgin, before she met Joseph the young son of her father, Alexander Helios.

Whoops! Gotta go, the brother Just rang and he needs helpr with his dam pump. Catchya later/

 

[rrobs]

And Jesus was the son of our lord God and savior, 'The Son of man' who descended from his heights in time and was chosen by Abraham as his God, who said to him, "In blessing I will bless you, and in multiplying, I will multiply you.

YHVH, The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, said to Moses in Deuteronomy 18: 18-19; "I will send them a prophet like you from among their own people; I will put MY WORDS in his mouth, and he and he shall speak to them all that I command, and whosoever will not heed MY WORDS, which he shall speak in MY NAME, I will punish, etc.

My words are spirit said the Lord through his servant Jesus, and it was the spirit of our Lord God and savior, which descended upon the man Jesus on the day he was baptised, as the heavenly voice was heard to say; "You are my son, This Day I have begotten thee," Or as said in Hebrew 5: 5; "You are my son, TODAY I have become your Father."

Because the churches have now admitted that Isaiah never did say that a virgin would be with child and bear a son, but instead, said that an 'almah' (An unmarried woman) would be with child and bear a son, and knowing that an almah could still be seen as a virgin, that is, except for an unmarried woman who is pregnant, in no way could she still be a virgin.

Matthew 1: 23; should now read; "All this happened in order to make come true the words of the prophet; "An unmarried woman who is pregnant will bears a son and he will be named Emmanuel, which means God is with us, Which he was when he was filled with the spirit of our Lord God and savior on the day he was baptised.

Mark, who is believed to be the son of Peter, and John, the beloved disciple of Jesus, both ignore his physical birth as being totally irrelevant to the story of our salvation, and begin their account with the baptism of Jesus, when he was filled with the spirit of the Lord, as prophesied in Isaiah 42: 1; The LORD says, “Here is my servant, whom I strengthen — the one I have CHOSEN, with whom I am pleased. I have filled him with my Spirit, and he will bring justice to every nation.

Luke 9: 28-35; About a week after he had said these things, Jesus took Peter, John, and James with him and went up a hill to pray. While he was praying, his face changed its appearance, and his clothes became dazzling white. Suddenly two men were there talking with him. They were Moses and Elijah, who appeared in heavenly glory and talked with Jesus about the way in which he would soon fulfil God's purpose by dying in Jerusalem. Peter and his companions were sound asleep, (Or as Matthew says, They were heavy with sleep) but they woke up and saw Jesus' glory and the two men who were standing with him. As the men were leaving Jesus, Peter said to him, “Master, how good it is that we are here! We will make three tents, one for you, one for Moses, and one for Elijah.” (He did not really know what he was saying.)

While he was still speaking, a cloud appeared and covered them with its shadow; and the disciples were afraid as the cloud came over them. A voice said from the cloud, “This is my Son, whom I have CHOSEN— listen to
him!”

Luke 3:23; (KJV) And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli. The (AS WAS SUPPOSED) in brackets, was a later interpolation by those who would have you believe the false teaching of the so-called virgin birth.

In the different translations of the KJV into Arabic, Afrikaan, Zulu, etc and even some of the more modern English translations, such as the Good News Catholic Study Edition Bible, the words (As was supposed) have been retained, but the brackets are removed, thus by, making those words appear to be the declaration of Luke, while the serious biblical student know that they were not written by Luke, but were a later interpolation and a corruption of the Holy Scriptures, by those Christians, who refuse to accept that Jesus was not a God who became a man, but a man, born of human parents, who was later CHOSEN by the Lord our saviour ‘The Son of Man,’ as his heir and successor.

This verse; Luke 3:22; which now reads; “Thou art my beloved son in whom I am pleased,” was also changed by those who want you to believe that Jesus was not born of the flesh by two human parents and Later, on the day of his baptism, born of the spirit of our Lord God and saviour, ‘The Son of MAN’ and the MOST HIGH in the creation, when the spirit of our Lord descended upon him in the form of a dove

In Luke 3: 22; (In place of “Thou art my beloved son in who I am well pleased.”) The following authorities of the second, third, and fourth centuries read, “This day I have begotten thee,” vouched for by Codex D, and the most ancient copies of the old latin (a, b. c. ff.I), by Justin Martyr (AD 140), Clemens Alex, (AD. 190), Methodius (AD. 290), among the Greeks. And among the Latins, Lactaitius (AD 300), Hilary (AD) Juvencus (AD. 330), Faustus (AD. 400) and Augustine. All these oldest manuscripts were changed completely. They now read, “This is my son in whom I am well pleased.” Whereas the original variant was, “Thou art my Son. This day I have begotten thee.”

Joseph was a very common name in the days of Jesus and remains so even today. The Joseph ben Jacob, who married the already pregnant Mary and whose genealogy is recorded in Matthew 1, is an entirely different person than the Joseph ben Heli=Alexander Helios, the biological father of Jesus, who is recorded in Luke 3.

Matt 1:18-25: (18) This is how the birth of Jesus Christ came about: His mother Mary was pledged to be married to Joseph [The son of Jacob], but before they came together, she was found to be with child through the power of the Holy Spirit.

It was through the power or the workings of the Holy Spirit, that the child Jesus was born. Now we read of Isaac the child of God’s promise to Abraham, and see that Isaac was also born through the power, or the workings of the Holy Spirit as seen in Galatians 4: 29; where it is written, “Yet at that time the child born according to the flesh (Ishmael) persecuted him (Isaac) who was born according to the promise and the workings of the holy spirit.” It was through the workings of the Holy Spirit that the barren Sarah conceived the child of God’s promise, who was the biological son of her half-brother Abraham. And it was through the power=workings of the Holy Spirit that Mary conceived the child of God’s promise, who was the biological son of her half-brother, ‘Joseph the son of Alexander Helios.’

“The scriptures reveal that Mary was the daughter of Heli=Alexander Helios and Anna/Hanna, who was one of the three elderly daughters of Yehoshua/Jesus III, who was high priest in Jerusalem from 36 to 23 BC. The elderly 70 year-old Anna/Hanna, whose mother was ‘phanuel’ from the tribe of Asher, was given as a bride to Alexander Helios (Heli), and Jesus is the son of “Joseph, the son of Heli.”

Just as Isaac, the promised seed of Abraham was born through the union of Abraham and his half-sister Sarah, according to the workings of the Holy Spirit, and Sarah was told by an angel/man that she was to become pregnant, so too, the man Jesus, the reality of God’s promise to Abraham, was born according to the workings of the Holy Spirit and born of the union of Mary and her half-brother Joseph, who were both sired by Heli=Alexander Helios III.

Presumably, Joseph the son of Heli, would have been introduced to Mary for the first time at the gathering of the family and friends of Elizabeth the sister of anna/Anna, and the aged aunty of Mary, who were of the daughters of Levi. This was some months after the young “parthenos” (Unmarried) Mary had told the angel=man [Angel=Messenger of God] that up until that point in time she had never had any sexual relations with a man. Implying that the unmarried girl, “Almah=Parthenos” was still a virgin, before she met Joseph the young son of her father, Alexander Helios.

Whoops! Gotta go, the brother Just rang and he needs helpr with his dam pump. Catchya later/

Once again, all good stuff. Thanks.

As you know all men are born with a sin nature.

Rom 5:12,

Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
​

Why was Jesus an exception? If he had a sin nature, how would that have affected his being the lamb without blemish, which was required for our redemption. Seems like it would have disqualifyed him.

There must have been some difference between how God worked with Abraham and how he worked with Mary. Abraham's son was born with a sin nature, whereas Mary's was not.

Galatians 4:29 says Isaac was born "according" (Greek "kata") the spirit.

Luke said the spirit will "come upon" (Greek "erchomai epi" - to arrive upon) Mary and that it will "overshadow" (Strong's - "to envelop in a haze of brilliancy, to invest with preternatural influence.").

Do you see any difference?

BTW, I trust you understand that I in no wise take Jesus to be God. He was the son of God. Seems like that one little factoid alone would make people understand Jesus and God are two entirely separate "people." I mean, in what world can a son be his own father? That's insanity. There are tons of other scriptures that also make it quite impossible for Jesus to be God.

There may be a few verses that can be construed into saying Jesus was God, but it is poor scholarship indeed to elevate the few unclear verses over the many clear verses. Somehow they all have to fit.

Hope you got the pump working.