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There are no eyewitness accounts of Jesus in the New Testament

SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
See #90 #91
What reason do you have to believe that it is a firsthand account written in the third person?

If you don't have any, then I see no reason to believe it or find the claim credible. People generally don't refer to themselves in the third person. Especially ones claiming to be eyewitnesses to events. Most people don't tell you a story about themselves that starts with, "There was a man sent from God whose name was John ... "

Sorry but I don't see how your claim makes much sense here.
 

Sumadji

Active Member
What reason do you have to believe that it is a firsthand account written in the third person?

If you don't have any, then I see no reason to believe it or find the claim credible. People generally don't refer to themselves in the third person. Especially ones claiming to be eyewitnesses to events.
Neither science nor law would accept that as conclusive. It's not unlikely a person would relate such a formal account in the third person.

It's not conclusive.
 

SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
Neither science nor law would accept that as conclusive. It's not unlikely a person would relate such a formal account in the third person.

It's not conclusive.
So you don't have any reason to think that an eyewitness account was written in the third person for any reason, other than you want to believe it.
I mean, you didn't respond to anything I pointed out or answer my question so ...

The evidence indicates that this is not an eyewitness account.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Modern people have no way to check whose stories those are. I believe they are eyewitness stories, because it is more difficult for me to believe someone just made up the whole thing.
You are correct in that it is very hard to trace anything in the past with absolute precision, that includes history. But the Bible is, as far as I am concerned, very close to accuracy.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Incorrect. You have no way of checking. Just because you cannot do something does not mean that no one else can.
Many historical accounts cannot really be checked. The Bible offers hope. And many people believe it. I have no reason to not believe it. People without faith distort what it says.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
No, they really did not. Do you think that one of them was Peter? The epistles of Peter appear to have not been written by Peter. And if you read them they do not even really say anything about Jesus. Was the other Jimmy? The same applies.
Similarly there are those who say Jesus' birth was not recorded accurately and then some say he was born in December. They do not really tell the truth.
 

SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
Do you mean the piercing with the spear? Apart from the third person method of narrative, what evidence do you have?
I mean what I just said to you.

As I said, the available evidence indicates that an account written in third person is not an eyewitness account. Therefore, we can't conclude that it's an eyewitness account. On top of that, John was supposedly written in 90-100 CE, which would further indicate that it's not an eyewitness account.

What evidence do you have to think it is an eyewitness account?
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Many historical accounts cannot really be checked. The Bible offers hope. And many people believe it. I have no reason to not believe it. People without faith distort what it says.
The Baha'i Writings offer hope, more hope than the Bible offers. Is that a reason to believe them?

I have a reason not to believe the stories in the NT, because I have no idea who wrote them!
By contrast, I know exactly who wrote the Baha'i Writings, and the original writings exist in a vault in Haifa, Israel.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
People generally don't refer to themselves in the third person.
That is why the following verses that Christians believe are about Jesus are not about Jesus. ;)

Mark 14:62 And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.

Matthew 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Matthew 26:64 Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.

Mark 13:26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.

Matthew 24:30-31 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

 
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