There are no eyewitness accounts of Jesus in the New Testament

[SkepticThinker]

See #90 #91

What reason do you have to believe that it is a firsthand account written in the third person?

If you don't have any, then I see no reason to believe it or find the claim credible. People generally don't refer to themselves in the third person. Especially ones claiming to be eyewitnesses to events. Most people don't tell you a story about themselves that starts with, "There was a man sent from God whose name was John ... "

Sorry but I don't see how your claim makes much sense here.

 

[Sumadji]

What reason do you have to believe that it is a firsthand account written in the third person?

If you don't have any, then I see no reason to believe it or find the claim credible. People generally don't refer to themselves in the third person. Especially ones claiming to be eyewitnesses to events.

Neither science nor law would accept that as conclusive. It's not unlikely a person would relate such a formal account in the third person.

It's not conclusive.

 

[Kathryn]

What a strange thing to say.

I agree.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Neither science nor law would accept that as conclusive. It's not unlikely a person would relate such a formal account in the third person.

It's not conclusive.

So you don't have any reason to think that an eyewitness account was written in the third person for any reason, other than you want to believe it.
I mean, you didn't respond to anything I pointed out or answer my question so ...

The evidence indicates that this is not an eyewitness account.

 

[YoursTrue]

Anyone who believes in Jesus is a Christian.

The Bible does not say that. How about you though. Do you believe in Jesus?

 

[SkepticThinker]

The Bible does not say that. How about you though. Do you believe in Jesus?

John 3:16

"For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son, so that whoever believes in him shall not perish, but have everlasting life."

(I wrote that one from memory!)

 

[YoursTrue]

Modern people have no way to check whose stories those are. I believe they are eyewitness stories, because it is more difficult for me to believe someone just made up the whole thing.

You are correct in that it is very hard to trace anything in the past with absolute precision, that includes history. But the Bible is, as far as I am concerned, very close to accuracy.

 

[SkepticThinker]

You are correct in that it is very hard to trace anything in the past with absolute precision, that includes history. But the Bible is, as far as I am concerned, very close to accuracy.

How would you know that?

 

[Subduction Zone]

2 did

No, they really did not. Do you think that one of them was Peter? The epistles of Peter appear to have not been written by Peter. And if you read them they do not even really say anything about Jesus. Was the other Jimmy? The same applies.

 

[Sumadji]

The evidence indicates that this is not an eyewitness account.

Do you mean the piercing with the spear? Apart from the third person method of narrative, what evidence do you have?

 

[YoursTrue]

Incorrect. You have no way of checking. Just because you cannot do something does not mean that no one else can.

Many historical accounts cannot really be checked. The Bible offers hope. And many people believe it. I have no reason to not believe it. People without faith distort what it says.

 

[YoursTrue]

No, they really did not. Do you think that one of them was Peter? The epistles of Peter appear to have not been written by Peter. And if you read them they do not even really say anything about Jesus. Was the other Jimmy? The same applies.

Similarly there are those who say Jesus' birth was not recorded accurately and then some say he was born in December. They do not really tell the truth.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Do you mean the piercing with the spear? Apart from the third person method of narrative, what evidence do you have?

I mean what I just said to you.

As I said, the available evidence indicates that an account written in third person is not an eyewitness account. Therefore, we can't conclude that it's an eyewitness account. On top of that, John was supposedly written in 90-100 CE, which would further indicate that it's not an eyewitness account.

What evidence do you have to think it is an eyewitness account?

 

[SkepticThinker]

Many historical accounts cannot really be checked. The Bible offers hope. And many people believe it. I have no reason to not believe it. People without faith distort what it says.

People with faith distort what it says.

 

[Sumadji]

What evidence do you have

You said you have evidence.

I said it's inconclusive. No scientist or judge would call it conclusive.

 

[SkepticThinker]

You said you have evidence.

I said it's inconclusive. No scientist or judge would call it conclusive.

I just gave it to to you.

Try responding to the content of my post.

 

[Sumadji]

I just gave it to to you.

Try responding to the content of my post.

Your only evidence is the third person narrative. Its inconclusive. Will you continue?

 

[Trailblazer]

The Bible does not say that.

What does the Bible say?

How about you though. Do you believe in Jesus?

I believe in Jesus but I am not a Christian because I am a Baha'i.
Baha'is and Muslims are exceptions to what I said before since we both believe in Jesus as well as our own prophets.

 

[Trailblazer]

Many historical accounts cannot really be checked. The Bible offers hope. And many people believe it. I have no reason to not believe it. People without faith distort what it says.

The Baha'i Writings offer hope, more hope than the Bible offers. Is that a reason to believe them?

I have a reason not to believe the stories in the NT, because I have no idea who wrote them!
By contrast, I know exactly who wrote the Baha'i Writings, and the original writings exist in a vault in Haifa, Israel.

 

[Trailblazer]

People generally don't refer to themselves in the third person.

That is why the following verses that Christians believe are about Jesus are not about Jesus.

Mark 14:62 And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.

Matthew 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Matthew 26:64 Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.

Mark 13:26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.

Matthew 24:30-31 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Who is the Son of man who will come in the clouds of heaven?

Mark 14:62 And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven. Matthew 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man...

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