There are no eyewitness accounts of Jesus in the New Testament

[Ebionite]

The writer of John's Gospel, claims to have personally witnessed the crucifixion:

"But one of the soldiers pierced His side with a spear, and immediately blood and water came out. And he who has seen has testified, and his testimony is true; and he knows that he is telling the truth, so that you may believe."
John 19: 34-35

(edited)

No, the writer of John never identifies himself. The story is an outlier, and it shouldn't be because any witness would have been able to observe the incident with the spear if it had actually occurred. The story of the spear provides support for the idea that the crucifixion was meaningful within the context of Zechariah 12.

And again another scripture saith, They shall look on him whom they pierced.
John 19:37

And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for [his] only [son], and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for [his] firstborn.
Zechariah 12:10

The writer of John framed the conspiracy to murder Yehsua as the fulfilment of prophecy:

Then many of the Jews which came to Mary, and had seen the things which Jesus did, believed on him.
But some of them went their ways to the Pharisees, and told them what things Jesus had done.
Then gathered the chief priests and the Pharisees a council, and said, What do we? for this man doeth many miracles.
If we let him thus alone, all [men] will believe on him: and the Romans shall come and take away both our place and nation.
And one of them, [named] Caiaphas, being the high priest that same year, said unto them, Ye know nothing at all,
Nor consider that it is expedient for us, that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not.
And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;
And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.
Then from that day forth they took counsel together for to put him to death.
John 11:45-53

 

[Subduction Zone]

Modern people have no way to check whose stories those are. I believe they are eyewitness stories, because it is more difficult for me to believe someone just made up the whole thing.

Incorrect. You have no way of checking. Just because you cannot do something does not mean that no one else can.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Thank you. Yes, he was not, but he wrote the testimonies of some people who were, which is why, if Bible is true, there is eyewitness accounts.

No, you are misreading what that author wrote. He claimed that they went back to the original witnesses. That means that they are not eyewitness testimony. Even if they were right they would still not be eyewitness testimony.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

The greatest story ever told is how you convinced someone to marry you without

(a) A gun
(b) Pointing it

1. I'm not married

2. random statement is random


Seems like you aren't going to figure it out on your own.
I'll help you out then...

Your subjective opinion is just that: your subjective opinion.

My opinion is that the story of christianity is not so much the "greatest" ever told as it is the most "absurd" ever told.
It is also quite horrific and psychologically damaging.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

The writer of John's Gospel, claims to have personally witnessed the crucifixion:

"But one of the soldiers pierced His side with a spear, and immediately blood and water came out. And he who has seen has testified, and his testimony is true; and he knows that he is telling the truth, so that you may believe."
John 19: 34-35

(edited to remove reference to Gospel of Mark, already covered by the video)

That quote is making a claim in third person. "he" who has seen...
So he's not talking about himself.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Modern people have no way to check whose stories those are. I believe they are eyewitness stories, because it is more difficult for me to believe someone just made up the whole thing.

Sounds like a very bad reason to believe something.
Not to mention that it is logically fallacious.

 

[Sumadji]

That quote is making a claim in third person. "he" who has seen...
So he's not talking about himself.

Not necessarily. He could be referring to himself in the third person. It's not conclusive

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Why?

Because I think so.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Not necessarily. He could be referring to himself in the third person. It's not conclusive

lol, owkay then.


Not really sure how he is going to respond to that..................
He will just walk away and shrug his shoulders(*).



(*) in case that was confusing to you, I was talking about myself in third person, because apparently in your universe, this is a normal thing to do and not confusing at all

 

[Sumadji]

lol, owkay then.


Not really sure how he is going to respond to that..................
He will just walk away and shrug his shoulders(*).



(*) in case that was confusing to you, I was talking about myself in third person, because apparently in your universe, this is a normal thing to do and not confusing at all

Not at all. It's not conclusive. That's all. Christ often refers to himself in the third person as the Son of Man, etc. People do it. It's not uncommon. I'm sure a search of the NT would bring up several examples of third person usage.

It's not conclusive

 

[Sumadji]

People couldn't write. The account of the disciple whom Jesus loved as told to ...

 

[GoodAttention]

1. I'm not married

2. random statement is random


Seems like you aren't going to figure it out on your own.
I'll help you out then...

Your subjective opinion is just that: your subjective opinion.

My opinion is that the story of christianity is not so much the "greatest" ever told as it is the most "absurd" ever told.
It is also quite horrific and psychologically damaging.

For some reason your opinion had more weight when I thought you were married, but now it just sounds, well...sad.

All the best to you.

 

[Jimmy]

They did not write about him.

They did not write about him.

2 did

 

[SkepticThinker]

Why should I believe that?

Because that's what the evidence indicates.

If you are someone who wants to believe in as many true things as possible and as few false things as possible, this would matter to you.

If you're not, and you'd just want to believe what you want to believe because you want to believe it, then you will do that.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Whoever this Luke guy is, here is what he had to say...

Luke1:1 Many have undertaken to draw up an account of the things that have been fulfilled[a] among us, 2 just as they were handed down to us by those who from the first were eyewitnesses and servants of the word. 3 With this in mind, since I myself have carefully investigated everything from the beginning, I too decided to write an orderly account for you, most excellent Theophilus, 4 so that you may know the certainty of the things you have been taught.

He's not claiming to be an eyewitness, but he says the stuff he's writing about was handed down by eyewitnesses.

Which, of course, comes no where near being an eyewitness account.
I heard from a guy who heard from a guy who heard from the guy who saw it happen, is not an eyewitness account of any kind.

 

[SkepticThinker]

The writer of John's Gospel, claims to have personally witnessed the crucifixion:

"But one of the soldiers pierced His side with a spear, and immediately blood and water came out. And he who has seen has testified, and his testimony is true; and he knows that he is telling the truth, so that you may believe."
John 19: 34-35

(edited to remove reference to Gospel of Mark, already covered by the video)

John is written in the third person.

"1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome[a] it.

6 There was a man sent from God whose name was John. 7 He came as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all might believe. 8 He himself was not the light; he came only as a witness to the light."

 

[SkepticThinker]

For some reason your opinion had more weight when I thought you were married, but now it just sounds, well...sad.

All the best to you.

What a strange thing to say.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Why should I believe that?

Which accounts purport to be from eyewitnesses... i.e. that actually describe themselves as such?

The Gospel of Luke specifically says that it is not an eyewitness account:

1 Now many have undertaken to compile an account of the thingsthat have been fulfilled among us, 2 like the accounts passed on to us by those who were eyewitnesses and servants of the word from the beginning. 3 So it seemed good to me as well, because I have followed all things carefully from the beginning, to write an orderly account for you, most excellent Theophilus, 4 so that you may know for certain the things you were taught.

 

[Trailblazer]

Modern people have no way to check whose stories those are. I believe they are eyewitness stories, because it is more difficult for me to believe someone just made up the whole thing.

I do not believe they are eyewitness stories, because the evidence shows that there were no eyewitnesses to Jesus.
It is easy for me to believe someone just made up many of the stories in the NT, especially because of how outrageous some of those stories are.

 

[Sumadji]

John is written in the third person.

"1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome[a] it.

6 There was a man sent from God whose name was John. 7 He came as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all might believe. 8 He himself was not the light; he came only as a witness to the light."

See #90 #91