There is more then enough evidence to prove God exists.

[Shuttlecraft]

In my opinion the Biblical Jesus is a fictional character .Their are many saviours of virgin birth, Jesus just makes up the numbers!

The other "saviours" must have been krap saviours to let themselves be completely upstaged by a young dood from a woodwork shop..
Likewise, as a kid my dad took me to see a Davy Crockett film but it wasn't the real Fess Parker DC and I was very disappointed, it was just a cheapskate film with some other krap actor!

 

[BTROD]

I take no notice of these so called saviours, many are just fictional characters who may occasionally say something useful!

Jesus hasn't done much good has he!!! Look at the messed up world we live in! 2,000 years and we have gone backward! Great advert for religion eh?!?!

Live from the Heart is the Way, No saviour required. Simple!

 

[Shuttlecraft]

I take no notice of these so called saviours, many are just fictional characters who may occasionally say something useful!
Jesus hasn't done much good has he!!! Look at the messed up world we live in! 2,000 years and we have gone backward! Great advert for religion eh?!?!
Live from the Heart is the Way, No saviour required. Simple!

Jesus was more concerned with saving our souls when the body dies, that's what "saviour" means!
Basically when a Christian dies, their soul automatically flies to Jesus because they mindmelded with him when they were alive..

Jesus said-"On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you" (John 14:20)

 

[BTROD]

Jesus was more concerned with saving our souls when the body dies, that's what "saviour" means!
Basically when a Christian dies, their soul automatically flies to Jesus because they mindmelded with him when they were alive..

Jesus said-"On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you" (John 14:20)

Shuttlecraft, if this is what you believe, then fine; for me this is just another fictional story, no one can be saved through the actions of another - the 'saving' has to come from within.

 

[Shuttlecraft]

.. no one can be saved through the actions of another - the 'saving' has to come from within.

But we're all imperfect humans, so surely the last place we'd want to look is within our imperfect selves?
For example I'm a PC wargaming instructor under my fighting name 'Poor Old Spike' and newcomers come to me for advice because they know they'd never survive in the cut throat online wargame league jungles without my help.
Then after training them up, I sit back and watch them racing up the leagues and think to myself- "That's my boy, you're a soldier now!"..

 

[BTROD]

But we're all imperfect humans, so surely the last place we'd want to look is within our imperfect selves?
For example I'm a PC wargaming instructor under my fighting name 'Poor Old Spike' and newcomers come to me for advice because they know they'd never survive in the cut throat online wargame league jungles without my help.
Then after training them up, I sit back and watch them racing up the leagues and think to myself- "That's my boy, you're a soldier now!"..

We are not imperfect. Our true Self is Perfection. Our imperfections arise through being born into this physical world. We are conditioned through the three major tentacles of the System:-

the education(indoctrination) system
religion
politics

and there are many minor tentacles which distract and feed the lower self such as sports and film and music.

When I say look within it is to the true Self and not the conditioned lower self(ego). I find it of benefit to find a quiet place and simply observe my thoughts until they dissipate and then I know I have entered the place of my true Self.

Jesus said, the kingdom of G_d is within. This is what he meant.

Luke 17:20-21King James Version (KJV)

20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.


King James Version (KJV)

Namaste,

BTROD

 

[Shuttlecraft]

..Jesus said, the kingdom of G_d is within..

That's open to interpretation and has hidden depths.
And Buddha said- "No one saves us but ourselves", so if that's the case, why didn't God simply say "I see Buddha has cracked it, no need for me to send Jesus"?

 

[metis]

Maybe we need to be saved from people who say we need to be saved?

 

[Ouroboros]

Maybe we need to be saved from people who say we need to be saved?

Yes, I think so.

They're the ones who think they speak for God and have the ultimate and absolute truth. Knowing that we don't know everything and be humble about it, that's righteousness. To think that God is speaking through me and everyone has to listen to me, that's evil.

 

[BTROD]

That's open to interpretation and has hidden depths.
And Buddha said- "No one saves us but ourselves", so if that's the case, why didn't God simply say "I see Buddha has cracked it, no need for me to send Jesus"?

Shuttlecraft - and Christianity has plenty of 'interpretations', how many variations are their within Christianity?

The writers of the so called religious writings are not speaking on behalf of G_d! They are writing what they think their G_d would say - and in many instances(Old Testament) he isn't very nice! He'd probably be outdone by our current crop of suited psychopaths including Obama and Cameron to name but two!

Jesus is the Sun
the 12 disciples are the 12 Houses of the Zodiac
the trinity = Sun, Moon and Earth

Adam = masculine
Eve = feminine
the talking snake:cover: = the ego

And there you are Shuttlecraft - my interpretation!

And no one needs saving by anyone else - we do it ourselves, eventually! Enlightenment is when the mind sees minus all the conditioning which it has undergone since exiting the womb.

 

[serp777]

Yes, I think so.

They're the ones who think they speak for God and have the ultimate and absolute truth. Knowing that we don't know everything and be humble about it, that's righteousness. To think that God is speaking through me and everyone has to listen to me, that's evil.

Yes, humans who think they are infallible and righteous have an evil dictator complex.

 

[Ouroboros]

Yes, humans who think they are infallible and righteous have an evil dictator complex.

And narcissistic. Especially some of the pastors I've met in my life.

I remember particularly one. He was never wrong. God always spoke to him, and our congregation followed him like obedient lambs. It was a very cultish evangelical (faith movement) church. So, all these years he spoke from God's mouth to us about the absolute and undeniable truth, and sometimes he talked about how misguided and heretic other churches were, especially the Catholic Church (they were basically led my Satan).

You know what happened earlier this year? We left the church 15 years ago, so we haven't stayed in touch. A few weeks ago I decided to look them up online, and to my big surprise he was mentioned in an article on a Catholic news page. Our former paster (he stepped down last year, I got to know) converted to Catholicism in April!!!... Wow... He has been meditating and talking to God for a few years and got to know that Catholics have it. So it wasn't our church after all. After all these Holy Ghost preaching spiels, he didn't have the truth for 30 years?

 

[Shuttlecraft]

Anybody care to answer why God sent Jesus to save us?
I mean, if we can save ourselves as some people claim, why was Jesus needed?
Same with Buddha, we don't need him either if we're quite capable of enlightening ourselves without him, right?..

 

[metis]

Anybody care to answer why God sent Jesus to save us?
I mean, if we can save ourselves as some people claim, why was Jesus needed?

That's an assumption, which is fine as far as "belief" is concerned, but "belief" is not synonymous with "fact".

 

[Ouroboros]

Adam = masculine
Eve = feminine
the talking snake:cover: = the ego

It's interesting to look into how the ancient cultures viewed snakes and what they symbolized. My understanding is that the snake represented wisdom and healing. The snake in the garden knew secrets and revealed them to the humans. But the gods didn't want humans to know the secrets (like the tree of eternal life, which God/gods didn't tell the humans about). Also, looking at the copper snake on the rod that Moses made to heal the people, same thing, and the Caduceus today (symbol on many hospitals and ambulances). The snake wasn't a symbol of evil but of truth back then. It wasn't a symbol of satan, devil, anti-god at all, but rather salvation. Jesus was the snake in a sense. The same copper snake hung on a tree for people to look at and get healed (spiritually), supposedly.

Jesus came (in a figurative meaning, I don't believe in the literal idea of Jesus) to save us from ourselves, our human nature and become gods, or actually just realized that we are already saved. We have the divine, god-spirit in us already, but it's not actualized without realization, and Jesus is the symbol to which we are supposed to imitate. By each one becoming a Jesus, or the Jesus in our own lives, we can find the salvation and know we are already one with God. That's how we're healed from spiritual sleep (or death) and born again (we were already born, but needed to wake up and seeing it).

 

[Shuttlecraft]

Originally Posted by Shuttlecraft
Anybody care to answer why God sent Jesus to save us?
I mean, if we can save ourselves as some people claim, why was Jesus needed?

That's an assumption, which is fine as far as "belief" is concerned, but "belief" is not synonymous with "fact".

Jesus said straight out-
"I didn't come to judge the world, but to save it" (John 12:47)
What other possible reason could he have for coming?

 

[metis]

Jesus said straight out-
"I didn't come to judge the world, but to save it" (John 12:47)
What other possible reason could he have for coming?

Did you ever read the Bhagavad Gita, and do you believe in what it says?

 

[Shuttlecraft]

Originally Posted by Shuttlecraft
Jesus said straight out-
"I didn't come to judge the world, but to save it" (John 12:47)
What other possible reason could he have for coming?

Did you ever read the Bhagavad Gita, and do you believe in what it says?

Wait! you answer my question first, then i'll answer yours, or is this a parallel universe where standard debating protocol doesn't exist?..

 

[metis]

Wait! you answer my question first, then i'll answer yours, or is this a parallel universe where standard debating protocol doesn't exist?..

My question was asked for a reason, but if you don't want to answer it, that's OK.

 

[Shuttlecraft]

My question was asked for a reason, but if you don't want to answer it, that's OK.

I briefly started skimming through the Bhagavad-Gita once, but it bored me so I binned it.
Incidentally Gandhi called it his "spiritual dictionary", but it didn't seem to have done him a bit of good because he let India's wretched Hindu caste system go on without tackling it-

I think I prefer the Christian approach..-
"[God] raiseth up the poor out of the dust, and lifteth up the beggar from the dunghill, to set them among princes, and to make them inherit the throne of glory:" (1 Samuel 2:8 KJV)