THERE Is no super being i will tell you why

[painted wolf]

Yes, not the kind of god you propose, but an interventionist, omnimax deity is contradictory and can be absolutely dismissed as possible.

agreed... I don't believe in an interventionist deity either.

No, I hope I didn't even insinuate that. The worth of any god would be in its influence on existence, whether a deistic "create-'em-then-leave-'em god or interventionist god; there's no reason to see any supreme being's fingerprints on the world whatsoever. My point was that a god who shows no discernable interest in the universe or the life within seems to be as relevant as a crippled idiot god.

Interest and obsessive meddling are quite different things.

I can grasp your creator/god-ism, I just don't find it philosophically tenable.

Perhaps you need a broader philosophy?

wa:do

 

[Nepenthe]

agreed... I don't believe in an interventionist deity either.


Interest and obsessive meddling are quite different things.


Perhaps you need a broader philosophy?

wa:do

See what happens when I agree with you 99.9% PW? Sigh.... <goes back to work>

 

[Willamena]

I find god to be subjective rather than objective.

I find subjective to be objective, and vice-versa. "God", like everything, is subject (and object) to both by us.

 

[painted wolf]

See what happens when I agree with you 99.9% PW? Sigh.... <goes back to work>

I'm obnoxious like that...

Have fun at work! :angel2:

wa:do

 

[MoonWater]

I wasn't going to respond to this since it's witless gibberish and atotalstranger already destroyed it.
But I'm petty and vindictive so I respond thusly:

It doesn't work that way. I never even suggested what you propose. Hone your reading skills and maybe you'll understand what I wrote.

You said This:

I agree that it has absolutely no bearing on whether a god exists or not, but it does have bearing on whether a benevolent deity exists.

In response to this:

The idea that humans need some sort of special coddling that no other species or object in all of creation gets is what bothers me.

People who whine about how God never did anything to help them so therefore there must be no god... well, that argument sounds like a spoiled child to me.

wa:do

Notice the bolded in particular. By the way you responded it seemed, to me, as though you were saying that because humans don't receive special coddling then no benevolent god can exist. If that is the case then it is a legitimate question. If this is not what you meant then I apologize for misunderstanding but would suggest that you make your point a bit more clearly next time so as to avoid confusion.

Edit: Oh and atotalstranger didn't "destroy it". Painted wolf had a rather nice response to him:

Why should god fix things that we should take responsibility for?

 

[Nepenthe]

You said This:

I agree that it has absolutely no bearing on whether a god exists or not, but it does have bearing on whether a benevolent deity exists.

In response to this:

The idea that humans need some sort of special coddling that no other species or object in all of creation gets is what bothers me.

People who whine about how God never did anything to help them so therefore there must be no god... well, that argument sounds like a spoiled child to me.

Notice the bolded in particular. By the way you responded it seemed, to me, as though you were saying that because humans don't receive special coddling then no benevolent god can exist. If that is the case then it is a legitimate question. If this is not what you meant then I apologize for misunderstanding but would suggest that you make your point a bit more clearly next time so as to avoid confusion.

Suggestion noted, but my point should've been readily evident. I was referencing the "People who whine about how God never did anything to help them so therefore there must be no god... well, that argument sounds like a spoiled child to me." specifically. I don't think humans should receive special coddling from any god, but an omnibenevolent deity as proposed by many monotheists necessitates a response. An omnibenevolent deity does not require that humans be coddled but does require an answer as to why innocent lives are subject to so much misery. Painted wolf's deity falls far outside this interpretation and does not require such an explanation.

Edit: Oh and atotalstranger didn't "destroy it". Painted wolf had a rather nice response to him:

Why should god fix things that we should take responsibility for?

Painted wolf's responses are always nice.
I agree with painted wolf as it relates to her interpretation of the deity, but not the omnibenevolent deity I was referring to. Humans are not responsible for cancer or natural disasters or extinctions or.... etc.

Nobody with any grasp of logic or philosophy would argue that the lack of human coddling necessitates the nonexistence of a creator. My bad for not being more specific.

 

[Shahzad]

How much evil there is in the world that cries to heaven for vengeance, but heaven is silent. To me, at least, this mighty being with the power to do whatever it wills does not seem to be there at all.

 

[MoonWater]

Suggestion noted, but my point should've been readily evident. I was referencing the "People who whine about how God never did anything to help them so therefore there must be no god... well, that argument sounds like a spoiled child to me." specifically. I don't think humans should receive special coddling from any god, but an omnibenevolent deity as proposed by many monotheists necessitates a response. An omnibenevolent deity does not require that humans be coddled but does require an answer as to why innocent lives are subject to so much misery. Painted wolf's deity falls far outside this interpretation and does not require such an explanation.

And that's where the confusion came in. I thought your response was reffering to the coddling part not that part you bolded above. So in a sense I agree with you but I personally remain neutral towards both sides on the idea of an omnibenevolent god. I certainly see the problems inherent in the idea but don't know enough about the arguments in favor to determine which camp is stronger at the moment. Either way I don't believe in such a deity anyway so

Painted wolf's responses are always nice.
I agree with painted wolf as it relates to her interpretation of the deity, but not the omnibenevolent deity I was referring to. Humans are not responsible for cancer or natural disasters or extinctions or.... etc.

Nobody with any grasp of logic or philosophy would argue that the lack of human coddling necessitates the nonexistence of a creator. My bad for not being more specific.

Agreed. I'm glad we could come to an understanding.

 

[Don Penguinoini]

i have red the bible i know what god should be

 

[rojse]

I don't know what a hypothetical god would care about, but it's obvious that the idea of a god which loves humans, is ludicrous.

Perhaps this "love" is not a love that we can readily appreciate. Unknowable God and all.

 

[Anti-thesisofreason]

So, we are unimportant to God? He does not relieve the suffering of children because it's not that big a deal to Him?

Just a thought but . . .maybe reasons for what we see as suffering in the world are beyond/outside our human understanding, in other words we can't see the big picture.

 

[Don Penguinoini]

So, we are unimportant to God? He does not relieve the suffering of children because it's not that big a deal to Him?

We would never learn from our mistakes and faults if we never had accidents to start with.

 

[Anti-thesisofreason]

If a god has the power to prevent something horrible, and experiences empathy/love as humans do, then it would want to do so.

Unless of course there are reasons, beyond our understanding, for such things to occur.

 

[Hospitaller]

If there is a god why was my sisser sexualy mollested at a young age if there is a god why did god make it so i have no breaks in life why dont i have a any friends when i am nicest guy you will meet. If there is a god why do million innocent babys die everyday for no damn reason. Why did god make people not have friends and not be able to get a girlfriend why did god make it so people cant walk what is the point of that give me a good explaination

"When God created us He wished to create a true covenant and create a true bondage of love. Love is not true love if it is forced. For that reason we were given free will, to choose to do what was right and love God, or to choose to do what wasn't right. From there arises the possiblity of evil."

Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen said something kind of like that.

 

[Riverwolf]

How much evil there is in the world that cries to heaven for vengeance, but heaven is silent. To me, at least, this mighty being with the power to do whatever it wills does not seem to be there at all.

NEVER for vengeance.

Vengeance is petty and childish. No worthy God would answer such a prayer.

 

[Shahzad]

NEVER for vengeance.

Vengeance is petty and childish. No worthy God would answer such a prayer.

Says who? The God of the Bible says, "Vengeance is mine, I will repay", the Islamic God goes further and permits humans to take proper retaliation. In Christianity, vengeance is God's privilege.

 

[Beaudreaux]

Then aren't we all demons?

I mean, how can we expect God to do something about children getting molested all the time if we sit around and do little to nothing about it?

This comparison is flawed. If I dedicated my life to doing nothing but stopping child molestation, I would barely make a dent by the time I died. Meanwhile, God supposedly could stop it all in an instant with a thought. Not exactly the same thing, wouldn't you say? You see, I am not capable of stopping the vast majority of evil things that happen in the world. God is supposedly capable of stopping them all in an instant.

I find it interesting that Christians use the argument "why should God be good if we are not?" They seem completely willing to accept a demonic God and act like it is God who should measure up to OUR standards of behavior and not the other way around.

 

[Beaudreaux]

A demon has the power to stop evil? That is a new one. Considering when their whole existence is to tempt you into evil deeds.

Imagine for a moment that someone precious in your life has cancer and is going to die a slow painful death. Also imagine that you find out that a doctor has developed a cure for that cancer. Finally, imagine that this doctor has decided to come and watch your loved one die and will NOT give you the cure no matter how you beg and plead. Please come up with 3 or more words that describe this doctor.

 

[Beaudreaux]

Who says there isn't a place for evil in the universe? Why insist that everything needs to be milk and honey?
It's a very immature view of the universe.

wa:do

Oh I agree. The idea that there is an omnipotent being out there who cares about us is an extremely immature view. No way it is true.

 

[Beaudreaux]

Agreed. There is a reason God does not stop "evil" even though it has the power to do so, and us mortals CAN comprehend it. It just takes some thinking about.

All I will say on the reason is this: Without Death, Life cannot exist.

Really? Is God alive? Will there be death in heaven?