Would it also include those who descended from these people, regardless of whether they recognize and practice those Laws, rituals and covenant themselves?
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"There's probably no God. Now stop worrying and enjoy your life."
- Thread starter 9-10ths_Penguin
- Start date
Magic Man
Reaper of Conversation
...and who were descended from Moses's people. It wasn't enough just to follow those laws, you also had to be born into their tribe to truly be a Jew.
Jeremy Mason
Well-Known Member
I thought so too and even argued that point. But again, Jay and others have clearly pointed out that intermarriage was a reality and even Biblical.
Define ethnic boundaries of Jews
Magic Man
Reaper of Conversation
OK, just as intermarriage was common among all tribes way back when. That doesn't mean anything. A Jew is a Jew.
Autodidact
Intentionally Blank
Oh, religion has much worse practices than ads on buses.Why have atheists stooped to emulating the worst practices of religion? Indeed, the very practices they (rightfully) revile and condemn?
They're no worse than the religious ones. However, it's symptomatic of getting down in the muck with the worst of theism.
Jeremy Mason
Well-Known Member
Oh, religion has much worse practices than ads on buses.
You might want to watch this:
YouTube - 1. The Ring of Power - Present Past [part 1 of 29]
Jeremy Mason
Well-Known Member
or world banking.
lilithu
The Devil's Advocate
I'll be sure and let my atheist Jewish friends know that they are not practicing Jews, even tho they observe shabbat every week. :sarcastic
darkendless
Guardian of Asgaard
I'm on your side here, half my Jewish friends love bacon. They're Jews for the sake of traditional family gatherings, other than that, they couldn't care less.
gnomon
Well-Known Member
I know there are religious atheists. I've always maintained that. It's just the popular usage of the term in the media implies atheism as irreligious. The term is losing cohesive meaning.
I also maintain that stating everyone practices a religion removes any cohesive meaning from the term. I'm not going to say you're wrong, either.
lilithu
The Devil's Advocate
So does stating that everyone breaths remove any cohesive meaning from the term breathing?
The definition does not remove cohesion. Rather, what it does is cause the cohesion to hinge on a different paradigm. IMO, a much more useful paradigm.
Are we agreed that defining religion as belief in the supernatural is not an adequate definition, as it includes things that should be excluded and excludes things that should be included?
I would make the same argument for the dictionary definition of religion as a "set of beliefs and practices." Sorry but by that definition, the boy scouts is a religion.
The above definitions look at the outward form without understanding the underlying causes.
The fundamental intent of religion is to try to answer existential questions. It is an attempt to make meaning and identity. These attempts then get codified into beliefs and rituals, true, but the beliefs and rituals are the result, not the cause.
Religion is about meaning and identity.
Mr Spinkles
Mr
I think that's a bunch of nonsense. You might want to watch this: YouTube - Noam Chomsky on 911 conspiracy part 2
This is a man who has been arguably the most fervent and well-reasoned critic of the U.S. for half a century and considers himself a U.S. political dissident.
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Jeremy Mason
Well-Known Member
Sorry, but this guy doesn't even come remotely close to thwarting all the evidence that has been provided by numerous agencies and groups.
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Alceste
Vagabond
Not at all the same. You are assigning the attribute of religiousness to people who would rather not have that particular label stuck onto them. Nobody would be annoyed to be accused of breathing.
And since you are the one doing this, it's up to you to prove we are religious, not up to us to prove we are not.
No, I am still going to go with the dictionary.
Not everyone in terribly concerned about meaning and identity.
If this is so, your friends are excommunicated/cherem Jews and not Jewish Jews at all.
Magic Man
Reaper of Conversation
It's OK, I'm sure they already know anyway, so there's no need to let them know.
Do they observe shabbat because of its religious implications or because of its cultural ones? The point is that they still don't practice or believe in the religion of Judaism. I've gone to church several times since I "became" and atheist, on holidays just to be there with my parents. I've also gone to church for weddings and other celebrations and sacraments. Does any of that make me a Christian?
You're getting away from the point here. People who practice and believe in the religion of Judaism have a set of beliefs in common. People who practice the culture of being Jewish are irrelevant.
Magic Man
Reaper of Conversation
Actually, that would be on "my side". Those Jewish friends of yours don't practice the religion, just the culture, as you describe yourself. That's my point. They're still Jewish, they just don't practice the religion of Judaism, just like I don't practice Christianity when I go to church with my parents on Christmas or for weddings, etc.