"There's probably no God. Now stop worrying and enjoy your life."

[lilithu]

Really, lilithu?

Yes, really.

Please stop with the "That's not the same thing because this one's much worse, so you can't even compare them" stuff. I know you know the fallacy there. No one's saying this is as bad as that. There are, however, similarities in the situations.

What scares me is that you might actually think the two are comparable. Are you really so self-absorbed with your middle-class worries of respectability that you think it compares to not being able to vote, get a job, get an education, walk down a street without fear? What is the average income of atheists now versus the average income of blacks then? Education level?

Please stop with the claims of oppression. I don't know you know the fallacy there, but you should.

 

[lilithu]

I would say religions are trying to show that their religion is superior. I wouldn't say that is the goal of most of the so called atheist ads.

I would say that both are trying to show they're superior. The rest of your post shows that's how you feel about your position. To think that it's different just because you believe it's true suggests that you're incapable of seeing that the other side feels the same way.

 

[Magic Man]

Yes, really.

What scares me is that you might actually think the two are comparable. Are you really so self-absorbed with your middle-class worries of respectability that you think it compares to not being able to vote, get a job, get an education, walk down a street without fear? What is the average income of atheists now versus the average income of blacks then? Education level?

Please stop with the claims of oppression. I don't know you know the fallacy there, but you should.

What scares me is that you're making the mistake you're making. I didn't say I was that oppressed. I didn't say I had it as bad as other minorities have had it. In fact, I said quite the opposite. You need to stop looking at it emotionally, and look at it as an analogy. Obviously, the situations are different, but an analogy only works between two things that are different.

So, please spare me the "You don't have it that bad". I don't have to have it that bad for there to be a problem.

 

[lilithu]

What scares me is that you're making the mistake you're making. I didn't say I was that oppressed. I didn't say I had it as bad as other minorities have had it. In fact, I said quite the opposite. You need to stop looking at it emotionally, and look at it as an analogy. Obviously, the situations are different, but an analogy only works between two things that are different.

So, please spare me the "You don't have it that bad". I don't have to have it that bad for there to be a problem.

If you realize that you are not oppressed mball, then what exactly is the basis of the analogy between atheists today and African Americans of the Civil Rights period?

To say that in both cases "there's a problem" is a bit vague, dontcha think?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

What scares me is that you might actually think the two are comparable. Are you really so self-absorbed with your middle-class worries of respectability that you think it compares to not being able to vote, get a job, get an education, walk down a street without fear?

... be elected to office...

Arkansas, Massachussetts, Maryland, North Carolina, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, Tennessee and Texas all have explicit provision in their state Constitutions or other laws that allow the exclusion or expulsion of an official from office on the grounds that he or she is a non-theist.

It's definitely not Apartheid, but it's still not right.

More info

 

[Magic Man]

I wouldn't know. My preachers never do such things.

But I will say that if there are preachers that do it, you don't have to listen to it. Simply don't go to their churches. I wouldn't. Whereas a lot of people have to ride the bus.

The same could be said for the churches that fifty years ago preached against racial equality and civil rights. "Just don't go to those churches. You don't have to listen to their racism. But you shouldn't march on the Mall in Washington because that's public."

How about we get back to the original point of this tangent? It might not be as bad as other minorities have had it, but there is certainly a bias against atheists. I hope you're not denying that part. So, the "Just don't listen to those people" thing doesn't work.

 

[Sunstone]

I see nothing especially obnoxious about billboards that say "Jesus Saves!" or "God Doesn't Exist!". What's the difference between those kinds of billboards and one demanding that we buy a certain make of car?

 

[Magic Man]

I see nothing especially obnoxious about billboards that say "Jesus Saves!" or "God Doesn't Exist!". What's the difference between those kinds of billboards and one demanding that we buy a certain make of car?

How is that at all comparable? Jesus is not a car!

 

[trueself]

Is there any proof that God exists? Take a good look inside yourself. Most people fail to look inside themselves for God. Instead, they look to their surroundings and conclude that since the world is such a mess, God must not be there, if He ever existed at all. They forget that since God created us, we bear His fingerprints and those fingerprints point to His existence.

 

[lilithu]

... be elected to office...

I agree that there's a bias against atheists being elected to office and that's not right. That's not the same thing as being able to get a decent education or vote. The former is a due to social bias whereas the latter was institutionalized into our very laws and socio-economic structures.

Arkansas, Massachussetts, Maryland, North Carolina, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, Tennessee and Texas all have explicit provision in their state Constitutions or other laws that allow the exclusion or expulsion of an official from office on the grounds that he or she is a non-theist.

How is this possible??! I'm not arguing with you. I'm just shocked. That is a blatant violation of the first amendment. Why has no one filed a lawsuit? Where is the ACLU?

This example that you give is more in keeping with the issues of the civil rights movement. It's not just about public perception but legal inequality.

 

[logician]

Is there any proof that God exists? Take a good look inside yourself. Most people fail to look inside themselves for God. Instead, they look to their surroundings and conclude that since the world is such a mess, God must not be there, if He ever existed at all. They forget that since God created us, we bear His fingerprints and those fingerprints point to His existence.

Please provide proof that a creation was needed, multiverse theories have pretty much canned that idea.

 

[darkendless]

Is there any proof that God exists? Take a good look inside yourself. Most people fail to look inside themselves for God. Instead, they look to their surroundings and conclude that since the world is such a mess, God must not be there, if He ever existed at all. They forget that since God created us, we bear His fingerprints and those fingerprints point to His existence.

Please provide evidence that God created us. As far as i know, God did not say anything in the bible about creating bacteria which through mutations and UV rays created us over a period of 4.5 billion years.
Where does it say in the bible anything other than God dropped Adam and Eve off a few thousand years ago. Use your reasoning man, look in the Earth around you and you will see at least 200 million years of biogeochemical processes filtering through your hands.

 

[rocketman]

Please provide proof that a creation was needed, multiverse theories have pretty much canned that idea.

You must be kidding. To quote respected cosmologist Paul Davies from this NY times article:

"Far from doing away with a transcendent Creator, the multiverse theory actually injects that very concept at almost every level of its logical structure. Gods and worlds, creators and creatures, lie embedded in each other, forming an infinite regress in unbounded space."

That's too big to fit on a bus though.........

 

[darkendless]

You must be kidding. To quote respected cosmologist Paul Davies from this NY times article:

"Far from doing away with a transcendent Creator, the multiverse theory actually injects that very concept at almost every level of its logical structure. Gods and worlds, creators and creatures, lie embedded in each other, forming an infinite regress in unbounded space."

That's too big to fit on a bus though.........

They shouldnt be allowed to spread lies on public transport. SImple fact is there was no creation.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

They shouldnt be allowed to spread lies on public transport. SImple fact is there was no creation.

Are you suggesting we establish a Ministry of Truth to regulate such matters a la 1984?

 

[rocketman]

They shouldnt be allowed to spread lies on public transport. SImple fact is there was no creation.

The thought police are back in town I see ..........

 

[darkendless]

Are you suggesting we establish a Ministry of Truth to regulate such matters a la 1984?

I don't think its appropriate to advertise creation. Especially when in most countries high school teaches against that. What are kid's going to think when they're getting two different messages?

 

[lilithu]

I don't think its appropriate to advertise creation.

I don't think it's appropriate either (for reasons different from yours). But making it illegal is another matter entirely.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

I don't think its appropriate to advertise creation. Especially when in most countries high school teaches against that. What are kid's going to think when they're getting two different messages?

What they think is up to them. The fact that they're thinking at all is a good thing. You don't really want to curtail free expression because it might cause people to think, do you?

 

[darkendless]

What they think is up to them. The fact that they're thinking at all is a good thing. You don't really want to curtail free expression because it might cause people to think, do you?

I always thought of creation as inserting God where understanding is lacking. In this format i don't think there is thinking at all. Mainly laziness.

If people use logic in their understanding then its fine.

I don't think it should be banned, i just don't think its appropriate as it sends out a controversial message that close to every child (where i live) is taught the opposite.