"There's probably no God. Now stop worrying and enjoy your life."

[Mr Spinkles]

This fight began years ago when preachers started smearing nontheists from their pulpits. It's not something that began with a bunch of bus ads.

That's a valid point. My g/f said that she heard many homilies growing up, during the Catholic mass, which denounced atheism / atheists as having no morals, etc.

 

[lilithu]

This fight began years ago when preachers started smearing nontheists from their pulpits. It's not something that began with a bunch of bus ads.

I wouldn't know. My preachers never do such things.

But I will say that if there are preachers that do it, you don't have to listen to it. Simply don't go to their churches. I wouldn't. Whereas a lot of people have to ride the bus.

 

[Sunstone]

I wouldn't know. My preachers never do such things.

But I will say that if there are preachers that do it, you don't have to listen to it. Simply don't go to their churches. I wouldn't. Whereas a lot of people have to ride the bus.

The same could be said for the churches that fifty years ago preached against racial equality and civil rights. "Just don't go to those churches. You don't have to listen to their racism. But you shouldn't march on the Mall in Washington because that's public."

 

[lilithu]

The same could be said for the churches that fifty years ago preached against racial equality and civil rights. "Just don't go to those churches. You don't have to listen to their racism. But you shouldn't march on the Mall in Washington because that's public."

You are seriously equating the struggle for equality for everyone with ads that promote one group over another??!

 

[texan1]

You are seriously equating the struggle for equality for everyone with ads that promote one group over another??!

I don't see how these ads are promoting one group over another. They are pretty peaceful.

 

[Sunstone]

You are seriously equating the struggle for equality for everyone with ads that promote one group over another??!

You have a strange take on those ads.

 

[lilithu]

I don't see how these ads are promoting one group over another. They are pretty peaceful.

You don't think that an ad saying "Why believe in God?" promotes atheism over theism?

At any rate, to compare it to the civil rights movement is a stretch (to put it politely).

 

[Sunstone]

At any rate, to compare it to the civil rights movement is a stretch (to put it politely).

I don't think so. Not given the long and shameful history of churches smearing nontheists in this country and elsewhere.

 

[lilithu]

I don't think so. Not given the long and shameful history of churches smearing nontheists in this country and elsewhere.

Right, because you are so greatly oppressed. :sarcastic People were fighting for equal rights under the law - the ability to vote, to get decent educations, to get jobs - things that actually make a difference between their being able to raise and provide for their kids. People were killed in this struggle.

And you are complaining because some idiots in some churches are calling you names.

Just so that we are clear:
I don't think that it's ok be denigrating atheists, and have argued against people when they make ridiculous threads about needing God to be moral in these forums. But to compare your situation to what African Americans were facing at that time (and still face to a certain extent) is ..... a stretch, to put it politely.

 

[Sunstone]

Right, because you are so greatly oppressed. :sarcastic People were fighting for equal rights under the law - the ability to vote, to get decent educations, to get jobs - things that actually make a difference between their being able to raise and provide for their kids. People were killed in this struggle.

And you are complaining because some idiots in some churches are calling you names.

Just so that we are clear:
I don't think that it's ok be denigrating atheists, and have argued against such people when they make their ridiculous claims in these forums. But to compare your situation to what African Americans were facing at that time (and still face to a certain extent) is ..... a stretch, to put it politely.

Oh come on! No one is taking the comparison as far as you represent. But there are similarities in principle even though what's at stake for nontheists is much less than what's at stake in racial prejudice. If you can't see those similarities, there's no grounds for agreement here.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

I'm trying to evaluate this situation by imagining that a Church (Synagogue, etc.) put an analogous advertisement on buses....I can imagine disagreeing with the message, perhaps even chuckling about it, but I don't see myself feeling it is "low" of them to put the message out in public.

That is, any problem I would have would be with the message itself, but not the act of putting the message out in public by whatever free, legal means. If people have something to say, and they think it is important, I encourage them to say it. Then, let's talk about the merits of what is being said, not the merits of saying it.

 

[Sunstone]

I'm trying to evaluate this situation by imagining that a Church (Synagogue, etc.) put an analogous advertisement on buses....I can imagine disagreeing with the message, perhaps even chuckling about it, but I don't see myself feeling it is "low" of them to put the message out in public.

Here in Colorado Springs, the churches put analogous messages on buses, benches, and billboards, and they advertise on the radio too. I'm surprised they don't do it in Washington, D.C.

 

[lilithu]

Oh come on! No one is taking the comparison as far as you represent. But there are similarities in principle even though what's at stake for nontheists is much less than what's at stake in racial prejudice. If you can't see those similarities, there's no grounds for agreement here.

What I see is that you are drawing an analogy between atheists now and African Americans during the Civil Rights movement in order to add greater legitimacy to your position. The ironic thing is that the religious far right draws the same analogy between their situation and the Civil Rights movement for the same reason. They feel just as "persecuted" as you do.

 

[lilithu]

I'm trying to evaluate this situation by imagining that a Church (Synagogue, etc.) put an analogous advertisement on buses....I can imagine disagreeing with the message, perhaps even chuckling about it, but I don't see myself feeling it is "low" of them to put the message out in public.

That is, any problem I would have would be with the message itself, but not the act of putting the message out in public by whatever free, legal means. If people have something to say, and they think it is important, I encourage them to say it. Then, let's talk about the merits of what is being said, not the merits of saying it.

I agree.

If, for example, the Washington Ethical Society put out an ad on a bus saying that they would be a good place to meet for atheists/skeptics who felt a need to be in community with like-minded people, I think that would be perfectly legitimate. Just as, if the Episcopal church down the street advertised the fact that they do a labyrinth walk every Wednesday afternoon (which they do), that would be cool too.

I find "Why believe in God?" to be proselytizing and divisive. Just as I would not like to see ads that say "Jesus is the way" on my means of commuting to work.

 

[Sunstone]

What I see is that you are drawing an analogy between atheists now and African Americans during the Civil Rights movement in order to add greater legitimacy to your position. The ironic thing is that the religious far right draws the same analogy between their situation and the Civil Rights movement for the same reason. They feel just as "persecuted" as you do.

How ironic! Well, if that's all you see, then there's not much use in our continuing this discussion.

 

[zenzero]

Friend Lilithu,

I find "Why believe in God?" to be proselytizing and divisive. Just as I would not like to see ads that say "Jesus is the way" on my means of commuting to work.

Yes, surely everyone has a right to his/her opinion. Respect it.
However this is just to provide a pointer.
Being mostly a free/democratic world; none can stop anyone from advertising even religious organisation. [Atheism is a religion for some]
The message "There's probably no God. Now stop worrying and enjoy your life." or *Jesus is my way*. There is nothing wrong in those statements and probably true. True or not, who are we to judge? may be true, may not be. Whatever, nothing should disturb our peace of mind.
For those who gets disturbed is because of the mind's attachment with something which goes against the message.
Buddha never discussed about God being there or not there and maintained that both possibilities exists. Objective being to raise the consciousness which is above everything.
Personally am open to all criticism because its not me that one is criticising.
Love & rgds

 

[Sunstone]

The message "There's probably no God. Now stop worrying and enjoy your life." or *Jesus is my way*. There is nothing wrong in those statements...

I agree. I see nothing wrong with different groups publicly expressing their opinions so long as they are not calling on people to break the law.

 

[lilithu]

I agree. I see nothing wrong with different groups publicly expressing their opinions so long as they are not calling on people to break the law.

But for some reason it's wrong for certain preachers to be expressing certain opinions in their churches?

 

[Sunstone]

But for some reason it's wrong for certain preachers to be expressing certain opinions in their churches?

You're twisting words again, Lilithu.

 

[Namreg]

I agree. I see nothing wrong with different groups publicly expressing their opinions so long as they are not calling on people to break the law.

i would agree with this as far as our society is concerned,but there have been many nations where making any statement concerning religion is illegal.so if your only option is to break the law,it must be done.