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This is where liberty dies

C

columbus

yawn <ignore> yawn
Augustus said:
One team (Jets) has already come out and said the players can kneel if they want and the team will pay the fine.
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I have paid next to no attention to this nonsense. I got tired of BLM a long time ago and I never cared about NFL.
But it does seem to me that the management has been more than fair. More than can be said for BLM.
Tom
 
Altfish

Altfish

Veteran Member
columbus said:
That isn't what that data shows because it isn't comparing revenue with and without the protest. Apparently, the management thinks differently.

But the point remains, people besides BLM have rights too. Their issue doesn't give them the right to do anything that they want to. That's what this tempest in a teapot is all about. BLM people don't seem to grasp that fact.
Tom
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I think it is white people who don't grasp the injustice that Blacks are getting!
 
Thermos aquaticus

Thermos aquaticus

Well-Known Member
Phantasman said:
So why kneel? Kneeling is usually a sign of worship or reverence (for something or someone).
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At first, Kaepernick sat during the national anthem, and this is the reason he gave:

"I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color," Kaepernick told NFL Media in an exclusive interview after the game. "To me, this is bigger than football and it would be selfish on my part to look the other way. There are bodies in the street and people getting paid leave and getting away with murder."
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap30...ck-explains-why-he-sat-during-national-anthem

At the same time, Kaepernick had a lot of respect for the men and women in uniform. Kaepernick had a discussion with a veteran and they both decided that he could kneel so that he could honor the soldiers who fight for his freedoms while also protesting the way that minorities are treated. Read more here:

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/veteran-kaepernick-take-a-knee-anthem/

It has been an American tradition to stand for the NA. It's merely a shock and awe act.
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That's what protests are.

It's just another act that adds to the deterioration of a once great nation. I grew up in the 50s and 60s. The only people who didn't stand for the NA were people like Communists, against America.
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Do you also remember segregation during the 50's and 60's?
 
Revoltingest

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Altfish said:
Firstly, as has been shown previously in this thread business is NOT being harmed.
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News reports I've read sure suggest financial loss, ie, harm.
Secondly, this is not a good analogy. In this case the 'worker' is showing that he does not believe in the way the flag's country is heading so, because each game starts by worshipping the US, he has chosen not to do it. Because he cannot agree with what it stands for. He is not changing the subject and worshipping another country or part of a country; he is merely abstaining from worshipping the US.
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Standing is not worshiping
 
Revoltingest

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Augustus said:
One team (Jets) has already come out and said the players can kneel if they want and the team will pay the fine.
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That's really what it boils down too, ie, the employer reaches an agreement with the workers.
I imagine more will follow suit as in a league which 70%+ of players are black, it's not good for business to create conflict with your workers and make yourself less appealing to potential workers. Better to engage in a constructive dialogue and have them willingly stand as they believe the team will help them promote their message via other channels.
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Of course, it makes sense to consider the customer (viewers) too.
 
C

columbus

yawn <ignore> yawn
Altfish said:
I think it is white people who don't grasp the injustice that Blacks are getting!
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You think what is?

I am talking about the fact that people other than BLM have rights also.
I don't want to derail the discussion with the relative merits of BLM. My point would remain if the issue were one I support. The team owners and management still have the right to control political messages delivered on the ball field they are paying for by employees.
Tom
 
Stevicus

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Altfish said:
The problem seems to be the US is too precious about its flag.
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Yeah, to some degree this might be true. But football is also another sacred cow in the eyes of many. Personally, I don't care all that much for the NFL, not since they had that strike and used replacement players. But in Texas, football is almost like a religion. US patriotism and flag waving have also taken on a religious significance in the eyes of many.

I remember when I was a kid attending a game at Yankee Stadium (late 70s). During the National Anthem, I could hear one guy in the stands yelling at someone else: "Take off your hat!" Everyone is supposed to remove their hats and hold it over their heart during the National Anthem. People take this pretty seriously and consider it a grave offense to disrespect the flag.
 
Stevicus

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
columbus said:
You think what is?

I am talking about the fact that people other than BLM have rights also.
I don't want to derail the discussion with the relative merits of BLM. My point would remain if the issue were one I support. The team owners and management still have the right to control political messages delivered on the ball field they are paying for by employees.
Tom
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I think everyone has rights, including BLM. I've seen where BLM has had some problems and have faced criticisms - just like any group might have to deal with.

But there are some instances where you have to wonder about the cops. Just as I was reading this thread, I came across this story in one of my news feeds.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...m_term=.d9b3e847aa2e&wpisrc=nl_az_most&wpmk=1

On Wednesday evening, Brown wrote in full on Twitter:

“My experience in January with the Milwaukee Police Department was wrong and shouldn’t happen to anybody. What should have been a simple parking ticket turned into an attempt at police intimidation, followed by the unlawful use of physical force, including being handcuffed and tased, and then unlawfully booked. This experience with the Milwaukee Police Department has forced me to stand up and tell my story so that I can help prevent these injustices from happening in the future.

“Situations like mine and worse happen every day in the black community. Being a voice and a face for people who won’t be heard and don’t have the same platform as I have is a responsibility I take seriously. I am speaking for Dontre Hamilton of Milwaukee, Laquan McDonald of Chicago, Stephon Clark of Sacramento, Eric Garner of New York, and the list goes on. These people aren’t able to speak anymore because of unjust actions by those who are supposed to “serve and protect” the people.

“The common denominator in all of these situations has been racism towards the minority community, the abuse of power, and the lack of accountability for officers involved. The lack of repercussions for the police officers involved in so many of these cases is offensive. This is a slap in the face to the victims’ families and communities.

“Black men shouldn’t have to have their guard up and instantly be on the defensive when seeing a police officer, but it’s our reality and a real problem. There must be mutual respect and both sides have to figure out how to accomplish this.

“There are no easy solutions to this problem, but there are strides that can be made to create change. I will do my part in helping to prevent similar incidents from happening to the minority community in the future.

“This is bigger than me. My family, friends, legal team, Priority Sports, Milwaukee Bucks, the black community and the communities of all who stand against injustice plan to continue the fight. Peaceful support to ensure no further damage to our community is the only way to respond. I know many of you will share my anger and frustration, but for our community to progress and grow, we need to build on what we already have and not destroy it. I will take legal action against the Milwaukee Police Department to continue forcing change in our community.”
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Why would cops make such a huge deal over a parking violation?
 
Thermos aquaticus

Thermos aquaticus

Well-Known Member
columbus said:
You think what is?

I am talking about the fact that people other than BLM have rights also.
I don't want to derail the discussion with the relative merits of BLM. My point would remain if the issue were one I support. The team owners and management still have the right to control political messages delivered on the ball field they are paying for by employees.
Tom
Click to expand...

I fully agree that the NFL owners have the right to make bad decisions. The question is if these bad decisions are going to impact their bottom line. Will people start boycotting the NFL because of how they are treating their players? Will people make it a point not to watch NFL games, or attend the games? That remains to be seen.

I also find it rather troubling that people think the more you earn the more you give up your right to voice your moral beliefs. Telling players that they are making millions of dollars so they should just be quiet doesn't seem like the right thing to do.
 
C

columbus

yawn <ignore> yawn
Stevicus said:
But there are some instances where you have to wonder about the cops.
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Black people are nearly 5 times more likely to commit murder than white people.
Is it really a surprise that cops, including black ones, treat them differently?
Do you wonder about that?

Like i said, I don't really want to derail the thread with a discussion about the merits of BLM. Only that having a cause doesn't give you rights and negate the rights of other people.
Tom
 
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