This is where liberty dies

[Augustus]

why people are upset to the point ratings, attendance and profit projections are dropping.

Ratings for all TV programming are dropping, the NFL is dropping less than the market average though (i.e. it's performing better than expected), in addition the NFL is still by far the most popular thing on US TV with 7 of the top 10 TV events and 37 of the top 50 being NFL games.

Attendances last year were the 4th highest of the last decade

They have just signed record breaking TV deals, including with Fox whose news channel might say the league is in decline, but their money men certainly aren't listening.

A middling franchise like the Panthers just sold for over $2 billion and the Forbes list of the world's top 50 most valuable sports teams contains 29 NFL franchises.

Money talks, and the NFL are making more of it than ever, with their profits last year being $1 billion higher than the previous year.

 

[Augustus]

The United States Flag Code establishes advisory rules for display and care of the national flag of the United States of America. It is Chapter 1 of Title 4 of the United States Code (4 U.S.C. § 1 et seq). This is a U.S. federal law, but the penalty described in Title 18 of the United States Code (18 U.S.C. § 700) for failure to comply with it is not enforced.

4 U.S. Code § 8 - Respect for flag

c) The flag should never be carried flat or horizontally, but always aloft and free.

(j)
No part of the flag should ever be used as a costume or athletic uniform. However, a flag patch may be affixed to the uniform of military personnel, firemen, policemen, and members of patriotic organizations.

Gosh darn it, them NFL folks still disrespecting the flag

 

[fantome profane]

The United States Flag Code establishes advisory rules for display and care of the national flag of the United States of America. It is Chapter 1 of Title 4 of the United States Code (4 U.S.C. § 1 et seq). This is a U.S. federal law, but the penalty described in Title 18 of the United States Code (18 U.S.C. § 700) for failure to comply with it is not enforced.

4 U.S. Code § 8 - Respect for flag

c) The flag should never be carried flat or horizontally, but always aloft and free.

(j)
No part of the flag should ever be used as a costume or athletic uniform. However, a flag patch may be affixed to the uniform of military personnel, firemen, policemen, and members of patriotic organizations.

Gosh darn it, them NFL folks still disrespecting the flag

And under no circumstances should you ever do this!

 

[Revoltingest]

No, as corporations have too much control over their workers as it is. IMO, we need to ditch the term "human resources" and start acknowledging people as people and not a resource.

When you go from peaceful protests that interrupts and interferes with nothing to those who chant "death to America" while burning an American flag, that is erecting a straw man.

Imagine that you owned a company which provided entertainment.
And that one of your workers wanted to display his support for the
Confederacy by displaying the Stars & Bars before every performance.
Would you have the right to prevent this if it hurt your business?
Or must you provide a political platform, no matter what the cost?

 

[Revoltingest]

The United States Flag Code establishes advisory rules for display and care of the national flag of the United States of America. It is Chapter 1 of Title 4 of the United States Code (4 U.S.C. § 1 et seq). This is a U.S. federal law, but the penalty described in Title 18 of the United States Code (18 U.S.C. § 700) for failure to comply with it is not enforced.

4 U.S. Code § 8 - Respect for flag

c) The flag should never be carried flat or horizontally, but always aloft and free.

(j)
No part of the flag should ever be used as a costume or athletic uniform. However, a flag patch may be affixed to the uniform of military personnel, firemen, policemen, and members of patriotic organizations.

Gosh darn it, them NFL folks still disrespecting the flag

There's some amusing irony here, but that's all it is.
It's an obsolete & ignored federal law.
It prohibits violations which offend a vanishingly small number of people.
But back here in the real world, the kneeling does offend enuf people that the NFL
teams' business is hurting financially. For the players to do this while on the job is
a matter between them & the owners. The players can do it until the owners say
otherwise, because the latter controls the script for the show. There is no right for
employees to use the employer's venue for political purpose. But of course, they
may protest on their own time elsewhere.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

Actually Kaepernick didn't. his intent was to bring this to national attention and he accomplished that.

What was gained by that national attention?

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

Absolutely! If you know the criteria of the job then you have to decide if you want to work there. My job, my rules.

Uhuh. Well, I'm skeptical. But if you say so.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

What was gained by that national attention?

Personal speech isn't predicated on what the national outcome is.

 

[ecco]

It's just another act that adds to the deterioration of a once great nation. I grew up in the 50s and 60s. The only people who didn't stand for the NA were people like Communists, against America.

In the 1950's Congress decreed that all Americans must pledge allegiance to a Nation Under God or shut up.

In the 1950's Sen. Joe McCarthy led a witch hunt against "commies" that destroyed the lives of many people.

In the 1950's and 1960's black men were lynched for looking at a white woman. Black people rode in the backs of buses and were denied service at many establishments.

In the 1950's and 1960's homosexuals were treated as dirt.

In the 1950's and 1960's Lucy and Desi had to sleep in separate beds on TV.

In the 1950's and 1960's women were never pregnant, they were in a family way.



That's the 1950's and 1960's that you so revere.

I come from a time much more united. And I will admit, that those days are gone.

We came from a time that had blinders on. I'm glad those days are gone.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Imagine that you owned a company which provided entertainment.
And that one of your workers wanted to display his support for the
Confederacy by displaying the Stars & Bars before every performance.

If I had such a company, no. I would make it clear it doesn't reflect my thoughts and opinions, and if I were in Lincoln's position I wouldn't have allowed the flag of a traitorous nation to fly, but it this person's right to do so, Then I'd probably follow with an with artist who has a good deal of anti-bigotry on next. Or, perhaps the anti-bigotry act first then the flag to let the fans pressure the flag bearer to end their act early.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Maybe. But didn't the same ideology (BLM) call for killing cops and a few took the bait? Wasn't Baltimore businesses destroyed by the same message as the black NFL players are kneeling for?

It's a BLM message with no visible evidence.

If there is no evidence, you can't claim it a BLM message.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

In the 1950's Congress decreed that all Americans must pledge allegiance to a Nation Under God or shut up.

In the 1950's Sen. Joe McCarthy led a witch hunt against "commies" that destroyed the lives of many people.

In the 1950's and 1960's black men were lynched for looking at a white woman. Black people rode in the backs of buses and were denied service at many establishments.

In the 1950's and 1960's homosexuals were treated as dirt.

In the 1950's and 1960's Lucy and Desi had to sleep in separate beds on TV.

In the 1950's and 1960's women were never pregnant, they were in a family way.



That's the 1950's and 1960's that you so revere.

We came from a time that had blinders on. I'm glad those days are gone.

You're assuming he didn't prefer it the way it was. Never underestimate the effect of normalising social influencing. If your memories of the time owe as much to The Wonder Years and Happy Days as they do to living through it, you'd probably yearn for a non existent golden age, too.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

If there is no evidence, you can't claim it a BLM message.

When you're strawmanning a group that hard just to poison the well, I don't think you really care about evidence.

 

[Stevicus]

Imagine that you owned a company which provided entertainment.
And that one of your workers wanted to display his support for the
Confederacy by displaying the Stars & Bars before every performance.
Would you have the right to prevent this if it hurt your business?
Or must you provide a political platform, no matter what the cost?

You mean like this?

 

[Altfish]

There's some amusing irony here, but that's all it is.
It's an obsolete & ignored federal law.
It prohibits violations which offend a vanishingly small number of people.
But back here in the real world, the kneeling does offend enuf people that the NFL
teams' business is hurting financially. For the players to do this while on the job is
a matter between them & the owners. The players can do it until the owners say
otherwise, because the latter controls the script for the show. There is no right for
employees to use the employer's venue for political purpose. But of course, they
may protest on their own time elsewhere.

That's handy!

 

[sandy whitelinger]

Personal speech isn't predicated on what the national outcome is.

You do know that Kaepernic protested against racism. Neither patriotism nor free speech was his issue.

 

[Altfish]

Imagine that you owned a company which provided entertainment.
And that one of your workers wanted to display his support for the
Confederacy by displaying the Stars & Bars before every performance.
Would you have the right to prevent this if it hurt your business?
Or must you provide a political platform, no matter what the cost?

Firstly, as has been shown previously in this thread business is NOT being harmed.
Secondly, this is not a good analogy. In this case the 'worker' is showing that he does not believe in the way the flag's country is heading so, because each game starts by worshipping the US, he has chosen not to do it. Because he cannot agree with what it stands for. He is not changing the subject and worshipping another country or part of a country; he is merely abstaining from worshipping the US.

 

[ecco]

Liberty already died when ... controlling freedom of press became a negative for society.

Care to explain what you mean by that.

 

[columbus]

Firstly, as has been shown previously in this thread business is NOT being harmed.

That isn't what that data shows because it isn't comparing revenue with and without the protest. Apparently, the management thinks differently.

But the point remains, people besides BLM have rights too. Their issue doesn't give them the right to do anything that they want to. That's what this tempest in a teapot is all about. BLM people don't seem to grasp that fact.
Tom

 

[Augustus]

that the NFL
teams' business is hurting financially.

Hurting all the way to record TV deals and a $1 billion increase in profits last year.

Millions of dollars of free publicity too

The players can do it until the owners say
otherwise, because the latter controls the script for the show.

One team (Jets) has already come out and said the players can kneel if they want and the team will pay the fine.

I imagine more will follow suit as in a league which 70%+ of players are black, it's not good for business to create conflict with your workers and make yourself less appealing to potential workers. Better to engage in a constructive dialogue and have them willingly stand as they believe the team will help them promote their message via other channels.

If it hadn't become a political football, it would have probably ended ages ago. The latest ruling is is just fanning the flames imo.

Well see in due course I suppose.