This is where liberty dies

[Epic Beard Man]

Based on @Epic Beard Man post #82, the NFL owners are trying to come up with a compromise that is more than fair.

Doubtless, no good deed will go unpunished. When the "culture of victimhood and entitlement" folks get a concession they usually want more.
Tom

Post #82 was to highlight a rule that does not exist and that players "ought to stand for the anthem" not that they're obligated to.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

I'd expect that since you're so much more intelligent, learned, &
bias-free than I am, that you'd know abusive jokes are still abuse,
particularly when the post exudes anger & vitriol, but no humor.

Oh GAWD

 

[Epic Beard Man]

I really do know where you are coming from. (And thanks for the compliment BTW) And I am not even saying that I disagree with what they are kneeling in protest of (at least to an extent). And I will readily speak up for anyones right to free speech whether I agree with them or not. And I would (and have) spoken out against racist idiots before and will again. In this situation my argument is simply from an employer v employee relationship. (nothing to do with the subject matter of the protest). IMHO when a person is on the job, they should be doing what they are paid to do. And its up to the people who sign the paychecks to decide what that job description is. So long as the employer is not breaking the law.
I do respect your opinion. Agree or disagree, you have obviously put a lot of thought into this subject.

I understand and your viewpoint is like @BSM1 point.. Ultimately I disagree, but maybe because I'm a part of a union where I see this stuff happen and I hate our union.

 

[Father Heathen]

FH, I'm glad you see the point......Why is it that liberals get it and self-professed right wing doesn't?

Doesn't it seem like those who bellow the loudest about freedom are often the ones who support motions to stifle it? For example, gay marriage, reproductive rights, cannabis legalization, free speech, etc.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

They are employees of the NHL team they play for. Free speech is not applicable here. If these players were average employee they can easily be terminated. A 15 yard penalty is a slap on the wrist.

I did not realize football players played hockey......

Look there is no rule in the NFL handbook about standing for the pledge.

 

[Father Heathen]

I did not realize football players played hockey......

Look there is no rule in the NFL handbook about standing for the pledge.

Here is the only situation where a flag should hold any bearing on the game: Flag football - Wikipedia

 

[Epic Beard Man]

The whole purpose was lost a long time ago. It's time to move on. Kaepernic failed. The racists turned it into a patriotic thing.

Actually Kaepernick didn't. his intent was to bring this to national attention and he accomplished that.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Doesn't it seem like those who bellow the loudest about freedom are often the ones who support motions to stifle it? For example, gay marriage, reproductive rights, cannabis legalization, free speech, etc.

EXACTLY!

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Here is the only situation where a flag should hold any bearing on the game: Flag football - Wikipedia

LOL

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Considering that the flag is supposed to symbolize freedom, preventing people from disrespecting the flag is itself disrespecting the flag. How ironic.

Apparently hate speech is free speech, and you're a whiny liberal snowflake who hates free speech for even dare thinking to point out any problems with it, but not partaking in a silly flag worshiping is not free speech, it must not be protected, and you need to just blindly do what everybody else is doing because to not do so is to insult the flag and troops.
Conservatives should think really hard about this before making the "snowflake" and "anti-free speech" accusations next time a college protests and bans an anti-LBGT speaker.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Doesn't it seem like those who bellow the loudest about freedom are often the ones who support motions to stifle it? For example, gay marriage, reproductive rights, cannabis legalization, free speech, etc.

Well, yeah. It's only freedom if my way gets to run the show. Everything else is big gub'mint getting in the way and over stepping boundaries and stripping freedoms and making life hell.

 

[Stanyon]

If you cared to read (which you didn't), the point of the thread was to discuss owners punishing players for kneeling with a 15 yard penalty for a rule that doesn't exist in the NFL. See the link at the very beginning.

Doesn't make a difference now, they agreed to fine teams if players kneel and allow players to stay in the locker room if they have a problem with it.
. What you, me, or anyone else thinks about it is irrelevant.

 

[TheBannerofHomuraAkemi]

Because, I don't pay them to insult our flag or make people who hold that precious upset. In fact, I don't support anyone doing that on the job. They get paid millions and they can't just pay respect to the flag that enables them to live that life? Or better, even if they don't believe in that why not behave honorably just out of respect?

I disagree with many things - organized religion, certain political ideologies, etc.... I still have the tact to not insult people. Why can't they? They just come off like a bunch of rich entitled *** hats with no respect for their fans.

The counter argument is something along the lines of, "Well their beliefs matter too!" Yeah, they do... Just not when they're taking money. It's called professionalism, you curb your **** and pick it up at the end of the shift.

Wait a moment aren't you suppose to be looking at the flag during the anthem. What are you doing looking at the players. That's rather hypocritical of you to be calling out the players when you don't have the common decency to look at the flag. My oh my how unpatriotic of you.

 

[Phantasman]

No, as corporations have too much control over their workers as it is. IMO, we need to ditch the term "human resources" and start acknowledging people as people and not a resource.

When you go from peaceful protests that interrupts and interferes with nothing to those who chant "death to America" while burning an American flag, that is erecting a straw man.

Maybe. But didn't the same ideology (BLM) call for killing cops and a few took the bait? Wasn't Baltimore businesses destroyed by the same message as the black NFL players are kneeling for?

It's a BLM message with no visible evidence.

 

[Phantasman]

They ideology they fought for was one that embodies rights, freedom, equality, and justice, correct? Your silly flag ritual is meaningless if those who partake in it have no interest in actually upholding what the flag is supposed to represent.

Then explain to me what rights, equality, freedom and justice theses kneelers feel that they are being denied? What does a multimillion dollar football player want that they think is unfair?

 

[fantome profane]

But didn't the same ideology (BLM) call for killing cops

Good question.

No, it didn’t.

 

[Phantasman]

Good question.

No, it didn’t.

Uh, yes it did. Or maybe you were just MIA.

https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/loc...s-Video-Millions-March-Protest-285805731.html

https://nypost.com/2016/12/11/2016-was-a-deadly-year-for-cops-and-blm-may-be-to-blame/

 

[Shad]

I did not realize football players played hockey......

Just a mistake I never noticed. I watch a lot of sports so mixed things up.

Look there is no rule in the NFL handbook about standing for the pledge.

I know there isn't. Rules change though. Profit is the bottom line for many owners and kneel is a cause, not the only, behind failed projections.

 

[Sha'irullah]

A company can choose policy that best suits the company . . . end of story.

I know these players kneeling are already morons but it doesn't change the fact they work for an LLC that gives not a single hoot, holler or crap about their sniveling cries for psychiatric help. Liberty already died when gun control became a conceivable notion and controlling freedom of press became a positive for society.

 

[dfnj]

Inspired by: http://www.profootballweekly.com/20...d-penalty-for-kneeling-before-anthem/a3ss9ts/

Players found on the field kneeling during the national anthem their team may be subjected to a 15-yard penalty. What is sad is this will only create a polarizing environment for professional athletes who feel the need to protest and those who don't. Sad that in Trump's America we can move goal posts when it comes to free speech. I find that free speech is appropriate depending on who you are politically, and racially. For example, I do not see free speech proponents defend NFL players but I do see them come out in defense of the Charlottesville protests. Regardless of the venue of protests, if we're to defend liberty it must not be done by convenience, but by equity.

Liberty ended with the Patriot Act. The NFL is producing a product. The players are not being forced to take huge sums of money to participate in the "show".