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Those who don't believe in hell

P

Parsimony

Well-Known Member
FearGod said:
But what if it's a reality and not just a matter of fearing, can we know other than believing it
to be irrational to us.
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If it was real, it would still make no difference because its existence would still be unproven to us. We still wouldn't know that it was real. Then you'd just default back to Pascal's Wager (or an extended version of Pascal's Wager which encompasses all religions), which is flawed for reasons already stated in this thread.
 
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FearGod

FearGod

Freedom Of Mind
Emergence said:
If it was real, it would still make no difference because its existence would still be unproven to us. We still wouldn't know that it was real. Then you'd just default back to Pascal's Wager (or an extended version of Pascal's Wager which encompasses all religions), which is flawed.
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I didn't discuss which religion is right or which is wrong, but about the possibility that the hell can be a reality.
 
U

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Emergence said:
Okay, so if it's real, then it's real. If not, then it's not. Now what?
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To which hell are you referring ?
* There is the religious-myth hell of burning forever.
* There is the Bible's hell (grave) the temporary stone-cold grave for the unconscious sleeping dead.

- Psalms 115:17; Psalms 146:4; Daniel 12:2; Daniel 12:13; Ecclesiastes 9:5; John 11:11-14
 
P

Parsimony

Well-Known Member
URAVIP2ME said:
To which hell are you referring ?
* There is the religious-myth hell of burning forever.
* There is the Bible's hell (grave) the temporary stone-cold grave for the unconscious sleeping dead.

- Psalms 115:17; Psalms 146:4; Daniel 12:2; Daniel 12:13; Ecclesiastes 9:5; John 11:11-14
Click to expand...
FearGod seems to be referring to the first, so I am as well.
 
U

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Emergence said:
FearGod seems to be referring to the first, so I am as well.
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When Adam stopped fearing God what happened to Adam but that Adam simply ' returned ' to the dust - Genesis 3:18 - No post mortem penalty for Adam.
The religious-myth hell of burning forever is Not taught in God's Word the Bible, so why would anyone believe that ?
Does anyone righteous go to hell ?________
Jesus was righteous, and the day Jesus died Jesus went to the Bible's hell - Acts of the Apostles 2:27
If biblical hell was a permanent place Jesus would still be in hell - Acts of the Apostles 3:15
Since Jesus taught ' sleep in death ' - John 11:11-14 - then how could a person who is asleep feel pain ? - Ecclesiastes 9:5
The Bible was Not originally written in English. KJV translated the word Gehenna in English as hellfire.
Gehenna was simply a garbage pit outside of Jerusalem where things were destroyed forever and Not kept burning forever.
Gehenna was kind of like an incinerator to destroy things. Even Psalms 92:7 says the wicked will be destroyed forever, Not burn forever.
Jesus ' destroys ' Satan - Hebrews 2:14 B
Satan ends up in ' second death ' - Revelation 21:8
So, ' second death ' is a fitting term for destruction or annihilation - Psalms 92:7 - and Not meaning burning forever.
 
P

Parsimony

Well-Known Member
URAVIP2ME said:
When Adam stopped fearing God what happened to Adam but that Adam simply ' returned ' to the dust - Genesis 3:18 - No post mortem penalty for Adam.
The religious-myth hell of burning forever is Not taught in God's Word the Bible, so why would anyone believe that ?
Does anyone righteous go to hell ?________
Jesus was righteous, and the day Jesus died Jesus went to the Bible's hell - Acts of the Apostles 2:27
If biblical hell was a permanent place Jesus would still be in hell - Acts of the Apostles 3:15
Since Jesus taught ' sleep in death ' - John 11:11-14 - then how could a person who is asleep feel pain ? - Ecclesiastes 9:5
The Bible was Not originally written in English. KJV translated the word Gehenna in English as hellfire.
Gehenna was simply a garbage pit outside of Jerusalem where things were destroyed forever and Not kept burning forever.
Gehenna was kind of like an incinerator to destroy things. Even Psalms 92:7 says the wicked will be destroyed forever, Not burn forever.
Jesus ' destroys ' Satan - Hebrews 2:14 B
Satan ends up in ' second death ' - Revelation 21:8
So, ' second death ' is a fitting term for destruction or annihilation - Psalms 92:7 - and Not meaning burning forever.
Click to expand...
Given that FearGod is Muslim (I think), the Hell in discussion is probably the Islamic view, not the particular Christian view you seem to be referring to.
 
FearGod

FearGod

Freedom Of Mind
URAVIP2ME said:
When Adam stopped fearing God what happened to Adam but that Adam simply ' returned ' to the dust - Genesis 3:18 - No post mortem penalty for Adam.
The religious-myth hell of burning forever is Not taught in God's Word the Bible, so why would anyone believe that ?
Does anyone righteous go to hell ?________
Jesus was righteous, and the day Jesus died Jesus went to the Bible's hell - Acts of the Apostles 2:27
If biblical hell was a permanent place Jesus would still be in hell - Acts of the Apostles 3:15
Since Jesus taught ' sleep in death ' - John 11:11-14 - then how could a person who is asleep feel pain ? - Ecclesiastes 9:5
The Bible was Not originally written in English. KJV translated the word Gehenna in English as hellfire.
Gehenna was simply a garbage pit outside of Jerusalem where things were destroyed forever and Not kept burning forever.
Gehenna was kind of like an incinerator to destroy things. Even Psalms 92:7 says the wicked will be destroyed forever, Not burn forever.
Jesus ' destroys ' Satan - Hebrews 2:14 B
Satan ends up in ' second death ' - Revelation 21:8
So, ' second death ' is a fitting term for destruction or annihilation - Psalms 92:7 - and Not meaning burning forever.
Click to expand...

What this verse means

And if your right hand causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part
of your body than for your whole body to go into hell.(Matthew 5:30)
 
4consideration

4consideration

*
Premium Member
FearGod said:
What this verse means

And if your right hand causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part
of your body than for your whole body to go into hell.(Matthew 5:30)
Click to expand...
I hope you don't mind my butting in here, but I'd like to respond to this.

The Bible that I have also refers to Gehenna, and not "hell" in this verse.

I think it would be terribly unfortunate if a person was to take this verse literally. If one reads the entire chapter, one will see that Jesus first mentioned adultery. It is my interpretation that chapter is part of a lesson in acknowledging personal responsibility for their own actions, so that they may avoid creating trouble in their own lives -- and to help his disciples remove the excuse like "I can't help committing adultery. My body part does things all on it's own."

I don't think he was really tell anyone to gouge anything or cut anything off. I think he was saying (in modern language,) "Oh really? You can't help committing adultery (or stealing, or...doing things that cause big problems for you and others in life)...ok then, cut of it. I assert that as soon as a person gets the instruction to cut off the offending appendage, that person gets an instant realization the appendage is not acting on it's own -- and perhaps that person can control what it does.
 
FearGod

FearGod

Freedom Of Mind
4consideration said:
I hope you don't mind my butting in here, but I'd like to respond to this.

The Bible that I have also refers to Gehenna, and not "hell" in this verse.

I think it would be terribly unfortunate if a person was to take this verse literally. If one reads the entire chapter, one will see that Jesus first mentioned adultery. It is my interpretation that chapter is part of a lesson in acknowledging personal responsibility for their own actions, so that they may avoid creating trouble in their own lives -- and to help his disciples remove the excuse like "I can't help committing adultery. My body part does things all on it's own."

I don't think he was really tell anyone to gouge anything or cut anything off. I think he was saying (in modern language,) "Oh really? You can't help committing adultery (or stealing, or...doing things that cause big problems for you and others in life)...ok then, cut of it. I assert that as soon as a person gets the instruction to cut off the offending appendage, that person gets an instant realization the appendage is not acting on it's own -- and perhaps that person can control what it does.
Click to expand...

And how you explain this verse if not literally.

And if your eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye
than to have two eyes and be thrown into the fire of hell. Matthew 18:9
 
Draka

Draka

Wonder Woman
FearGod said:
So what "thrown into the fire of hell" means by the concept of metaphor ?
Click to expand...
Could be interpreted different ways. Thing is, do you actually think you are being instructed to gouge one of your eyes out if your vision causes you to stumble? I mean, dang, get glasses right? If you think, for one moment, that the remarks about cutting off hands or gouging out eyes could be metaphor for some other meaning, then doesn't it stand to reason that there are other metaphors within scripture? That, just perhaps, it really wasn't meant to be taken strictly literally?
 
FearGod

FearGod

Freedom Of Mind
Draka said:
Could be interpreted different ways. Thing is, do you actually think you are being instructed to gouge one of your eyes out if your vision causes you to stumble? I mean, dang, get glasses right? If you think, for one moment, that the remarks about cutting off hands or gouging out eyes could be metaphor for some other meaning, then doesn't it stand to reason that there are other metaphors within scripture? That, just perhaps, it really wasn't meant to be taken strictly literally?
Click to expand...

And what fire of hell means in this case ?
 
prometheus11

prometheus11

Well-Known Member
FearGod said:
Yes we know that the body dies but we don't know what next.
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What reason do you have to think that there is anything "next?"

Why do you think there is some other component to "you" other than your body?

Since there is precisely ZERO evidence of any "soul" or "afterlife" or "hell" why should anybody worry about such things?
 
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