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Those who don't believe in hell
- Thread starter FearGod
- Start date
prometheus11
Well-Known Member
He'll seems too silly to seriously consider. A hell sustaining God would be the biggest jerk of all time and space. It's too preposterous.
I worry about the hells of the various religions as much as I worry about an orphaned gnat in the Congo.
I worry about the hells of the various religions as much as I worry about an orphaned gnat in the Congo.
Draka
Wonder Woman
You do realize that in most cases those crimes do not carry a life sentence right? So, in your preferred justice system of punishment they are simply locked up for a set time and then let go. Versus put in a rehabilitative program before being let go. Which do you think provides less recidivism?
So of all things which could be true, why discuss Hell in particular?
FearGod
Freedom Of Mind
What if the rehabilitative program doesn't work with them and they repeated it once again ?
FearGod
Freedom Of Mind
And why not ?
prometheus11
Well-Known Member
Maybe the death sentence? That'll keep them from committing more crimes, and it wouldn't be never ending fiery torture.
Draka
Wonder Woman
There is a far better record of decreased recidivism with rehabilitation than with punishment. As is, people are punished, released, then re-offend and go back for punishment again. Punishment has a high recidivism rate as it isn't a true attempt to reform. At least with rehab you are decreasing the likelihood of re-offending.
Look, it is simply statistical fact that countries which employ rehabilitation rather than just punishment have less crime and lower recidivism of the crimes that are committed.
Punishment is not an effective deterrent nor means of changing the actions of the offender.
Simply, "Hell" does not make rational sense.
Pudding
Well-Known Member
I neither believe hell doesn't exist nor believe hell exist.
I don't know whether hell exist or not.
It's possible that the hell fire version A/B/C...etc may exist, but until i got evidence which prove they really exist, then i'll not believe they really exist.
Don't believe the claims that hell exist =/= believe hell doesn't exist.
Don't believe the claims that hell exist can be just the reject of the claims because of lack of convincing evidence.
While believe hell doesn't exist can be because there is evidence which point to the possibilities that hell doesn't exist.
Don't believe hell exist doesn't mean i believe hell doesn't exist nor will i claims that hell doesn't exist, at the same time neither will i believe they exist nor will i claims that they exist.
Will i feel regret if i found myself in the hell fire afterlife?
That depends on the reason why i'm in the hell fire afterlife.
If it's because of my bad deeds or karma base on the moral standards which i can accept, then surely i'll feel regret.
If it's because of some religions' gods' standards which i cannot accept because i think the standards is unjust and illogical, for example i'm in the hell because i don't believe in or worship those gods (i don't believe in or worship those gods because i got no convincing evidence/experience which prove they exist) or i don't follow those religions' gods' moral/law which i deem immoral/unjust (my personal moral system and the secular law system may have overlap with those religions' gods' moral/law, so please don't ask me do i promote murdering or other common immoral actions which is view as immoral from both religions' gods' moral/law and secular moral/law system, good moral and just law is not only exclusively come from religions/gods),
then will i regret that i should have believe in or worship those gods so i can go to heaven and not in hell even i got no convincing evidence/experience which prove they exist?
No, i'll not regret, it's a fact that if i got no convincing evidence/experience which prove any god exist then the logical reaction should be i don't believe in or worship any god, if otherwise i believe in or worship any god i don't believe in then it'll be out of my mind or logic that why i'll do such illogical actions.
Will i also regret that i should have follow those religions' gods' moral/law which i deem immoral/unjust so i can go to heaven and not in hell?
No, i'll also not regret, it'll be illogical if i follow those religions' gods' moral/law which i deem immoral/unjust.
Do you have any reason why i should have regret for not [believe in/worship] any gods which i don't believe in because of lack of convincing evidence to support/prove their existence so i can go to heaven and not in hell?
Do you also have any reason why i should have regret for not follow any religions' gods' moral/law which i deem immoral/unjust so i can go to heaven and not in hell?
Other questions that you're not demand to must have answer but if you're interested, you can answer it because i think it's related to the thread:
Do you believe/know hell exists?
Which religion's version of hell do you believe/know exists?
How much you are sure that you're right?
Are you 100% sure that the religion's version of hell fire which you believe/know exist, really exist? and if yes then why?
Do you think for awhile that the religion's version of hell fire which you believe/know exist, may not exist?
Do you believe/know all other religion's version of hell doesn't exists?
If you do believe/know, then how much you are sure that you're right?
Are you 100% sure that all other religion's version of hell fire which you believe/know doesn't exist, really doesn't exist? and if yes then why?
Do you think for awhile that the other religion's version of hell fire which you believe/know doesn't exist, may exist?
Will you feel regret if you found yourself in other religion's version of hell fire afterlife or you won't care about it?
Will you feel regret if in afterlife you found out that there is no such a place call hell?
If there is no afterlife, i suppose you'll not even be granted the chance to regret for believe in hell, the regret also includes that if you've told other people that hell exist and they should follow your god (if you do follow any god) and pass moral judgement to people because they don't follow your god's moral/law, and if those people have been mentally/physically(if it fit the situation) scared/hurt by your hell or moral judgement or homophobia/misogyny behaviour for an example (assume if you do behave like that, if not then it doesn't fit your situation it can be ignore).
That is just hypothetically to assume that there is no afterlife, actually i don't know whether there is afterlife or not.
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You could ask "why not?" to a discussion on anything, yet presumably you had some particular reason for choosing to discuss Hell. Was this intended to promote a Pascal's Wager-type argument?
FearGod
Freedom Of Mind
We don't know what our abilities will be in the afterlife , imagine that (in our case) the rapist can come to existence
once again and doing the same things which he used to do and nothing will stop him except keeping
him in the jail forever, IOW we can't realize the logic behind it as we don't know how the afterlife is.
prometheus11
Well-Known Member
Why make any assumptions at all about it then? I would assume that a hell sustaining God could figure a better option though.
FearGod
Freedom Of Mind
Following a specific one religion as what Pascal did and assuming it to be the right religion
has a flaw and which is what if the religion you chose was the wrong one, still the probability
of being wrong in Pascal's Wager exists.
Draka
Wonder Woman
An end to existence entirely would be an option for the unredeemable wouldn't it (that is, presuming only one trip through life)? I'd have to wonder why an all-powerful god couldn't do that instead of eternal torture. My only thought would be that the god in question is simply a cruel and vindictive one that takes pleasure in torturing. A loving deity would either give a chance to redeem or, barring that, snuff out of existence.
FearGod
Freedom Of Mind
What is the best option for dealing with a terrorist trying to kill the innocent civilians ?
ImmortalFlame
Woke gremlin
That depends entirely on the specifics of the situation and how direct the threat is.
Nobody is irredeemable to an omnimax God.
People who would go on doing bad things when punishment becomes certain are insane. They just need healing and God can do that. Easily.
If I were ever to adopt a Christian world view it would have to be Universalist, Universal Salvation. The premise there is that Almighty God is able to Save everyone somehow. That does not mean that there is not Cosmic Justice. Maybe Hitler spends ten billion years enduring every moment of suffering he caused, maybe it happens in an instant. But it is not eternal because nobody can do anything that bad.
Tom
Healing them from the mental illness that makes them think what they are doing is OK.
I can't do that. But I am not God.
Tom
FearGod
Freedom Of Mind
What if the terrorist was shooting innocent people ? will you wait to treat his mental illness
in Mclean hospital or just kill him on spot ?
prometheus11
Well-Known Member
Torture them in a pit of fire for a billion years? Or is that too harsh? (Not even a second of "eternity").
Annihilate him?