Titanic

[Estro Felino]

I observe that poor selection of premises renders logic useless.

I'm a free will agnostic, ie, I can neither prove nor disprove it.

That is a very strange claim.

Ok, sorry, then I was mistaken.

I am just asking you to acknowledge there were human responsibilities in the tragedy of the Titanic. Will you do that?

 

[Revoltingest]

I am just asking you to acknowledge there were human responsibilities in the tragedy of the Titanic. Will you do that?

Duh.
I've listed many problems from human sources.
Will you admit that?

 

[Revoltingest]

Breaking news....

OceanGate Titanic sub search: Coast Guard confirms 'debris field' is missing tourist sub

The Coast Guard announced Thursday that an underwater remotely operated vehicle (ROV) has found a "debris field" in the search for the missing OceanGate Titan submarine. The discovery was made after ROVs were scanning the Atlantic Ocean floor.

www.foxnews.com

 

[Estro Felino]

Duh.
I've listed many problems from human sources.
Will you admit that?

Of course I do.
I do take those factors into account.
But evidence shows those were minor factors...that kinda helped the disaster, probably.
I think the speed was 80%, and the other factors 20%.

 

[Revoltingest]

Of course I do.
I do take those factors into account.
But evidence shows those were minor factors...that kinda helped the disaster, probably.
I think the speed was 80%, and the other factors 20%.

Evidence doesn't speak for itself.
It means something only when
used in a cogent argument wherein
a coherent picture is painted.

 

[Estro Felino]

Evidence doesn't speak for itself.
It means something only when
used in a cogent argument wherein
a coherent picture is painted.

Surely.
We all know that speed causes almost all accidents.
Otherwise we could drive our car in cities at 100 km/h.

 

[Revoltingest]

Surely.

Don't call me Shirley.

We all know that speed causes almost all accidents.
Otherwise we could drive our car in cities at 100 km/h.

I've nothing to add.

Well, I do have something....
I imagined that someone used your reasoning
to analyze airplane crashes. Every investigation
would take minutes (instead of years), & the
conclusion would always be....
"It hit the ground too fast."

 

[Mock Turtle]

Of course I do.
I do take those factors into account.
But evidence shows those were minor factors...that kinda helped the disaster, probably.
I think the speed was 80%, and the other factors 20%.

Speaking as an ex-engineer too (aeronautical, but spent more time on the water than in the air), I suggest you look up some Ytube videos of ships colliding with other ships or land objects, and where even though many occurred at slow speeds, the damage was considerable, because of the inertia of such vessels (vast tonnage). And the fact that it often takes considerable distance to alter course or stop.

 

[Estro Felino]

Speaking as an engineer too (aeronautical, but spent more time on the water than in the air), I suggest you look up some Ytube videos of ships colliding with other ships or land objects, and where even though many occurred at slow speeds, the damage was considerable, because of the inertia of such vessels (vast tonnage). And the fact that it often takes considerable distance to alter course or stop.

I understand. But we are speaking of middle-school physics, here.
Do you really believe that kinetic energy (caused by speed) plays no role in the damages of an accident?

Please...

 

[Mock Turtle]

I understand. But we are speaking of middle-school physics, here.
Do you really believe that kinetic energy (caused by speed) plays no role in the damages of an accident?

Please...

That is basically what inertia implies - that is, the heavier the object, the more force needed to stop it and the more damage it does when it hits anything. Higher inertia being implicit in heavier objects - but high speed also provides inertia too, as in a bullet.

 

[Mock Turtle]

Why do we usually strike a match against the strike paper, then?
We could always lay it gently on it. The match will be lighted anyway, right? Inertia.

Well that is friction, so rather a separate thing.

 

[Estro Felino]

Well that is friction, so rather a separate thing.

I have been speaking of friction, indeed, for hours.
I said that friction is what cut the ship hull.
Friction caused by speed.

 

[Mock Turtle]

I have been speaking of friction, indeed, for hours.
I said that friction is what cut the ship hull.
Friction caused by speed.

I'll leave that to professional opinion if they ever do come to a conclusion over this.

 

[Mock Turtle]

When I was a university student, a car ran me over, it was night.
I didn't die...maybe because the driver was driving at 30 km/h?

Since speed is irrelevant, if he had driven at 100 km/h, I wouldn't have died, anyway.
Is that what you mean?

Well, they are entirely different scenarios, so NO! And I didn't say speed was irrelevant, just not the main factor probably.

 

[Estro Felino]

Well, they are entirely different scenarios, so NO! And I didn't say speed was irrelevant, just not the main factor probably.

Ok, I do respect your opinion.
But honestly, I have never met a person who has claimed that the disaster of the Titanic wasn't caused by high speed.
And I know lots of Titanic fans. In 1997 my cousin went to the theater 5 times to watch the movie.

 

[Mock Turtle]

Ok, I do respect your opinion.
But honestly, I have never met a person who has claimed that the disaster of the Titanic wasn't caused by high speed.
And I know lots of Titanic fans. In 1997 my cousin went to the theater 5 times to watch the movie.

If it was a convention of marine engineers, and as to what they thought might have happened, I might be more impressed.

 

[Estro Felino]

If it was a convention of marine engineers, and as to what they thought might have happened, I might be more impressed.

Being a staunch believer in free will, I don't believe tragedies happen because of fate, or because Morgan Le Fay placed the iceberg on purpose in the route, to destroy the ship. I believe tragedies are avoidable and if they take place, they are caused by men.

 

[Revoltingest]

...I have never met a person who has claimed that the disaster of the Titanic wasn't caused by high speed.

The obvious solution is for ships to remain stationary.
The Queen Mary in Long Beach CA has never hit an iceberg.
However without some speed, they're worthless for transportation.

 

[Mock Turtle]

Being a staunch believer in free will, I don't believe tragedies happen because of fate, or because Morgan Le Fay placed the iceberg on purpose in the route, to destroy the ship. I believe tragedies are avoidable and if they take place, they are caused by men.

They often are, and the decision to carry on at speed was probably a bad one - as is often the case when profit drives motives.

 

[Revoltingest]

I think males are obsessed with speed.
It's a fact.

@Christine is fast.
@Revoltingest is slow.
So much for your "fact", eh.