To all of you fellas

[LuisDantas]

Here's the thing, it doesn't bother me in the slightest to hold on to a grudge.

I almost envy you, then. I hold grudges fiercely, but it always diminishes me to do so.

I have no qualms with saying that I don't like someone and won't forgive them. There seems to be an assumption with many here that forgiveness should be granted regardless of if someone asks for it. I say, if someone has gone out of their way to hurt you, chances are they won't ask for forgiveness in which case I have no real desire to forgive them. Even if they did, it would still all depend on what their level of betrayal was before forgiveness would even be considered in my book. Time may eventually soften my animosity, but that still doesn't mean that I forgive jack squat.

This I may understand. It still is a case of limiting losses as opposed to a constructive choice, however.

 

[Father Heathen]

I agree. It is however constructive for such victims to rise over their hazards and help in healing the situation.

Why/how is forgiveness a necessity for healing? Excusing the damage sounds emotionally and psychologically unhealthy. Depending on the severity and intent of the offense, I think the guilty party would have to express genuine remorse and regret with a sincere attempt to atone before any forgiveness is given, and even then it should only be an option. The idea that a victim should somehow feel obligated to forgive is just sick.

 

[Draka]

Because forgiveness creates new possibilities, of course, while grudges limit and poison them.

Exactly what new possibilities would miraculously open up for me if I suddenly forgave my ex-husband that abused me? Or the woman that, quite literally, ripped my daughters out of my arms and tore my life apart so horrendously that I was near the brink of suicide and took several years to reclaim my life? It's not as if either one of these people has shown any remorse for what they have done. Shoot, they both hurt me with smiles on their faces and got enjoyment out of what they did.

I now have a new life. A new family. There is nothing that forgiving them would do for me and they simply don't deserve forgiving. Perhaps you should take a glimpse at the real world before spouting your wishy-washy forgiveness load.

 

[LuisDantas]

Why/how is forgiveness a necessity for healing?

The alternative is to keep unpleasant feelings, so it should be obvious. Isn't it?

Excusing the damage sounds emotionally and psychologically unhealthy.

Does it? I can only assume that you are still talking about the demand for forgiveness as opposed to forgiveness itself. It is indeed unhealthy to be submited to such pressure.

Depending on the severity and intent of the offense, I think the guilty party would have to express genuine remorse and regret with a sincere attempt to atone before any forgiveness is given,

Sure!

and even then it should only be an opinion. The idea that a victim should somehow feel obligated to forgive is just sick.

If you mean "option", then I agree.

 

[LuisDantas]

Exactly what new possibilities would miraculously open up for me if I suddenly forgave my ex-husband that abused me? Or the woman that, quite literally, ripped my daughters out of my arms and tore my life apart so horrendously that I was near the brink of suicide and took several years to reclaim my life? It's not as if either one of these people has shown any remorse for what they have done. Shoot, they both hurt me with smiles on their faces and got enjoyment out of what they did.

I don't believe in miracles, so I must say that such a scenario just can't happen - and, yes, it is probably unhealthy to try to force it upon yourself.

And let me say, I am sorry that such sad things happened to you.

I now have a new life. A new family. There is nothing that forgiving them would do for me and they simply don't deserve forgiving. Perhaps you should take a glimpse at the real world before spouting your wishy-washy forgiveness load.

Hey, I am not nearly the naive saint-to-be that you seem to mistake me for. And I am certainly not saying that you should even attempt to forgive anyone who does not deserve such forgiveness. I certainly don't, nor do I like the idea.

Forgiveness is not much of a goal. It makes little sense as such, really. But I would still rather have those who hurt me be worth of my forgiveness, although really, that almost never happens.

 

[Father Heathen]

If you mean "option", then I agree.

Yes, option. I edited and corrected my post.

 

[Father Heathen]

Exactly what new possibilities would miraculously open up for me if I suddenly forgave my ex-husband that abused me? Or the woman that, quite literally, ripped my daughters out of my arms and tore my life apart so horrendously that I was near the brink of suicide and took several years to reclaim my life? It's not as if either one of these people has shown any remorse for what they have done. Shoot, they both hurt me with smiles on their faces and got enjoyment out of what they did.

I now have a new life. A new family. There is nothing that forgiving them would do for me and they simply don't deserve forgiving. Perhaps you should take a glimpse at the real world before spouting your wishy-washy forgiveness load.

I am sorry for what you had to go through, Draka. My sympathies.

 

[Draka]

I don't believe in miracles, so I must say that such a scenario just can't happen - and, yes, it is probably unhealthy to try to force it upon yourself.

And let me say, I am sorry that such sad things happened to you.




Hey, I am not nearly the naive saint-to-be that you seem to mistake me for. And I am certainly not saying that you should even attempt to forgive anyone who does not deserve such forgiveness. I certainly don't, nor do I like the idea.

Forgiveness is not much of a goal. It makes little sense as such, really. But I would still rather have those who hurt me be worth of my forgiveness, although really, that almost never happens.

I'm sorry about the smartass comment, but it just grinds me so to be told all about forgiveness being so good and all that, especially when there is no possible way I could ever bring myself to forgive certain people. To me it would be tantamount to saying that what was done to me was excusable...and it wasn't. Not in any way, shape or form. In order to make it so my self-esteem and self-worth would have to first take a nose dive and I've worked far too long and hard to build them back up after all the hurt in the first place.

I'm obviously quite touchy on the subject and didn't mean to take it out on you. :sorry1:

 

[LuisDantas]

Don't mention it. I understand. I must.

 

[.lava]

Exactly what new possibilities would miraculously open up for me if I suddenly forgave my ex-husband that abused me? Or the woman that, quite literally, ripped my daughters out of my arms and tore my life apart so horrendously that I was near the brink of suicide and took several years to reclaim my life? It's not as if either one of these people has shown any remorse for what they have done. Shoot, they both hurt me with smiles on their faces and got enjoyment out of what they did.

I now have a new life. A new family. There is nothing that forgiving them would do for me and they simply don't deserve forgiving. Perhaps you should take a glimpse at the real world before spouting your wishy-washy forgiveness load.

i am glad to hear you moved on, Draka. that is very difficult experience and it sounds like you became stronger woman. i sincerely doubt they are happy now.


.

 

[Renji]

Guys, do you believe in this line from a movie saying: "Stay close to your friends and move closer to your enemies"?

 

[methylatedghosts]

BTW: why would a topic such as his be directed to "fellas?"

Don't know where the OP comes from, but here in NZ, "fellas" (or rather.... "fullas") is simply a term for "guys" - not gender specific

"You fullas busy today?" is quite commonly heard.

 

[Father Heathen]

Don't know where the OP comes from, but here in NZ, "fellas" (or rather.... "fullas") is simply a term for "guys" - not gender specific

"You fullas busy today?" is quite commonly heard.

"fellas/fellows" is known and used in the u.s.

 

[Quagmire]

Guys, do you believe in this line from a movie saying: "Stay close to your friends and move closer to your enemies"?

"Keep your friends close and your enemies closer"---from The Godfather.

Actually it's Don C. quoting Sun Tzu from The Art of War.

(movie buff and Eastern Philosophy addict here. )

 

[autonomous1one1]

For all of you, .....

By the way, Lawrence, I see that you have recently arrived at Religious Forums. Welcome. I look forward to seeing more of your ideas in the future.
..Regards,
..a.1

 

[Renji]

By the way, Lawrence, I see that you have recently arrived at Religious Forums. Welcome. I look forward to seeing more of your ideas in the future.
..Regards,
..a.1

Thank you for that..

 

[PureX]

When other people treat us badly, it's sort of like being bitten by a toxic snake. The "poison" of that injustice stays in our system and it effects who we become. I believe the only way to rid ourselves of that poison is to learn to forgive both the people and the offense. This is sometimes very hard to do, and takes much time and effort. But until we do it, that poison stays in us, and changes us - not for the better.

Also, forgiveness does not mean that we allow them to hurt us again. That would just be stupid.

 

[Renji]

The idea that a victim should somehow feel obligated to forgive is just sick.

Is it good to feel that there is someone mad/angry at you? If you commited something wrong accidentally and the person that you hurt cannot forgive you, can you take the consiquences? Can your conscience handle it?

 

[Renji]

Just what is the big deal about forgiveness? Is it suppose to make us somehow "better" if we forgive atrocities against us? I ask WHY should we?

If you've done something wrong to others, and they cannot forgive you, do you feel peace of mind? All of us commits mistakes. Even you. Therefore, we should not choose on whom are we going to give forgiveness. It's for all of us. It's not easy to forgive someone but, "time heals all wounds".

 

[Renji]

When other people treat us badly, it's sort of like being bitten by a toxic snake. The "poison" of that injustice stays in our system and it effects who we become. I believe the only way to rid ourselves of that poison is to learn to forgive both the people and the offense. This is sometimes very hard to do, and takes much time and effort. But until we do it, that poison stays in us, and changes us - not for the better.

Also, forgiveness does not mean that we allow them to hurt us again. That would just be stupid.

I agree.