To all of you fellas

[PureX]

sometimes forgiveness is useless, if we forgave a murderer for killing people, and we set him free - because we pretend that we love him- other victims will be thier turn again to be killed by the same murderer, that results, that we loved the murderer more than the victims.

Forgiving a murderer and setting him free are two completely different and unrelated ideas. Forgiveness does not require that we ignore what has been done, and set the murderer free. It only requires that we forgive what he has done, as we prevent him from doing it again.

 

[UnityNow101]

Every single one of us is responsible, in a sense, for the murderer, the rapist, the drug dealer, etc. The society in which we live is just an outward reflection of the inward ugliness of each one of us. Does not each one of us harbor the feelings which, if taken to the extreme, could manifest themselves as the worst of all crimes? Society is each one of us and we are society, as Krishnamurti would say. Unless we deal with and solve the inward struggles that lay dormant within each one of our minds, society is always going to bring about the worst in peoples.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

So are you saying that forgiveness can only occur when one person surrenders his/her pride? If that is your point, I would have to agree.

And I agree too Lawrence,..

'Forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us?'

'He who is without sin, let them cast the first stone'

'Love thy neighbor as thyself.'

'As you judge, so in turn you shall be judged'.

The list can go on but you get the drift,...surrender of the ego is synonymous with the development of humility.

'Blessed are the humble in spirit for theirs is the Kingdom of heaven.'

 

[autonomous1one1]

Every single one of us is responsible, in a sense, for the murderer, the rapist, the drug dealer, etc. The society in which we live is just an outward reflection of the inward ugliness of each one of us. Does not each one of us harbor the feelings which, if taken to the extreme, could manifest themselves as the worst of all crimes? Society is each one of us and we are society, as Krishnamurti would say. Unless we deal with and solve the inward struggles that lay dormant within each one of our minds, society is always going to bring about the worst in peoples.

Good poing Unity. So, are you saying that understanding is the key to forgiveness - that understanding that each of us is responsible for the society that we creat that produces the offending ones helps us forgive them? Of course, keeping in mind PureX's post above that the forgiveness is different from keeping them from hurting any more, if possible, is a given.

 

[Renji]

sometimes forgiveness is useless, if we forgave a murderer for killing people, and we set him free - because we pretend that we love him- other victims will be thier turn again to be killed by the same murderer, that results, that we loved the murderer more than the victims.

Forgiving someone who have commited serious crime doesn't mean that he's excuse of the consiquences of what he have done. Yes, you forgive him deep inside you but in the Civil Law, that person must still face the punishment(s) from the authorities.

 

[UnityNow101]

Good poing Unity. So, are you saying that understanding is the key to forgiveness - that understanding that each of us is responsible for the society that we creat that produces the offending ones helps us forgive them? Of course, keeping in mind PureX's post above that the forgiveness is different from keeping them from hurting any more, if possible, is a given.

Precisely. If we understand that we are all inwardly corrupt, which has in turn corrupted the outward society, than it is quite easy to forgive someone for projecting those qualities in a lawless manner. Atleast I have found that it helps me to forgive the ugliness of mankind.

When you look at such acts as the extermination of the Jewish peoples in Nazi Germany, and all of the normal people, like you or I, that supported those deplorable and inhumane actions, it is quite easy to see how our inward ugliness can project itself outward into reprehensible acts of violence. Were the people that supported such actions horrible men and women, or were they simply a product of their environment and upbringing? In other words, were the people evil or was the outward projection of their inward ugliness evil?

Does that mean that we should not have a system that keeps them from hurting others? Of course not. But we must get to the root cause of the problem, which is the ugliness of society which has been created by inward corruption. Properties such as greed, anger, hostility, hatred, etc., don't just spring up out of the blue. They have been dorment within each of us. Remember that we are the society and the society is us...

 

[Im an Atheist]

For all of you, what is the best way to forgive our enemies? I know that Jesus told us to forgive our enemies but how can we forgive them in spite of the fact that they hurted us in many ways? Please give a practical advice. If possible, please give your own experience(s).Thanks!

If you follow a religion then the faith will help you forgive some-one that has hurt you. If not your will have to find the courage yourself. but it depends on the situation and whos involved. For example you would forgive if a family member took £5, but it would be hard to forgive anyone that beat you sensless for no reason

 

[Renji]

If you follow a religion then the faith will help you forgive some-one that has hurt you. If not your will have to find the courage yourself. but it depends on the situation and whos involved. For example you would forgive if a family member took £5, but it would be hard to forgive anyone that beat you sensless for no reason

Thanks, I found your reply useful..

 

[Im an Atheist]

Thanks, I found your reply useful..

No worries, ive been in situations, i forgave people for petty crimes ETC, but there is a really big thing that happened and i could never forigve this woman for what she done

 

[Renji]

No worries, ive been in situations, i forgave people for petty crimes ETC, but there is a really big thing that happened and i could never forigve this woman for what she done

Hmmm, a little bit curious here. What did that woman done? Any way, I did not expect an atheist to mention about faith (your earlier reply). I found it so rare.

 

[Paraprakrti]

For all of you, what is the best way to forgive our enemies? I know that Jesus told us to forgive our enemies but how can we forgive them in spite of the fact that they hurted us in many ways? Please give a practical advice. If possible, please give your own experience(s).Thanks!

The following seems applicable:

"Let me offer my respectful obeisances unto the Supreme Personality of Godhead, whose external energy has created distinctions of "my friend" and "my enemy" by deluding the intelligence of men." -Prahlada Maharaja (Bhag. 7.5.11)

In other words, this idea of "my friend" and "my enemy" based upon material circumstances is an illusion. The best advice, in my opinion, is to focus on God and understand that everyone is related to Him and to each other through Him. Take these "friends" and "enemies" with a grain of salt. It just so happens that one person is favorable toward you and another is unfavorable, and those circumstances could change at the drop of a hat. So don't invest so much emotion in those kinds of things. Be equipoised in God and you will be equipoised toward others.

 

[autonomous1one1]

Greetings. Let me humbly submit that here is another line of thought that can help one 'get over' hurt and therefore be more inclined to forgive. This line looks for the good that can come out of the offense no matter how bad it is. In a real sense the past is never done and we continue to create it by the meaning and value we attach to it in the present. For example, how many times have we seen someone turn their bad experience into help for others who might be under similar circumstances?

Regards,
a..1

 

[Renji]

In other words, this idea of "my friend" and "my enemy" based upon material circumstances is an illusion. It just so happens that one person is favorable toward you and another is unfavorable, and those circumstances could change at the drop of a hat.

Not in the Christian faith. In our scripture, Jesus told something about our enemies: "But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you" - Jesus of Nazareth, as recorded in Matthew 5:44 (NIV translation). A person will not hate someone with no particular reason. If that happens, I think there is something wrong with that person's mentality. But I agree of your answer on how to forgive someone.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Not in the Christian faith. In our scripture, Jesus told something about our enemies: "But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you" - Jesus of Nazareth, as recorded in Matthew 5:44 (NIV translation). A person will not hate someone with no particular reason. If that happens, I think there is something wrong with that person's mentality. But I agree of your answer on how to forgive someone.

It is my understanding that the teaching of Jesus was inspired by the same Universal Divine Truth that inspired Lao Tzu to teach,..

The inconceivable is the essence of the all encompassing Infinite.
Conceiving and describing applies only to the manifestations of Infinity.
Within potential is the essence of Infinity.

Only when one distinguishes beauty
does one create the unattractive.
Only when one distinguishes good
does one create evil.

Also by distinction, tangible and intangible create each other,
Difficult and easy define each other,
Long and short measure each other,
High and low determine each other,
Sound and silence echo each other,
Beginning and end follow each other.

And in Isaiah 45.7.
"I alone am God. I form the light and create the dark. I make the good and create evil.’’

Please note how the Jesus, Taoist, Zen, etc., understanding appears to be an antidote for those who are addicted to the continued metaphorical eating of the fruit of the tree of "Knowledge of Good and Evil". ie. dualistic discriminatory thinking.

From Tao te Ching 20.2.
Without knowledge there is no difference between good and evil,

IOW, IMHO, the allegorical Fall story of Genesis coincides with the development of the discriminating ego mind of evolving man. Jesus was able to transcend the 'maya' of the dualistic mind and become one with the Oneness, ie the Father and I are one.

 

[Renji]

Greetings. Let me humbly submit that here is another line of thought that can help one 'get over' hurt and therefore be more inclined to forgive. This line looks for the good that can come out of the offense no matter how bad it is. In a real sense the past is never done and we continue to create it by the meaning and value we attach to it in the present. For example, how many times have we seen someone turn their bad experience into help for others who might be under similar circumstances?

Just like the saying: "Forget the past, and look to the future". That way,( I suppose) one can easily forgive.

 

[Paraprakrti]

Not in the Christian faith. In our scripture, Jesus told something about our enemies: "But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you" - Jesus of Nazareth, as recorded in Matthew 5:44 (NIV translation). A person will not hate someone with no particular reason. If that happens, I think there is something wrong with that person's mentality. But I agree of your answer on how to forgive someone.

I think you agree on everything but are just misunderstanding. What I presented doesn't at all conflict with what Jesus taught. The distinction is on what basis we are loving or hating our "enemies" or "friends." If it is based on material circumstances, then the love or hate has no meaning. So the purport of that verse from the Bhagavatam is that we should not put so much value in these mundane affairs and should instead seek that transcendental love that doesn't divide people into "friends" and "enemies."

 

[.lava]

Not in the Christian faith. In our scripture, Jesus told something about our enemies: "But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you" - Jesus of Nazareth, as recorded in Matthew 5:44 (NIV translation). A person will not hate someone with no particular reason. If that happens, I think there is something wrong with that person's mentality. But I agree of your answer on how to forgive someone.

but he says 'pray for them', i think by 'your enemy' he refers to 'people who hates you, people who's hostile to you'. we don't have power to stop people being hostile but we are not obligated to hate back.

.

 

[Women_Of_Reason]

For all of you, what is the best way to forgive our enemies? I know that Jesus told us to forgive our enemies but how can we forgive them in spite of the fact that they hurted us in many ways? Please give a practical advice. If possible, please give your own experience(s).Thanks!

Forgiveness is overrated. Probably because of the bible... There is nothing noble about forgiving the murderer of one of your best friends. I should be ashamed of myself if ever I forgive this. End of story.

 

[.lava]

Forgiveness is overrated. Probably because of the bible... There is nothing noble about forgiving the murderer of one of your best friends. I should be ashamed of myself if ever I forgive this. End of story.

is forgiving equal being OK with it?

.

 

[Women_Of_Reason]

is forgiving equal being OK with it?

.

In the Christian sense, forgiveness means to stop feeling angry and not hoping that the person should have to pay for what he did...

So yeah, that or being OK with it seems, to me, synonymous.