To Be or Not To Be: your gender (Vivek R.)

[We Never Know]

Gee, that depends how you are defining "normal". Y'know, the thing you keep not doing.

I'm done playing word games with you.
Have a good day.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

I'm done playing word games with you.
Have a good day.

This really isn't a word game, it's incredibly basic. You made an argument about what is or isn't considered "normal", and another poster pointed out that what's "normal" and what's "uncommon" are often conflated, and that what you determine to be "normal" isn't objective.

Why don't you understand this? Doesn't it strike you as odd at you are so unwilling to express, in simple terms, what YOU meant when YOU used the label "normal"? That you come apart the moment someone presses you just a little bit on what that means than you have to call the very idea that you should define the term you are using as "word games"?

Nobody tricked you into making an argument that hinged on what you consider "normal" and yet not have a sufficiently well thought-out position on what "normal" meant that it falls apart when only slightly challenged by basic comparisons like "Is it normal to be left handed?" and "Being a women affects you medically - are women normal"?

 

[Kathryn]

Whew. reading through all this makes me so thankful that everything matches up on me. Which is very common!

 

[We Never Know]

What's normal can be an outcome of what's common,
especially when it's a useful trait, eg, high functioning
autism, aka, Silicon Valley Syndrome.

The Silicon Valley Syndrome, Autism and the Tech Industry

Neurodiversity and innovation, unmasking the connection

medium.com

Autism is a disability and yes with that disability they can lead a normal life.

 

[Kenny]

It's not so simple.

Actually, within XX and XY - it is that simple and we should be kind to those who are struggling with idendity.

From another thread....

It's simple! (to be or not to be revisited)

Not that it will help; homophobes are a resistant lot, but ... I happened upon a "United Humanists's Post" that I believe worthy of reposting: Rebecca Helm, a biologist and an assistant professor at the University of North Carolina, Asheville US writes: “Friendly neighborhood biologist here...

www.religiousforums.com

Excerpted...

What you are referencing are “anomalies” to which have to be medically treated.to bring them back to what it was suppose to be.

But it is a one way street. You try to bring anomalies back to normalcy not normalcy to anomalies.

 

[Revoltingest]

Autism is a disability and yes with that disability they can lead a normal life.

Autism is a spectrum. It's normal at the high
functioning end, & even superior regarding
technical accomplishment. So it can be an
ability rather than a disability.

 

[Kathryn]

TRUE STORY TIME:

Once I knew a man who seemed very womanly to me, He even had narrower shoulders and wider hips and I think he had some boobs. He spoke in a higher voice than the typical man as well. But he seemed to be very happily married to a woman, and he had two children, who looked exactly like him (they were both girls). He was very active in his church as well. I think and I could be wrong, but I think he decided that he was a man and should act like one, which he did. I mean, I even had people ask me if I thought he was a woman and I said that I didn't know but regardless of all that, he seemed happily married with kids.

 

[We Never Know]

Autism is a spectrum. It's normal at the high
functioning end, & even superior regarding
technical accomplishment. So it can be an
ability rather than a disability.

Its classified as a developmental disability. My youngest grandson is autistic.

Btw, my daughter is in her masters for child development and behavior health. My grandson helped steer her that way for more understanding.

 

[stvdv]

I suppose you'd oppose "killing" or "murdering" malignant
tumors too?

Show me where I said:
"I oppose killing?"

"too" implies "exactly that"

Show me where I claimed you said exactly that.

There you have it, what you asked for

 

[Revoltingest]

But it is a one way street. You try to bring anomalies back to normalcy not normalcy to anomalies.

It seems that your posts show a worldview
that's simple, biblical, & free of "anomalies".
Reality won't bow to that desire.

 

[Revoltingest]

Its classified as a developmental disability.

Classifications can & have changed when
they've turned out to be less than useful.

My youngest grandson is autistic.

Without saying where he is on the spectrum,
& how it affects him, this doesn't illustrate anything.

 

[Revoltingest]

"too" implies "exactly that"

There you have it, what you asked for

You imply.
I infer.

 

[Kathryn]

You imply.
I infer.

Thank goodness way less than 1 percent of people have gender dysphoria. Which means that over 99 percent of people do not have it.

What Is Gender Dysphoria?

Gender dysphoria occurs when people experience distress over a mismatch between their assigned gender and gender identity. Learn more about gender dysphoria.

www.verywellmind.com

 

[libre]

Autism is a spectrum. It's normal at the high
functioning end

I think you may misapprehend what is meant by the term autism spectrum.
The spectrum is not a linear continuum indicating the intensity of symptoms or how 'normal' an autistic person is.

There is no 'end' of the spectrum, it can be more accurately understood with visualizations like this:

 

[We Never Know]

Classifications can & have changed when
they've turned out to be less than useful.

Without saying where he is on the spectrum,
& how it affects him, this doesn't illustrate anything.

He is 3 years old. Just getting to the age where he can correctly be placed on the spectrum instead of assuming where he is.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Michael Jackson comes to mind in this context

He had vitiligo so it's not a good comparison.

Don't you think it's wise to solve the root trauma first? And some trauma experts even say that once you solve the root trauma, en passant later traumas could be solved also

Therapists actually do explore for things like this. And there has.been no research to suggest being trans is caused by trauma.

GD hormone therapy and surgery solves at best some symptoms, not the root cause

Do you even know the root cause? I have my doubts.

 

[We Never Know]

Thank goodness way less than 1 percent of people have gender dysphoria. Which means that over 99 percent of people do not have it.

What Is Gender Dysphoria?

Gender dysphoria occurs when people experience distress over a mismatch between their assigned gender and gender identity. Learn more about gender dysphoria.

www.verywellmind.com

Statistically if anything falls out of 95% of the population its considered abnormal.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

The common biblical view that there are 2
immutable sexes, & that this can never be
changed is a simplistic, backward, & dangerous
view for people whose circumstances weren't
knowable to ignorant goatherds who wrote
the Bible. (IMO)

Those ignorant goatherders were probably aware of, in a very broad sense, gender benders. They thought slinging birds blood around for a ritual (when leprosy has been cured) is a swell idea so of course they couldn't have known the neuropsychology behind it, but it was not ignorance but rather hatred and intolerance when they penned a man shall not wear that which pertains unto a woman.
Really, it's not ignorance but the same sort of bigotry we see here repeating the same lies thread after thread even if there is absolutely no way for it to be true (like all claims insisting trans care is new).

 

[icehorse]

Yes. It's sad they don't really care that what they want and insist on how things should be is to say they don't care if people like me suffer through life in profound ways they can never know or comprehend.

I have to assume I'm one of the targets of this comment? If so, I think you ought to be careful when you start talking about who cares and who doesn't.

For the record, I think it would be great if we had a reliable test to determine which kids with GD would grow out of it naturally (a lot of them), and which would ultimately be happier being trans. That would be fantastic, but no such test currently exists.

So this is a no-win situation, and we have to make hard decisions:

OTOH, we can put kids with GD thru GAC and for some of them, that is the best path. But the downside is that some of the kids who go thru GAC didn't need it, and we've unnecessarily damaged their bodies and medicalized them for life.

OTOH, we can delay GAC until people are adults. For those people who still want to transition, we know that waiting is not ideal. But for those people who grew out of their GD naturally (which is a lot of them), waiting is the best answer.

Neither approach is perfect. But long, long ago doctors decided that overall "first, do no harm" is the better approach.

But really, stop with the "we don't care" bull****.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Really! You are comparing being left handed and autism to being born with male dna, male sex organs and a female brain

I'm autistic and ambidextrous and, yes, I see it that way. Most people aren't that way but it's still normal if someone is. It's normal like being gay, amd indeed it wasn't that long ago when it was considered abnormal and homosexuals subjected to tortures such as electroshock therapy (it has a very narrow and limited clinical usefulness) and lobotomies (something that never had solid support from the medical community at large).