To the Non Believers.

[Valjean]

If you're here to explore theological ideas you must expect contetion.
Intellectuals are concerned with truth. To assist in ascertaining truth intellectuals assist each other's quests by pointing out logical flaws in each other's arguments. Among intellectuals "agreeable' is an insult. The only proper and respectful response to a theory is to attack it. To do otherwise would be an insult.

 

[Badran]

If you're here to explore theological ideas you must expect contetion.
Intellectuals are concerned with truth. To assist in ascertaining truth intellectuals assist each other's quests by pointing out logical flaws in each other's arguments. Among intellectuals "agreeable' is an insult. The only proper and respectful response to a theory is to attack it. To do otherwise would be an insult.

Is this addressed to me?

 

[DeitySlayer]

It comes down to the interpretation of the religion. Yes, I do believe that, as an example, the Taliban are in it purely for religious motivations. They are not using religion as a tool. What kind of idiot would want to spend their life holed up in freezing mountains fighting a dangerous guerilla war against the world's largest superpower? They're doing it because they are motivated by their interpretation of Islam, which they believe is correct, and whereby they believe that Allah is commanding them unequivocally to slaughter non-Muslims or convert them by force.

This is an undeniable fact. Religion drives people to do evil things.

However, it would be innacurate to say that all Muslims do this. It is only the Muslims who interpret the Qu'ran in that particular way who do this. Islam and every other world faith is not one solid block of beliefs; everyone has different interpretations. Religion can be a force for good in this world, and what must be done is not to cut it away entirely, but to cut away the dangerous and evil interpretations, like the Taliban.

 

[Badran]

It comes down to the interpretation of the religion. Yes, I do believe that, as an example, the Taliban are in it purely for religious motivations. They are not using religion as a tool. What kind of idiot would want to spend their life holed up in freezing mountains fighting a dangerous guerilla war against the world's largest superpower? They're doing it because they are motivated by their interpretation of Islam, which they believe is correct, and whereby they believe that Allah is commanding them unequivocally to slaughter non-Muslims or convert them by force.

This is an undeniable fact. Religion drives people to do evil things.

Yes, but don't you think generalizing this as a proof that Islam is evil is wrong?

Especially that there is no way to be sure what are the intentions of the leaders of Taliban.

 

[I.S.L.A.M617]

Yes, but don't you think generalizing this as a proof that Islam is evil is wrong?

Especially that there is no way to be sure what are the intentions of the leaders of Taliban.

I agree, it is wrong to judge the Muslim community as a whole because of the views of the Taliban. But at the same time, Islam itself does have some culpability in the matter. If the scriptures referring to the slaughter of inifidels was never in the Qur'an in the first place, it would be a lot harder for these extremists to justify these acts in the name of religion. I don't want you to think I'm singling out Muslims though. The same goes for Christians and Jews too, who also do the exact same thing, based on more or less the same scriptures.

 

[DeitySlayer]

Yes, but don't you think generalizing this as a proof that Islam is evil is wrong?

Read the second paragraph.

Especially that there is no way to be sure what are the intentions of the leaders of Taliban

Well I'm pretty sure they're not holed up in the freezing Tora Bora mountain range getting shot to shreds by US gunships for personal benefit.

 

[Badran]

I agree, it is wrong to judge the Muslim community as a whole because of the views of the Taliban. But at the same time, Islam itself does have some culpability in the matter. If the scriptures referring to the slaughter of inifidels was never in the Qur'an in the first place, it would be a lot harder for these extremists to justify these acts in the name of religion. I don't want you to think I'm singling out Muslims though. The same goes for Christians and Jews too, who also do the exact same thing, based on more or less the same scriptures.

Thank you.

I know the verses you are referring to hold some suspicion or leave some room for those who want to interpret it otherwise, but any Muslim who is honest and is interpreting them neutrally and not to meet his desired outcome, will realize it doesn't mean what those people claim that it means.

 

[Badran]

Well I'm pretty sure they're not holed up in the freezing Tora Bora mountain range getting shot to shreds by US gunships for personal benefit.

Yes but pretty sure isn't an evidence, it isn't a fact. While it sure seems that way, but there are other options as to why they are doing this.

 

[YmirGF]

If you're here to explore theological ideas you must expect contetion.
Intellectuals are concerned with truth. To assist in ascertaining truth intellectuals assist each other's quests by pointing out logical flaws in each other's arguments. Among intellectuals "agreeable' is an insult. The only proper and respectful response to a theory is to attack it. To do otherwise would be an insult.

I agree 100%. The potential for growth is incredible when you are forced to defend what you think. It certainly separates the wheat from the chaff.

 

[darkendless]

I agree 100%. The potential for growth is incredible when you are forced to defend what you think. It certainly separates the wheat from the chaff.

A lot of people don't like to learn. You give them facts they give you scripture.

People are too easily offended because they can't handle criticism because they were never taught science in schools which deals with criticising everything to find the most appropriate solution.

It only ever gets worse.

 

[logician]

A lot of people don't like to learn. You give them facts they give you scripture.

People are too easily offended because they can't handle criticism because they were never taught science in schools which deals with criticising everything to find the most appropriate solution.

It only ever gets worse.

Or people are so ingrained in tradition they do not dare question anything pertaning to their own beliefs - it would literally destroy their world, at least they think it would.

 

[Archer]

The issue, for me anyway, is the attitude some get when they post in a new thread.

Another is posting just to talk *****. I can take all the criticism but to just say I am lying or wrong is another thing entirely. I have asked for backup many times and the subject was changed and many times have provided said backup just to have it ignored.

Debates are fine but people need answer with some backup and swallow the pride when the opposition does the same. I have issues with the latter myself.

 

[darkendless]

The issue, for me anyway, is the attitude some get when they post in a new thread.

Another is posting just to talk *****. I can take all the criticism but to just say I am lying or wrong is another thing entirely. I have asked for backup many times and the subject was changed and many times have provided said backup just to have it ignored.

Debates are fine but people need answer with some backup and swallow the pride when the opposition does the same. I have issues with the latter myself.

The main issue in my time here has been differing levels of respect for scripture.

For you, its evidence.

For me, where's wally is just as good as the bible.

Thats a boundary that can never be broken. Then there's the faith card. Too often i've seen theists say that they have faith that X is this. How can you debate that without calling them a liar or calling them dead wrong? Its hard to respect the bible as it so obviously leads away from an informed discussion in threads which deal with my area's of expertise. Its infuriating sometimes.

 

[whereismynotecard]

Why is it a constant believer bashing around here?

Why? Are you looking for understanding of what is incomprehensible to you?
Are you missing something in your life and feel that you must make others like you?

I have heard religion blamed for everything but the people are individuals and think for themselves. I say dont blame the faith or the believers just take it out on the individuals.

Please explain to me why the constant attack on religion.

Why are you hating on all non-believers for what specific people said about religion? That sounds sort of hypocritical to me. If you have a problem, take it up with the individual person. Don't make a thread addressed to all "non-believers."

 

[Wotan]

You believers can make all the excuse you want, explain away every atrocity done in the name of your god, separate yourselves form the violence and intolerance and apologize for anything ever done in the name of your "faith."

You get away from this simple fact.


If you don't believe in a god you will not kill in its name. You can't escape that.

We need to throw ALL these myths into the ash can of history where they belong. We need to grow up as a species. Take responsibility for our own actions and throw this childish crutch of "god help me" or "god willing" if god allows" and DO for ourselves by ourselves.

 

[Archer]

The main issue in my time here has been differing levels of respect for scripture.

For you, its evidence.

For me, where's wally is just as good as the bible.

Thats a boundary that can never be broken. Then there's the faith card. Too often i've seen theists say that they have faith that X is this. How can you debate that without calling them a liar or calling them dead wrong? Its hard to respect the bible as it so obviously leads away from an informed discussion in threads which deal with my area's of expertise. Its infuriating sometimes.

Most of my issues pertaining to backup are scriptural. If it says it it says it. Same applies to where's wally.

Why are you hating on all non-believers for what specific people said about religion? That sounds sort of hypocritical to me. If you have a problem, take it up with the individual person. Don't make a thread addressed to all "non-believers."

I am not and please don't take it that I am.

You believers can make all the excuse you want, explain away every atrocity done in the name of your god, separate yourselves form the violence and intolerance and apologize for anything ever done in the name of your "faith."

You get away from this simple fact.


If you don't believe in a god you will not kill in its name. You can't escape that.

We need to throw ALL these myths into the ash can of history where they belong. We need to grow up as a species. Take responsibility for our own actions and throw this childish crutch of "god help me" or "god willing" if god allows" and DO for ourselves by ourselves.

And this is an example of what I speak. Killing for any reason is wrong. Show me the numbers and we can debate your point until then your point is moot.

 

[darkendless]

Most of my issues pertaining to backup are scriptural. If it says it it says it. Same applies to where's wally.

Yes but the bible is old, there's no concrete evidence on who wrote it, who changed it, or how authentic it really is.

If you analysed texts, the bible would be one of the worst possible acedemic sources avaliable.

 

[Wotan]

Most of my issues pertaining to backup are scriptural. If it says it it says it. Same applies to where's wally.



I am not and please don't take it that I am.



And this is an example of what I speak. Killing for any reason is wrong. Show me the numbers and we can debate your point until then your point is moot.

No you can't. Numbers don't matter. The defense of "so's your old man" is NO defense.

If you don't believe in god you will not kill in its name.

THAT is the point.

 

[Azakel]

Why is it a constant believer bashing around here?

Really? I'm a Theist and I don't feel attacked. Maybe it just you and not having thick skin.
I do think it's easy to just say that there attacks because you just don't like what's being said, but you can hear there tone of voice so you have no idea how it's coming off like. So in turn you make it out to be attack just because you don't like what they are talking about.
At lest this is how I see it.

 

[I.S.L.A.M617]

You believers can make all the excuse you want, explain away every atrocity done in the name of your god, separate yourselves form the violence and intolerance and apologize for anything ever done in the name of your "faith."

You get away from this simple fact.


If you don't believe in a god you will not kill in its name. You can't escape that.

We need to throw ALL these myths into the ash can of history where they belong. We need to grow up as a species. Take responsibility for our own actions and throw this childish crutch of "god help me" or "god willing" if god allows" and DO for ourselves by ourselves.

I'll drink to that.