To the Non Believers.

[Badran]

Really? I'm a Theist and I don't feel attacked. Maybe it just you and not having thick skin.
I do think it's easy to just say that there attacks because you just don't like what's being said, but you can hear there tone of voice so you have no idea how it's coming off like. So in turn you make it out to be attack just because you don't like what they are talking about.
At lest this is how I see it.

I agree with you. It is not always attack, and actually i've talked about God and everything about him with a lot of Atheists and others who don't believe in God, and they made valid arguments without showing any disrespect.

Sometimes however that is not the case. I don't think the OP is generalizing, i'm not sure. It is obvious though that it happens a lot that the sarcasm and offense against one's belief are a bit too much. Especially like it have been pointed out already, when the claims being made are not backed up with evidence. Which is the same thing Atheists criticize about theists.

What i'm trying to say is, that i hope you'll at least agree that what he is talking about, while not being the case always, or most of the time, it still happens sometimes, and i can't see what's wrong with him pointing that out.

 

[Azakel]

Why is it a constant believer bashing around here?

Why? Are you looking for understanding of what is incomprehensible to you?
Are you missing something in your life and feel that you must make others like you?

I have heard religion blamed for everything but the people are individuals and think for themselves. I say dont blame the faith or the believers just take it out on the individuals.

Please explain to me why the constant attack on religion.

There is no doubt that there are a few Atheist on here that will do nothing but ridicule and attack Theism and religion. But most often then not I just think there trying to get there point across to certain Theist who are closed-minded and both ignorant and arrogant, and sadly the only why to get though to people like that is to sound a bit, hard and 'mean'. And usually Theist like you and I can get caught up in it. I for the most part don't reply because I know that I'm not in that group they speak off(and I know the Atheist here who are smart and knowledgeable to not mean what they generalize).
But mostly the same can't be said for Theist that make these kinds of Threads or statements like that. They don't really seem to know what they're talking about at all.

 

[Autodidact]

In this thread we see a pattern that illustrates some of the problem. A theist, Archer, makes an assertion: there are a lot of attack threads. Three times now I've asked him just to support his assertion by providing us with examples. He has rudely, or perhaps cowardly, I don't know, ignored my polite, reasonable request. That's the kind of behavior that I attack. Not your religion, Archer, but your debate tactics.

 

[Archer]

In this thread we see a pattern that illustrates some of the problem. A theist, Archer, makes an assertion: there are a lot of attack threads. Three times now I've asked him just to support his assertion by providing us with examples. He has rudely, or perhaps cowardly, I don't know, ignored my polite, reasonable request. That's the kind of behavior that I attack. Not your religion, Archer, but your debate tactics.

Look at your tone. Perhaps attack is a little harsh of a term for most of the annoyances we cause each other. Read through almost any thread and you will see belittlement (I guess on both sides but I usually don't go along and participate in every thread so I really would not know). You know we have a rule around here about proselytizing and honestly that is how I see it coming from Atheists at times. Oh wait that cant happen because there is no higher power than man so I guess they are off the hook.

In other threads you ignore my requests for backup so I feel like I should do the same.

 

[Autodidact]

Look at your tone. Perhaps attack is a little harsh of a term for most of the annoyances we cause each other. Read through almost any thread and you will see belittlement (I guess on both sides but I usually don't go along and participate in every thread so I really would not know). You know we have a rule around here about proselytizing and honestly that is how I see it coming from Atheists at times. Oh wait that cant happen because there is no higher power than man so I guess they are off the hook.

In other threads you ignore my requests for backup so I feel like I should do the same.

No, I don't. If you think I have done so, please provide an example. Oh wait, you don't feel the need to do that. Never mind.

Asking you three times to provide an example of your OP is not proselytizing, not belittlement, and not an attack on religion. It's a reasonable request, and it's just plain rude to ignore it.

It also reveals that you don't actually have one.

This is a very common pattern around here.

 

[Archer]

No, I don't. If you think I have done so, please provide an example. Oh wait, you don't feel the need to do that. Never mind.

Asking you three times to provide an example of your OP is not proselytizing, not belittlement, and not an attack on religion. It's a reasonable request, and it's just plain rude to ignore it.

It also reveals that you don't actually have one.

This is a very common pattern around here.

There's no lumping involved, Archer. The people committing this evil are religionists, speaking, believing and acting on behalf of their religion. Apparently their religion consists of a set of primitive prejudices that need to be eradicated, so that children can benefit from scientific progress and not be paralysed.

That is an attack on believers.

I asked you for more but nothing. You make it sound as if Atheists never do these things. Mao-Stalin

 

[ImmortalFlame]

That is an attack on believers.

I asked you for more but nothing. You make it sound as if Atheists never do these things. Mao-Stalin

If these "attacks on believers" are as common as you claim they are, why are you so hesitant to provide examples? The example in this post can barely be considered an attack.

 

[I.S.L.A.M617]

That is an attack on believers.

I asked you for more but nothing. You make it sound as if Atheists never do these things. Mao-Stalin

Mao and Stalin never did anything in the name of religion...

 

[tumbleweed41]

Persecution Syndrome is a phrase coined to describe those who feign persecution in order to draw attention to themselves or their cause, and dissuade any attacks or criticism on said cause or person.

 

[Autodidact]

That is an attack on believers.

I asked you for more but nothing. You make it sound as if Atheists never do these things. Mao-Stalin

Well, what part of what I said do you disagree? Are these clerics spreading these superstition not theists? Do they not tell us they are doing it because of their religion? And is that religion not a collection of harmful superstitition?

It's not about whether Mao was an atheist, but whether he did what he did because he was an atheist. In other words, it's not about the people, it's about their beliefs. Religion is a belief. These people tell you, in their own words, that they're preventing children from growing up healthy because of their beliefs. So no, I have no respect whatsoever for that belief.

 

[Autodidact]

That is an attack on believers.

Actually, it's a statement of fact. I realize it's an uncomfortable fact for you, but I'm not willing to be quiet about it to make you comfortable. Children's lives are at stake.

 

[I.S.L.A.M617]

Well, what part of what I said do you disagree? Are these clerics spreading these superstition not theists? Do they not tell us they are doing it because of their religion? And is that religion not a collection of harmful superstitition?

It's not about whether Mao was an atheist, but whether he did what he did because he was an atheist. In other words, it's not about the people, it's about their beliefs. Religion is a belief. These people tell you, in their own words, that they're preventing children from growing up healthy because of their beliefs. So no, I have no respect whatsoever for that belief.

Thank you. People are so quick to throw out Mao and Stalin as examples of "evil atheism". Nothing these men ever did was on behalf of atheism. I actually like Mao, but that's a discussion for another thread.

 

[Archer]

Actually, it's a statement of fact. I realize it's an uncomfortable fact for you, but I'm not willing to be quiet about it to make you comfortable. Children's lives are at stake.

Again I say where is your backup for the statements?

 

[Autodidact]

Again I say where is your backup for the statements?

For what statements? Are you denying that the Muslim clerics in Nigeria and elsewhere who are instructing their followers not to immunize their children against polio are doing so because of their religious beliefs? What, are they lying? They say so.

Still waiting for those example of attack threads, Archer, the subject of your thread? Surely, if you're so upset about them, you must have several examples for us. I even gave you an anti-atheist attack thread. Didn't catch your interest for some reason.

 

[Archer]

Mao and Stalin never did anything in the name of religion...

That is what I am saying but there again even Atheisim is a religon:

re·li·gion /rɪˈlɪdʒ

ən/ [ri-lij-uh

n]


–noun1. a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.
2. a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.
3. the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices: a world council of religions.
4. the life or state of a monk, nun, etc.: to enter religion.
5. the practice of religious beliefs; ritual observance of faith.
6. something one believes in and follows devotedly; a point or matter of ethics or conscience: to make a religion of fighting prejudice.
7. religions, Archaic. religious rites.
8. Archaic. strict faithfulness; devotion: a religion to one's vow.

You believers can make all the excuse you want, explain away every atrocity done in the name of your god, separate yourselves form the violence and intolerance and apologize for anything ever done in the name of your "faith."

You get away from this simple fact.


If you don't believe in a god you will not kill in its name. You can't escape that.

We need to throw ALL these myths into the ash can of history where they belong. We need to grow up as a species. Take responsibility for our own actions and throw this childish crutch of "god help me" or "god willing" if god allows" and DO for ourselves by ourselves.

No backup, only opinion no facts.

If you really need me to I can do this all night but the fact is statements like these are calling everyone of faith a murder or an accomplice or because they don't turn their back on their faith.

Is this not saying that people of faith are immature and that they need turn their back on any faith? That being the case is this not proselytizing?

If I were to say you need to turn your back on your sinful ways and accept Jesus into your heart so that you do not face eternal damnation I think I would have issues.

 

[Badran]

These people tell you, in their own words, that they're preventing children from growing up healthy because of their beliefs. So no, I have no respect whatsoever for that belief.

Yes you would be correct on this. Unless they are Lying.

I'm sure you don't usually just take someone's word for whatever they say for granted. So i can't see why you do that now.

 

[Autodidact]

That is what I am saying but there again even Atheisim is a religon:

re·li·gion /rɪˈlɪdʒ

ən/ [ri-lij-uh

n]


–noun1. a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.
2. a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.
3. the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices: a world council of religions.
4. the life or state of a monk, nun, etc.: to enter religion.
5. the practice of religious beliefs; ritual observance of faith.
6. something one believes in and follows devotedly; a point or matter of ethics or conscience: to make a religion of fighting prejudice.
7. religions, Archaic. religious rites.
8. Archaic. strict faithfulness; devotion: a religion to one's vow.

No, it's not, but it's irrelevant.

No backup, only opinion no facts.

That would be you.

If you really need me to I can do this all night but the fact is statements like these are calling everyone of faith a murder or an accomplice or because they don't turn their back on their faith.

No they don't. It's simple fact that throughout history religionists have slaughtered other people on behalf of and because of their religion. As I said, this may be a very uncomfortable fact for you, but it's a fact nonetheless.

Is this not saying that people of faith are immature and that they need turn their back on any faith? That being the case is this not proselytizing?

No, it's not.

If I were to say you need to turn your back on your sinful ways and accept Jesus into your heart so that you do not face eternal damnation I think I would have issues.

Because it would be proseltyzing. YOu seem to have difficulty telling the difference between proselytizing and arguing.

 

[Autodidact]

Yes you would be correct on this. Unless they are Lying.

I'm sure you don't usually just take someone's word for whatever they say for granted. So i can't see why you do that now.

Well, why would they do that? What would they hope to gain from it? And if so, why is it only superstitious religionists who do it? What do you think their motive is? If these villagers weren't religious, would it work?

Are you trying to tell me you don't blame religion for these actions?

 

[Badran]

Well, why would they do that? What would they hope to gain from it? And if so, why is it only superstitious religionists who do it? What do you think their motive is? If these villagers weren't religious, would it work?

Are you trying to tell me you don't blame religion for these actions?

I blame the religious leaders who have no dignity or integrity, and lie or delude their followers. I also blame the followers for not thinking for them selves.

Religion's role in this is that those religious leaders use it as a tool to oppress or fool their followers. However, bad people always find a way or a tool to cover their acts, just like in politics the term "National Security" have been used as a tool to do unspeakable acts, and rely on people's fear to get away with it.

I understand the concern that you have and that Msizer have for those people who are being hurt by their religious leaders. All i'm asking you is to blame it on people, there have always and will always be bad leaders, who will do anything to control their people. I just think judging religion through it's worst examples is not fair.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

–noun1. a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.
2. a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.

Atheism does not fit that definition at all. It is not a "set of beliefs" and there are no "practices". Atheism is a singular position on a singular subject - that is a non-belief in a God or Gods.

3. the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices: a world council of religions.

Again, atheism does not have a set of beliefs or practices.

6. something one believes in and follows devotedly; a point or matter of ethics or conscience: to make a religion of fighting prejudice.

See above. Atheism has no individual set of ethics tied to it, and there are no unified atheist causes.