To the Non Believers.

[Wotan]

"Well wasn't what you said, that if a person doesn't believe in God, he wouldn't kill in his name?"

Yes. Which makes such a believe a NECESSARY but not sufficient condition for killing.

But your mythology claims that believing this stuff makes one a better more moral more honest more etc. etc, etc. person. And that is the assumption behind your argument that you are simply spouting. Good god fearing bible believing folk don't kill.

Well I got news for kid. Some DO.

So your wonderful religion so full of the milk of human kindness and god's love and the brotherhood of man etc, etc, etc, don't stop nuttin. And IN FACT gives those so inclined yet ANOTHER reason to kill and maim. But you are so blinded by this mythology you can't even GRASP this simple argument.

 

[DeitySlayer]

About the AHA What is this? There all different types but a religion it is by definition. You say you share no common beliefs but neither do Jew's, Christians or Muslims (I mean groups within each faith) so you argument is lacking.

@ Willamena It is a mindset and set of beliefs. It can be individual or group. I am looking at large groups that have a lack of belief in God as strong as those who believe. Look at some of the Atheist agenda only carried out by large groups having one main belief.

I am not saying that all of those that do not believe in a Higher power of any type hold this as a religion just as lumping the faithful into chunks is wrong. If the organized Atheist groups with an anti God agenda are not acting like an organized Religion than the word needs a new definition.

Archer, saying atheism is a religion is like saying health is a disease. Atheism is the abscence of religion and nothing else.

 

[Archer]

"If you really need me to I can do this all night but the fact is statements like these are calling everyone of faith a murder or an accomplice or because they don't turn their back on their faith."

No, that is not what I said. Do you have a problem with reading comprehension?

If you do not believe in a god you will not kill in its name.​

And from that you get I am "calling everyone of faith a murder(er)?" You simply have NOT read it thought about it or given ANY serious attention to it.

Believe in a god is a necessary but NOT sufficient cause for killing in his name. This is so obvious it need not be even spoken. Millions of believers -devout believers - wouldn't harm a fly.

But our poster here simply has not read deeply or thought deeply about what he has "read."

And I submit this is not unusual. In general the arguments advanced by theists are simplistic and intellectually shallow and often nothing but regurgitated dogma. But they are advanced in all seriousness as if there actually were serious, powerful, well reasoned and compelling. And this is often done in good faith. They sincerely BELIEVE they have made some profound argument by simply repeating what they have been taught.:sad:

This is one of the reasons I maintain that simply believing this stuff actually corrodes the ability to reason. And leads to the error here displayed.

The inability to grasp the distinction between a necessary cause and a sufficient one.

You are so full of yourself I dont know where to start. For one thing you and those like you leave a bad taste in the mouths of believers because of your blanket accusations about believers being dangerous and following God being the root cause of most killing and such. I presented proof of you atheist murderers killing in the name of progress and crap like that. You cant even argue that point so the validity of your argument is moot and your religion in the eyes of most believers is that of murder and rampant liberalism. If that does not compute then you need to take a comprehension class.

 

[Archer]

Archer, saying atheism is a religion is like saying health is a disease. Atheism is the abscence of religion and nothing else.

If it smells like a religion, acts like religion and causes the same types of issues as religion then a spade is a spade.

 

[Badran]

But your mythology claims that believing this stuff makes one a better more moral more honest more etc. etc, etc. person. And that is the assumption behind your argument that you are simply spouting. Good god fearing bible believing folk don't kill.

No it doesn't. You just claimed it does. I have never claimed that believing in God and following religion makes one a better person. A person makes himself a better person. Believing in God for me, is the belief in what is true (for me) and that's it.

Well I got news for kid. Some DO.

So your wonderful religion so full of the milk of human kindness and god's love and the brotherhood of man etc, etc, etc, don't stop nuttin. And IN FACT gives those so inclined yet ANOTHER reason to kill and maim. But you are so blinded by this mythology you can't even GRASP this simple argument.

I never claimed that all religious people are good, or that if they believe in it, they can't be bad. You just made another assumption.

 

[DeitySlayer]

If it smells like a religion, acts like religion and causes the same types of issues as religion then a spade is a spade.

Does it smell like a religion? No, because religion has no smell.

Does it act like a religion? No, because it is not a single unified body under a universally accepted governing body. It has no rituals or ceremonies.

Does it cause the same types of issues as religion? No, because no one has killed in the name of there being no God, started a war over there being no God, etcetera

 

[LuisDantas]

If it smells like a religion, acts like religion and causes the same types of issues as religion then a spade is a spade.

That, or there is something wrong with your sense of smell, your perception of said acts and/or your understanding of said issues.

As it turns out, you are quite mistaken in the matter of "issues caused", at the very least. Unless, I suppose, there's some sacred Atheist Army out there that I've never heard of.

 

[Archer]

That, or there is something wrong with your sense of smell, your perception of said acts and/or your understanding of said issues.

As it turns out, you are quite mistaken in the matter of "issues caused", at the very least. Unless, I suppose, there's some sacred Atheist Army out there that I've never heard of.

I think my point may have been missed, probably my fault. Athiest groups and yes they are there act just like a Religious group. They complain about the fundies trying to prevent them from having their murderous agenda and the like so yes they act like a religion.

Per the definition religion does not need a god to be a religion. All athiests may not be religous in the dislike of the fact that some of us have God but the groups trying to remove God are a religion.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

I disagree but I guess it is all about how you see it. I see many Atheists with an agenda. They have groups and want God removed from everything. Sounds like religion to me.

Except that those groups to "remove God from everything" are not atheistic. Separation of church and state is supported by atheists and theists alike.

BTW what is this?: Do something, Learn something, Share something, Change something - Meetup.com

@Auto the numbers of 3 dictators add up to over 50,000,000 a lot more than that. Now take central and south america as well as SE Asia into consideration. I dont here them saying they did it for God. You do the math.

They didn't - nor did they do it "for atheism".

Christians don't just do these things. Don't get me wrong there have been many murders in the name of Man because he said God led him but get with it don't you think these people had a pretty good idea what they were doing was wrong?

Nonsense. Religion can be used to provide justification for just about any horrendous act. Do you think Hitler would of killed Jews had it not been for the history of religious intolerance against Jews in the Roman Catholic Church?

By the way the definition of attack: transitive verb
1 : to set upon or work against forcefully
2 : to assail with unfriendly or bitter words
3 : to begin to affect or to act on injuriously <plants attacked by aphids>
4 : to set to work on <attack a problem>
5 : to threaten (a piece in chess) with immediate capture

And yet you can't find a single example of any of these things on this board.

This is where the numbers come from: DEATH BY GOVERNMENT: GENOCIDE AND MASS MURDER

This is the link to the article: http://www.newscholars.com/papers/Killing, Christianity, and Atheism.pdf

So, why is it that when an atheist causes something it's because of their atheism (in spite of the fact that it never has anything to do with their atheism), while - as you say above - whenever somebody religious does something and uses religion to justify it it's not religion's fault?

Seems hypocritical to me.

And yes, I doubt those numbers are remotely accurate.

 

[Magic Man]

I think my point may have been missed, probably my fault. Athiest groups and yes they are there act just like a Religious group. They complain about the fundies trying to prevent them from having their murderous agenda and the like so yes they act like a religion.

Per the definition religion does not need a god to be a religion. All athiests may not be religous in the dislike of the fact that some of us have God but the groups trying to remove God are a religion.

It's hard to figure from that incoherent rant, but it seems you're still under the false impression that atheism is a religion. Again, it is not.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

If it smells like a religion, acts like religion and causes the same types of issues as religion then a spade is a spade.

Except it does none of those things.

 

[LuisDantas]

I think my point may have been missed, probably my fault. Athiest groups and yes they are there act just like a Religious group.

Maybe so, in some sense that is probably meaningful to you. Unfortunately such a meaning is simply not coming through to us.

They complain about the fundies trying to prevent them from having their murderous agenda and the like so yes they act like a religion.

WTF? So that Sacred Atheist Army does exist after all?

Worse of all, they have reached out for you but not for me?

I'm so sad now. I feel left out.

Per the definition religion does not need a god to be a religion. All athiests may not be religous in the dislike of the fact that some of us have God but the groups trying to remove God are a religion.

Not too many Atheists activelly dislike Theism. It is far more common to simply don't want to bother with it. From our perspective, there is no such fact for us to dislike.

And what would a group trying to remove God be like, anyway? I have no idea. It doesn't even make logical sense as a goal.

 

[tumbleweed41]

They complain about the fundies trying to prevent them from having their murderous agenda and the like so yes they act like a religion.

Basically this thread can be boiled down to...

"Quit saying bad things about religious people you murderous bunch of godless atheists!!!"

Pathetic really.

 

[Wotan]

You are so full of yourself I dont know where to start. For one thing you and those like you leave a bad taste in the mouths of believers because of your blanket accusations about believers being dangerous and following God being the root cause of most killing and such. I presented proof of you atheist murderers killing in the name of progress and crap like that. You cant even argue that point so the validity of your argument is moot and your religion in the eyes of most believers is that of murder and rampant liberalism. If that does not compute then you need to take a comprehension class.

Killing in the name of "progress" is not killing in the name of "god."

There is nothing wrong with "rampant liberalism." Just why is that relevant to this discussion . . .?

". . . blanket accusations about believers being dangerous and following God being the root cause of most killing and such."

Here's another one who can't grasp a simple argument. It is NOT a blanket accusation. READ #169.

Geez some of these religious wackos are just INCAPABLE of getting any NEW idea into their heads. The belief in their mythology just won't allow it.

 

[JustWondering2]

From wiki - Atheism

Atheists tend to lean towards skepticism regarding supernatural claims, citing a lack of empirical evidence. Common rationales for not believing in any deity include the problem of evil, the argument from inconsistent revelations, and the argument from nonbelief. Other arguments for atheism range from the philosophical to the social to the historical. Although some atheists tend toward secular philosophies such as humanism,[10] rationalism, and naturalism,[11] there is no one ideology or set of behaviors to which all atheists adhere.[12]

 

[Archer]

Except that those groups to "remove God from everything" are not atheistic. Separation of church and state is supported by atheists and theists alike.


They didn't - nor did they do it "for atheism".


Nonsense. Religion can be used to provide justification for just about any horrendous act. Do you think Hitler would of killed Jews had it not been for the history of religious intolerance against Jews in the Roman Catholic Church?


And yet you can't find a single example of any of these things on this board.


So, why is it that when an atheist causes something it's because of their atheism (in spite of the fact that it never has anything to do with their atheism), while - as you say above - whenever somebody religious does something and uses religion to justify it it's not religion's fault?

Seems hypocritical to me.

And yes, I doubt those numbers are remotely accurate.

I will answer only one because I just don't like to repeat myself but you are wrong in the eyes of the majority.

As to this? Well it is quite simple. I hear atheists speak of their moral supremacy and then I see posts like the ones blaming faith for atrocities and still nothing of any substance to retort my post. Stop grasping at straws and show me the difference! It is about people not faith yet every time you hear the battle cry of the evil believers.

 

[Wotan]

" I have never claimed that believing in God and following religion makes one a better person. A person makes himself a better person. Believing in God for me, is the belief in what is true (for me) and that's it."

That MAY be true for YOU personally. But your religion and the other variants of it disagree. In fact we are told daily that personal morality and eternal salvation are the reasons why one must be a believer.

Otherwise one becomes a godless amoral atheist who kills kittens and roasts 4 mon old babies for picnics.

Or kills in the name of progress.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

As to this? Well it is quite simple. I hear atheists speak of their moral supremacy and then I see posts like the ones blaming faith for atrocities and still nothing of any substance to retort my post. Stop grasping at straws and show me the difference! It is about people not faith yet every time you hear the battle cry of the evil believers.

You're the one claiming that atheism causes more harm than theism, and yet have never been able to link the two directly.

On the other hand, you cannot deny that religion is the root cause of slavery, genocide, witch hunts, crusades, inquisitions, civil wars, torture, terrorism and the protection of pedophiles.

Are atheists morally superior? I don't know - but what I do know is that it is logically impossible to use a disbelief in a God or Gods as justification for any of the above acts.

 

[Wotan]

"I hear atheists speak of their moral supremacy and then I see posts like the ones blaming faith for atrocities and still nothing of any substance to retort my post. "

Perhaps 9/11 escaped your attention.

 

[Archer]

Killing in the name of "progress" is not killing in the name of "god."

There is nothing wrong with "rampant liberalism." Just why is that relevant to this discussion . . .?

". . . blanket accusations about believers being dangerous and following God being the root cause of most killing and such."

Here's another one who can't grasp a simple argument. It is NOT a blanket accusation. READ #169.

Geez some of these religious wackos are just INCAPABLE of getting any NEW idea into their heads. The belief in their mythology just won't allow it.

You are no better you and those like you spread lies and misinformation. You bend things to meet your agenda. You discount or distort the truth in an attempt to convince people that you have superior morals.

I point out that the vast majority of monstrous killings were done by godless people not those of faith.