To the Non Believers.

[Archer]

Atheism does not fit that definition at all. It is not a "set of beliefs" and there are no "practices". Atheism is a singular position on a singular subject - that is a non-belief in a God or Gods.


Again, atheism does not have a set of beliefs or practices.


See above. Atheism has no individual set of ethics tied to it, and there are no unified atheist causes.

I disagree but I guess it is all about how you see it. I see many Atheists with an agenda. They have groups and want God removed from everything. Sounds like religion to me.

BTW what is this?: http://www.meetup.com/

@Auto the numbers of 3 dictators add up to over 50,000,000 a lot more than that. Now take central and south america as well as SE Asia into consideration. I dont here them saying they did it for God. You do the math.

Christians don't just do these things. Don't get me wrong there have been many murders in the name of Man because he said God led him but get with it don't you think these people had a pretty good idea what they were doing was wrong?

By the way the definition of attack: transitive verb
1 : to set upon or work against forcefully
2 : to assail with unfriendly or bitter words
3 : to begin to affect or to act on injuriously <plants attacked by aphids>
4 : to set to work on <attack a problem>
5 : to threaten (a piece in chess) with immediate capture

These numbers could be off but it is something.

The second point to make is that, yes, people who claim to love God do kill, but nowhere
near to the extent that the lack of religion does. According to University of Hawaii
political scientist Rudolph J. Rummel,1 the total number killed in all of human history is
estimated to be about 284,638,000. Of that number, 151,491,000 were killed during the
past 100 years. The single largest killer in all of human history is, by far, atheistic
Communism with a total of 110,000,000 &#8230; over 1/3 of all people ever killed! If we add
to that number just two other regimes where religion of any sort was strongly
discouraged, Nazi Germany and Nationalist China, the number rises to 141,160,000.
Almost 50% of all the killings in human history were committed in the past 100 years by
regimes that either actively promoted atheism or strongly discouraged religion. We have
not considered the over one billion abortions, where Christianity seems to be particularly
unwelcome. When the murders of history are tallied up, it is very clear that atheism is the
most dangerous philosophy ever embraced by humanity. The most effective restraint on
mankind's inherently evil tendencies is faith in God through Jesus Christ, a faith that
actually follows the teachings and commands of Jesus Christ as a daily way of life.

This is where the numbers come from: http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/NOTE1.HTM

This is the link to the article: http://www.newscholars.com/papers/Killing, Christianity, and Atheism.pdf

 

[LuisDantas]

I disagree but I guess it is all about how you see it. I see many Atheists with an agenda. They have groups and want God removed from everything. Sounds like religion to me.

I'll grant that many atheists understand the need for religion better than the average god-believer does.

Otherwise, I can't help but scratch my head and wonder how you came to such a conclusion.

 

[Comicaze247]

 

[Magic Man]

I disagree but I guess it is all about how you see it. I see many Atheists with an agenda. They have groups and want God removed from everything. Sounds like religion to me.

Many atheists may have an agenda, but that is irrelevant to the fact that atheism is not a set of beliefs. I'm curious how many atheists you've ever heard say they actively want to remove God from everything. I'm guessing it's a combination of two things. You're misinterpretting the desire for secularism. Secularists (not just atheists) want to remove mentions of religion from anything run by the government because a separation of church and state is important in keeping the freedom of religion in the country.

Also, many atheists wouldn't mind seeing "God" removed from everything completely, but generally they aren't trying to accomplish that. For instance, I wouldn't mind seeing theism die out completely, but I'm not trying to get it banned. If others want to believe in theism, I don't really mind as long as they're not hurting anyone.

And finally, no, that doesn't sound like religion. There might be groups of atheists who act like religions. In fact, there are, considering many Buddhists are atheists and some other religious people, too. However, atheism is no more a religion than theism is. Christianity is a form of theism, and it is a religion, but theism itself is not a religion.

 

[Willamena]

I disagree but I guess it is all about how you see it. I see many Atheists with an agenda. They have groups and want God removed from everything. Sounds like religion to me.

What does "religion" mean to you?

 

[Archer]

Many atheists may have an agenda, but that is irrelevant to the fact that atheism is not a set of beliefs. I'm curious how many atheists you've ever heard say they actively want to remove God from everything. I'm guessing it's a combination of two things. You're misinterpretting the desire for secularism. Secularists (not just atheists) want to remove mentions of religion from anything run by the government because a separation of church and state is important in keeping the freedom of religion in the country.

Also, many atheists wouldn't mind seeing "God" removed from everything completely, but generally they aren't trying to accomplish that. For instance, I wouldn't mind seeing theism die out completely, but I'm not trying to get it banned. If others want to believe in theism, I don't really mind as long as they're not hurting anyone.

And finally, no, that doesn't sound like religion. There might be groups of atheists who act like religions. In fact, there are, considering many Buddhists are atheists and some other religious people, too. However, atheism is no more a religion than theism is. Christianity is a form of theism, and it is a religion, but theism itself is not a religion.

About the AHA What is this? There all different types but a religion it is by definition. You say you share no common beliefs but neither do Jew's, Christians or Muslims (I mean groups within each faith) so you argument is lacking.

@ Willamena It is a mindset and set of beliefs. It can be individual or group. I am looking at large groups that have a lack of belief in God as strong as those who believe. Look at some of the Atheist agenda only carried out by large groups having one main belief.

I am not saying that all of those that do not believe in a Higher power of any type hold this as a religion just as lumping the faithful into chunks is wrong. If the organized Atheist groups with an anti God agenda are not acting like an organized Religion than the word needs a new definition.

 

[Madhuri]

I see many Atheists with an agenda.

I think that everyone has an agenda.

 

[Duck]

About the AHA What is this? There all different types but a religion it is by definition. You say you share no common beliefs but neither do Jew's, Christians or Muslims (I mean groups within each faith) so you argument is lacking.

Wait, I am confused by the bolded statement. I am pretty sure that in order to fall under the umbrella of ''christian' one must hold a common set of beliefs...ie that Jesus existed, was the Messiah, died on the cross, was resurrected, and belief/worship of him is necessary to gain entry into heaven. Or for the umbrella of 'muslim' there is a common set of beliefs...ie that Allah is the one true god, one must submit to the will of Allah, and up hold the 5 pillars of Islam (charity, the hajj and others I can't remember).

So how are you drawing the conclusion that there are no common beliefs for christians or muslims? I leave jews out of this because I know even less of judaism than I do of the other two, even though I tend to lump judaism into the general category of 'abrahamic' and assume the worst.

 

[Wotan]

"If you really need me to I can do this all night but the fact is statements like these are calling everyone of faith a murder or an accomplice or because they don't turn their back on their faith."

No, that is not what I said. Do you have a problem with reading comprehension?

If you do not believe in a god you will not kill in its name.​

And from that you get I am "calling everyone of faith a murder(er)?" You simply have NOT read it thought about it or given ANY serious attention to it.

Believe in a god is a necessary but NOT sufficient cause for killing in his name. This is so obvious it need not be even spoken. Millions of believers -devout believers - wouldn't harm a fly.

But our poster here simply has not read deeply or thought deeply about what he has "read."

And I submit this is not unusual. In general the arguments advanced by theists are simplistic and intellectually shallow and often nothing but regurgitated dogma. But they are advanced in all seriousness as if there actually were serious, powerful, well reasoned and compelling. And this is often done in good faith. They sincerely BELIEVE they have made some profound argument by simply repeating what they have been taught.:sad:

This is one of the reasons I maintain that simply believing this stuff actually corrodes the ability to reason. And leads to the error here displayed.

The inability to grasp the distinction between a necessary cause and a sufficient one.

 

[DeitySlayer]

When Jesus facepalms, you know Archer or Danmac have just done something hugely embarassing to Christianity.

 

[Badran]

If you do not believe in a god you will not kill in its name.​

Let me give you a couple of examples, that this flawed logic or reasoning applies to:

If you do not believe in protecting your country "National security" you would not kill in it's name. (Some people do horrible acts, and they claim that they have done it for "National security").

If you do not believe in justice you would not kill in it's name. (Some people kill someone for being an American citizen, and claim that this is justice because America is at war with his country).

In case the examples aren't accurate, or obvious, let me explain. Just because some think that God wants them to kill others, that doesn't mean that believing in God is a bad thing.

It means that they are either wrong about that or lying or actually right.

But since Billions of others also believe in God, and don't claim that he wants them to kill for his name, we can't judge believing in God based on those bad examples.

 

[Magic Man]

About the AHA What is this?

What is what? That AHA? It's the American Humanist Association. I don't see "atheist" in there anywhere.

There all different types but a religion it is by definition.

Nope, sorry. Atheism is not a religion by definition. You could make the argument that humanism is, but not atheism.

You say you share no common beliefs but neither do Jew's, Christians or Muslims (I mean groups within each faith) so you argument is lacking.

Huh? Jews, Christians and Muslims do share common beliefs. The only commonality shared by all atheists is the lack of belief in a god.

 

[Wotan]

Let me give you a couple of examples, that this flawed logic or reasoning applies to:

If you do not believe in protecting your country "National security" you would not kill in it's name. (Some people do horrible acts, and they claim that they have done it for "National security").

If you do not believe in justice you would not kill in it's name. (Some people kill someone for being an American citizen, and claim that this is justice because America is at war with his country).

In case the examples aren't accurate, or obvious, let me explain. Just because some think that God wants them to kill others, that doesn't mean that believing in God is a bad thing.

It means that they are either wrong about that or lying or actually right.

But since Billions of others also believe in God, and don't claim that he wants them to kill for his name, we can't judge believing in God based on those bad examples.

See! This EXACTLY what I mean. Our devout believer has, quite innocently I think. complete MISSED the point. He has simply ASSUMED something that his mythology tells him and blindly applied it to the argument being made. He actually has NO idea what the point is. He is just shouting his dogma thinking he has actually said something meaningful.

Bad, ole boy DO pls READ (as in comprehend an argument) #169

 

[Badran]

See! This EXACTLY what I mean. Our devout believer has, quite innocently I think. complete MISSED the point. He has simply ASSUMED something that his mythology tells him and blindly applied it to the argument being made. He actually has NO idea what the point is. He is just shouting his dogma thinking he has actually said something meaningful.

Bad, ole boy DO pls READ (as in comprehend an argument) #169

What?

How am i shouting my dogma? Is these examples part of my dogma.

If i misunderstood your post explain it again, what were you trying to say in that post?

 

[Wotan]

What?

How am i shouting my dogma? Is these examples part of my dogma.

If i misunderstood your post explain it again, what were you trying to say in that post?

I wasn't TRYING to say anything. I said it.

Are you REALLY unable to grasp the distinction between necessary and sufficient? Apparently so.
Sad.
As I said, simply believing this stuff corrodes the ability to reason.

 

[Wotan]

#169 Bad

169

 

[Badran]

I wasn't TRYING to say anything. I said it.

Are you REALLY unable to grasp the distinction between necessary and sufficient? Apparently so.
Sad.

Well wasn't what you said, that if a person doesn't believe in God, he wouldn't kill in his name? If it wasn't, maybe you'd be so nice to say it again, so may be this time i can understand it.

As I said, simply believing this stuff corrodes the ability to reason.

Sure, may be you are right. That's a big claim though, so you either back it up with evidence, or an argument. Unless you just wanted to put it there and you don't really want to talk about it, is that the case?

 

[Wotan]

"If you do not believe in protecting your country "National security" you would not kill in it's name."

Yes, quite so.

And your point is?

 

[Badran]

"If you do not believe in protecting your country "National security" you would not kill in it's name."

Yes, quite so.

And your point is?

May be you should answer my previous post first, so we can clarify this Misunderstanding.

 

[Archer]

Wait, I am confused by the bolded statement. I am pretty sure that in order to fall under the umbrella of ''christian' one must hold a common set of beliefs...ie that Jesus existed, was the Messiah, died on the cross, was resurrected, and belief/worship of him is necessary to gain entry into heaven. Or for the umbrella of 'muslim' there is a common set of beliefs...ie that Allah is the one true god, one must submit to the will of Allah, and up hold the 5 pillars of Islam (charity, the hajj and others I can't remember).

So how are you drawing the conclusion that there are no common beliefs for christians or muslims? I leave jews out of this because I know even less of judaism than I do of the other two, even though I tend to lump judaism into the general category of 'abrahamic' and assume the worst.

Hell no the beliefs are varied and as different as night and day. How damn denominations of the protestant persuasion are there anyway? Hell there is a new denomination or split every week. We need not even get into the totality of Jew, Muslim and Christian. All most of us agree on is that there is a God. Just like the Atheists agree there is no God. You push your agenda and try to convince people of their ignorance. Hell you claim that is what people of faith. Atheism has a god and it is Man.