McBell
Unbound
I am hoping, though not holding my breath, that thief will actually get on topic.
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TotD: Was the serpent in Genesis Satan?
- Thread starter CDWolfe
- Start date
fallingblood
Agnostic Theist
It actually is a very interesting subject. In both Jewish and Christian thought, there have been ideas in which the serpent was Satan (or connected to Satan). In the Apocalypse of Moses (a Jewish text from probably the first century) has Satan in league with the serpent.
The Book of Wisdom (a Jewish work from probably the second century B.C.E. or so) may also connect Satan with the serpent.
This idea would influence later Jewish-Christian writers, and in Revelation, we see a direct connection of the serpent as being Satan.
In the original context though, no, the serpent was simply a serpent. But it is still quite interesting as there is a lot of mythology, from that time period, that speaks about serpents. And much of it isn't negative. It is worth reading up in. Or if you want, I can expand some as well.
Wayfaring Stranger
Member
It was updated in the closing pages by a disciple of John the Baptist.
Re:20:2:
And he laid hold on the dragon,
that old serpent,
which is the Devil,
and Satan,
and bound him a thousand years,
Thief
Rogue Theologian
I believe I did so.
The serpent IS Satan...the adversary.
And my other posting should be easy enough to understand.
Genesis is part of this topic....it is real....Man had a beginning.
The heaven and it's advesaries would focus upon this beginning.
What's so hard about that?
Wayfaring Stranger
Member
Satan is also Lucifer in IsaL14 and the verses there are about him being chained in the Pit while the men in hell (behind locked doors) mock him. The tower of Babel was his attempt to get back into heaven and the language thing is how he was able to 'weaken the Nations'. Jude is all about fallen angels before the flood so that might help define just who they are also in the the Beast from the Pit is a released fallen angel and those two are the north and south kings in Da:11 making then the iron part of the iron/clay kingdom.
"Updated" - so that's what they call it.
Wayfaring Stranger
Member
That isn't the bad part even, all those OT prophecies that mention Babylon have to be reviewed because a 2nd Babylon pops up in just the last few pages of the 2nd book that is by authority of John the Baptist, and OT Prophet in every true sense of the word. The trick in sorting them is God didn't destroy Neb but Satan is certainly fully destroyed. You did do the research on that aspect right? No of course you didn't, hardly anybody has that's why it's never mentioned.
What term do you use when making conclusions based on material where several books are missing? Was John an OT Prophet?
What term do you use when making conclusions based on material where several books are missing? Was John an OT Prophet?
:beach:
Wayfaring Stranger
Member
Is that the "I don't have a clue" emoticon? lol I'm sure with that POV you can stitch the few verses together with some meaningful scripture.
Jer:25:1:
The word that came to Jeremiah concerning all the people of Judah in the fourth year of Jehoiakim the son of Josiah king of Judah,
that was the first year of Nebuchadrezzar king of Babylon;
Jer:25:26:
And all the kings of the north,
far and near,
one with another,
and all the kingdoms of the world,
which are upon the face of the earth:
and the king of Sheshach shall drink after them.
Jer:25:32:
Thus saith the LORD of hosts,
Behold,
evil shall go forth from nation to nation,
and a great whirlwind shall be raised up from the coasts of the earth.
Jer:25:33:
And the slain of the LORD shall be at that day from one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth:
they shall not be
Jer:25:1:
The word that came to Jeremiah concerning all the people of Judah in the fourth year of Jehoiakim the son of Josiah king of Judah,
that was the first year of Nebuchadrezzar king of Babylon;
Jer:25:26:
And all the kings of the north,
far and near,
one with another,
and all the kingdoms of the world,
which are upon the face of the earth:
and the king of Sheshach shall drink after them.
Jer:25:32:
Thus saith the LORD of hosts,
Behold,
evil shall go forth from nation to nation,
and a great whirlwind shall be raised up from the coasts of the earth.
Jer:25:33:
And the slain of the LORD shall be at that day from one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth:
they shall not be
Desert Snake
Veteran Member
That's not in scripture. Didn't you read the thread? You're assuming that the snake was Satan, the relevant verses in Genesis don't back up your assertion at all.
Wayfaring Stranger
Member
The one from Revelation does though, hence the title of that book itself.
McBell
Unbound
What one from Revelation?
Pegg
Jehovah our God is One
the scriptures do present Satan as a real individual...he is described as one of the heavenly angels in the book of Job
Job 1:6 Now it came to be the day when the sons of the [true] God entered to take their station before Jehovah, and even Satan proceeded to enter right among them. 7 Then Jehovah said to Satan: Where do you come from? At that Satan answered Jehovah and said: From roving about in the earth and from walking about in it. 8 And Jehovah went on to say to Satan: Have you set your heart upon my servant Job, that there is no one like him in the earth....
the christian apostle John was the one who really made the identification between the Serpent of Eden and 'Satan' the devil in the book of Revelation
Revelation 12:7 And war broke out in heaven: Mi′cha·el and his angels battled with the dragon, and the dragon and its angels battled 8 but it did not prevail, neither was a place found for them any longer in heaven. 9 So down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth
Job 1:6 Now it came to be the day when the sons of the [true] God entered to take their station before Jehovah, and even Satan proceeded to enter right among them. 7 Then Jehovah said to Satan: Where do you come from? At that Satan answered Jehovah and said: From roving about in the earth and from walking about in it. 8 And Jehovah went on to say to Satan: Have you set your heart upon my servant Job, that there is no one like him in the earth....
the christian apostle John was the one who really made the identification between the Serpent of Eden and 'Satan' the devil in the book of Revelation
Revelation 12:7 And war broke out in heaven: Mi′cha·el and his angels battled with the dragon, and the dragon and its angels battled 8 but it did not prevail, neither was a place found for them any longer in heaven. 9 So down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth
fallingblood
Agnostic Theist
If you read the story of Babel, the Tower really doesn't feature in it much. It is mentioned briefly, and as a side note, and then it really vanishes. There is also no mention of Satan in this story.
It seems to me that you're mixing up way too many stories.
McBell
Unbound
Ah, so Peter is the serpent, right?
McBell
Unbound
Seems that way to me as well.
Desert Snake
Veteran Member
^+1. Agreed, far too much interpretation.
Wayfaring Stranger
Member
There is a common theme about being able to reach into heaven though.
How do you think was trying to get into space back then, how about the only being from there.
What is the time gap from the tower and this reference?
Job:1:6:
Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD,
and Satan came also among them.
Job:1:7:
And the LORD said unto Satan,
Whence comest thou?
Then Satan answered the LORD,
and said,
From going to and fro in the earth,
and from walking up and down in it.
Isa:14:12:
How art thou fallen from heaven,
O Lucifer,
son of the morning!
how art thou cut down to the ground,
which didst weaken the nations!
Isa:14:13:
For thou hast said in thine heart,
I will ascend into heaven,
I will exalt my throne above the stars of God:
I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation,
in the sides of the north:
Isa:14:14:
I will ascend above the heights of the clouds;
I will be like the most High.
Isa:14:15:
Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell,
to the sides of the pit.
Ge:11:4:
And they said,
Go to,
let us build us a city and a tower,
whose top may reach unto heaven;
and let us make us a name,
lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth.
Ge:1 puts the clouds as being the upper limit for heaven from Earth's POV 91st heaven), the moon is Re:12 is the lower limit of the realm of Angels and the universe is the wjole of the 2nd heaven. That leaves just the Place God and the Holy Spirit were before Ge:1:1 was manifested, the 3rd heaven.
2Co:12:2:
I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago,
(whether in the body,
I cannot tell;
or whether out of the body,
I cannot tell:
God knoweth
such an one caught up to the third heaven.
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Pegg
Jehovah our God is One
not sure i follow???
Wayfaring Stranger
Member
When you were reading Re:12 did you notice the first woman was Eve in that she was the one given pain in child-birth at the time the two bruises were determined in Ge:3:15? The next woman in chapter 12 is Mary, mother of Jesus and the time is the completion of the bruise to the heel and the last woman mentioned is the protected one fro Satan during the 3 1/2 years it takes for the 5th and 6th trumps to unfold.?
Those two events also come with 'It is finished." and "It is done."
One other verse also supports that.
Re:20:2:
And he laid hold on the dragon,
that old serpent,
which is the Devil,
and Satan,
and bound him a thousand years,
The Apostle John didn't write Revelation, it was the Beloved Disciple named John because she was a disciple of John, Mary of Bethany was one name given to her so that is her alone in this verse and she is His wife once He comes back.
Re:21:9:
And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues,
and talked with me,
saying,
Come hither,
I will shew thee the bride,
the Lamb's wife.
Re:21:10:
And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain,
and shewed me that great city,
the holy Jerusalem,
descending out of heaven from God,
Re:19:7:
Let us be glad and rejoice,
and give honour to him:
for the marriage of the Lamb is come,
and his wife hath made herself ready.
Re:19:8:
And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen,
clean and white:
for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
Re:19:9:
And he saith unto me,
Write,
Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb.
And he saith unto me,
These are the true sayings of God.
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