TotD: Was the serpent in Genesis Satan?

[McBell]

...
I only know of one group of christians who do not believe that Satan is a real person,...

Then you really need to get out more.

 

[Wayfaring Stranger]

I assume you also view the world as flat?
That horse hairs left in water will turn into worms?
that tomatoes are poisonous?
that meat will spontaneously generate into flies?

I mean, early Christians also believed these things...
Funny how you throw the word logic in your post as though merely using the word makes it so.

Are you expecting her of myself go out and correct that mistake before the question is worthy of your input?
Since neither one of us (or anybody) has promoted that why is it to be defended at all?
Not so funny how you address everything but what the post contains.
Is that part of the logic taught in your world?

 

[McBell]

Are you expecting her of myself go out and correct that mistake before the question is worthy of your input?
Since neither one of us (or anybody) has promoted that why is it to be defended at all?
Not so funny how you address everything but what the post contains.
Is that part of the logic taught in your world?

I do not expect anything but sermons out of you.
And based on your posting history, not even original sermons, mind you.
No, merely the parroting of things you heard from others.

 

[Desert Snake]

its written in the scritpures that the 'dragon' is the 'original serpent' who is 'misleading the entire inhabited earth'

I only know of one group of christians who do not believe that Satan is a real person, that is the christadelphians.

However, the snake in Genesis is not portrayed as a 'satan' like figure. That's the problem I have with transferring the Satan character to the snake. It simply doesn't fit the scripture.

 

[Wayfaring Stranger]

The serpent lied and by that lie innocent people died. The NT says the devil was the first sinner, Satan is like his middle name, but it is the same dude.

 

[Desert Snake]

The serpent lied and by that lie innocent people died. The NT says the devil was the first sinner, Satan is like his middle name, but it is the same dude.

Perhaps, but with lack of scripture backing up your claim, it's only speculation.

 

[Walkntune]

You say that Satan is the serpent and Jesus says that Peter is Satan, therefore Peter is the serpent.

Ha ha

 

[Wayfaring Stranger]

Perhaps, but with lack of scripture backing up your claim, it's only speculation.

True.
Joh:8:44:
Ye are of your father the devil,
and the lusts of your father ye will do.
He was a murderer from the beginning,
and abode not in the truth,
because there is no truth in him.
When he speaketh a lie,
he speaketh of his own:
for he is a liar,
and the father of it.

1Jo:3:8:
He that committeth sin is of the devil;
for the devil sinneth from the beginning.
For this purpose the Son of God was manifested,
that he might destroy the works of the devil.

 

[Wayfaring Stranger]

I do not expect anything but sermons out of you.
And based on your posting history, not even original sermons, mind you.
No, merely the parroting of things you heard from others.

True again, you are on a role, he is who I'm stealing things from, have you met Him, He even has His name in some book, do you? (sorry it is so long, I look at as being qyite short for somebody showing how they became a perfected being, a child at that.

Proverb:8:22-36:
The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way,
before his works of old.
I was set up from everlasting,
from the beginning,
or ever the earth was.
When there were no depths,
I was brought forth;
when there were no fountains abounding with water.
Before the mountains were settled,
before the hills was I brought forth:
While as yet he had not made the earth,
nor the fields,
nor the highest part of the dust of the world.
When he prepared the heavens,
I was there:
when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:
When he established the clouds above:
when he strengthened the fountains of the deep:
When he gave to the sea his decree,
that the waters should not pass his commandment:
when he appointed the foundations of the earth:
Then I was by him,
as one brought up with him:
and I was daily his delight,
rejoicing always before him;
Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth;
and my delights were with the sons of men.
Now therefore hearken unto me,
O ye children:
for blessed are they that keep my ways.
Hear instruction,
and be wise,
and refuse it not.
Blessed is the man that heareth me,
watching daily at my gates,
waiting at the posts of my doors.
For whoso findeth me findeth life,
and shall obtain favour of the LORD.
But he that sinneth against me wrongeth his own soul:
all they that hate me love death.

 

[Desert Snake]

True.
Joh:8:44:
Ye are of your father the devil,
and the lusts of your father ye will do.
He was a murderer from the beginning,
and abode not in the truth,
because there is no truth in him.
When he speaketh a lie,
he speaketh of his own:
for he is a liar,
and the father of it.

1Jo:3:8:
He that committeth sin is of the devil;
for the devil sinneth from the beginning.
For this purpose the Son of God was manifested,
that he might destroy the works of the devil.

The highlighted text does not infer that the snake in the Garden is being referred to, however, merely that the 'devil' was a liar from the beginning.

 

[Wayfaring Stranger]

Sorry, is the kind of sermon you were looking for while I keep quiet at the same time? Satan is the common theme in most of the verses.
Joh:1:1:
In the beginning was the Word,
and the Word was with God,
and the Word was God.

Ge:1:1:
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

Ge:1:3: And God said,
Let there be light:
and there was light.

Re:21:5:
And he that sat upon the throne said,
Behold,
I make all things new.
And he said unto me,
Write:
for these words are true and faithful.
Re:21:6:
And he said unto me,
It is done.
I am Alpha and Omega,
the beginning and the end.
I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
Re:21:7:
He that overcometh shall inherit all things;
and I will be his God,
and he shall be my son.

Heb:1:5:
For unto which of the angels said he at any time,
Thou art my Son,
this day have I begotten thee?
And again,
I will be to him a Father,
and he shall be to me a Son?

Isa:14:12:
How art thou fallen from heaven,
O Lucifer,
son of the morning!
how art thou cut down to the ground,
which didst weaken the nations!
Isa:14:13:
For thou hast said in thine heart,
I will ascend into heaven,
I will exalt my throne above the stars of God:
I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation,
in the sides of the north:
Isa:14:14:
I will ascend above the heights of the clouds;
I will be like the most High.
Isa:14:15:
Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell,
to the sides of the pit.

Re:20:2:
And he laid hold on the dragon,
that old serpent,
which is the Devil,
and Satan,
and bound him a thousand years,
Re:20:3:
And cast him into the bottomless pit,
and shut him up,
and set a seal upon him,
that he should deceive the nations no more,
till the thousand years should be fulfilled:
and after that he must be loosed a little season.

Re:12:13:
And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth,
he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.

Re:12:15:
And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman,
that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
Re:12:16:
And the earth helped the woman,
and the earth opened her mouth,
and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
Re:12:17:
And the dragon was wroth with the woman,
and went to make war with the remnant of her seed,
which keep the commandments of God,
and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Re:11:3:
And I will give power unto my two witnesses,
and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days,
clothed in sackcloth.
Re:11:4:
These are the two olive trees,
and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
Re:11:5:
And if any man will hurt them,
fire proceedeth out of their mouth,
and devoureth their enemies:
and if any man will hurt them,
he must in this manner be killed.
Re:11:6:
These have power to shut heaven,
that it rain not in the days of their prophecy:
and have power over waters to turn them to blood,
and to smite the earth with all plagues,
as often as they will.

Zec:4:10:
For who hath despised the day of small things?
for they shall rejoice,
and shall see the plummet in the hand of Zerubbabel with those seven;
they are the eyes of the LORD,
which run to and fro through the whole earth.
Zec:4:11:
Then answered I,
and said unto him,
What are these two olive trees upon the right side of the candlestick and upon the left side thereof?
Zec:4:12:
And I answered again,
and said unto him,
What be these two olive branches which through the two golden pipes empty the golden oil out of themselves?
Zec:4:13:
And he answered me and said,
Knowest thou not what these be?
And I said,
No,
my lord.
Zec:4:14:
Then said he,
These are the two anointed ones,
that stand by the LORD of the whole earth.

Re:16:13:
And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon,
and out of the mouth of the beast,
and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
Re:16:14:
For they are the spirits of devils,
working miracles,
which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world,
to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

 

[Heathen Hammer]

The serpent lied and by that lie innocent people died. The NT says the devil was the first sinner, Satan is like his middle name, but it is the same dude.

Funny however that in the Old Testament, rather than in uninformed commentaries much later... everything the serpent said in the garden was totally true.

And God was the one fibbing.

 

[Pegg]

Funny however that in the Old Testament, rather than in uninformed commentaries much later... everything the serpent said in the garden was totally true.

And God was the one fibbing.

what was true about it?

Is mankind in a better position now then what they had back then?

 

[Wayfaring Stranger]

"everything the serpent said in the garden was totally true." How is that?"
Adam and Eve died before they were 1,000 years old, this is what God can use as being one day with him.

It would seem that the ones in Jude and Ge:3 are the ones doing the teaching back then, pretty through if we still mimic it today.

 

[McBell]

what was true about it?

Seems you are skipping ahead:

it told Eve she could become like God... she likely thought he meant she could better herself if she became more like God. But what he actually meant was that Eve could make her own decisions the way God makes his own decisions.

So he did not lie.
Eve made assumptions.

You maintain that the serpent lied, but you have not supported your claim.

Is mankind in a better position now then what they had back then?

Depends upon ones PoV.

 

[Pegg]

Seems you are skipping ahead:You maintain that the serpent lied, but you have not supported your claim.


Depends upon ones PoV.

the serpent said she 'positively will not die'

that was a lie, she died spiritually and physically in the same day.

 

[McBell]

the serpent said she 'positively will not die'

that was a lie, she died spiritually and physically in the same day.

Thank you.

 

[Heathen Hammer]

"everything the serpent said in the garden was totally true." How is that?"
Adam and Eve died before they were 1,000 years old, this is what God can use as being one day with him.

What do you mean, how is that?
He accurately described the wisdom they'd gain, that God didn't want them to have it, and that they wouldn't die as God described, which if you actually read it, lists like the apples was poison to touch or eat; and that implies, with none of this semantic nonsense, immediate death. Read the actual words in Hebrew.

And dieing a thousand years later... um, that's nothing. It's like a non-threat. If I threatened you with death, but said it was to be put off for a thousand years.. would you even bat an eye? Since they never ate from the Tree of Life they were not immortal to begin with.

What semantic *quackery comes in terms of God seeing Time differently, means nothing to mortals. His view of it is irrelevant. The serpent spoke the truth.

Is mankind in a better position now then what they had back then?

Also irrelevant. They had God lying to their faces back then... yes, we're better now.

the serpent said she 'positively will not die'
that was a lie, she died spiritually and physically in the same day.

'Spiritual death' is an afterthought, made up by apologists to cover the fact that they didn't die, and that God lied. Spiritual death is never discussed by anyone in the tale, where it counts.

 

[Pegg]

they didnt die?

ok, if you say so.

 

[Heathen Hammer]

They didn't die for a thousand years.


A THOUSAND YEARS

"In the day you eat of it"


Truth?

OK, if you say so