towards understanding the concept of just of the non Abrahamicreligions

[islam abduallah]

i wonder what trouble you have in saying it

and what's the problem to guess it

anyway it's Islam

 

[islam abduallah]

Most people change when they go through hardships. We learn from hardship. The most vile person can become the best kind of person with enough learning. One life is so short, so few experiences. Many people do not even live a full life. Some people have a life full of money and enjoyment and are never given a reason to become better.
One life is not a fair system.

so is what you are living now, is your first life? do you know a person who is living now his second life

 

[nameless]

and what's the problem to guess the 'right complete religion'?

anyway it's Islam

you are a true muslim, keep it up !!

 

[islam abduallah]

you are a true muslim, keep it up !!

thank you

 

[Madhuri]

so is what you are living now, is your first life? do you know a person who is living now his second life

None of us are living our first lives.

 

[islam abduallah]

None of us are living our first lives.

but i couldn't remember my former lives

 

[Madhuri]

but i couldn't remember my former lives

Of course not. Your brain holds memory and you did not have the same brain in another life.
In my religion, the belief is that the soul matures with every living experience. Therefore, even if you do not carry memories (which is good, because many life experiences cause trauma and emotional problems) you still become a wiser and better individual, closer to God.

The fact that you have devotion for God and seek truth is an indication that you have had many lives before now. It means that you have experienced much joy and suffering in other life times to bring you to a point of maturity and growth that causes you to want God.

 

[Bismillah]

Therefore, even if you do not carry memories (which is good, because many life experiences cause trauma and emotional problems) you still become a wiser and better individual, closer to God.

How do you become wiser if you have no memories of past events? How does nonaction lead to closeness with God?

 

[Madhuri]

How do you become wiser if you have no memories of past events? How does nonaction lead to closeness with God?

What do you mean by non-action? Our existence is a series of actions.

To address the first question, beneath the physical body is the astral body, which is connected to the spiritual 'body' or spirit-soul. The mind influences the consciousness that is the soul. That and the astral body are what exists beyond the physical. What you do and think right now affects and leaves impressions (samskara) on the consciousness.

Life is about learning and growth. Each life is an 'evolution' of consciousness. Your state of consciousness when you die carries to the next life. Have you noticed that some people seem to be born very wise and others are very ignorant and constantly make stupid decision in life? And some people are more inclined to spirituality while others are more inclined to frivolity? This is because of their stage of growth/maturity on the level of consciousness.

We do not need our memories to grow. It is a natural progression. Eventually, in some life time, the individual reaches the ultimate state of realisation/knowledge/enlightenment in which they realise the truth nature of the Self and of God. This is when complete communion with God is achieved, and when we become liberated from material existence.

That is the point of life and of this world, according to my beliefs. To learn. To grow. To discover God in this natural process.

 

[Bismillah]

What do you mean by non-action? Our existence is a series of actions.

I mean presuming that we are closer to God through presupposed actions in a presumed past is a non action is it not? The only way to become closer to God is through action action. That is why Iman or faith is in a constant state of fluctuation in accordance to our actions, urges, and apathy.

The mind influences the consciousness that is the soul. That and the astral body are what exists beyond the physical. What you do and think right now affects and leaves impressions (samskara) on the consciousness.

But you said earlier that the mind is only physical

Of course not. Your brain holds memory and you did not have the same brain in another life.

Have you noticed that some people seem to be born very wise and others are very ignorant and constantly make stupid decision in life? And some people are more inclined to spirituality while others are more inclined to frivolity? This is because of their stage of growth/maturity on the level of consciousness.

Not really, I have seen people influenced by their environment and what they teach themselves however. That is, I don't think anyone is born wise, we are born ignorant of almost everything. We earn our wisdom through our own actions. The idea that that I was born with is something alien to me, as I was not interested in religion at all and came about face in a short period of time after I spent time and energy researching spirituality and religion.

That is the point of life and of this world, according to my beliefs. To learn. To grow. To discover God in this natural process.

Sure I can agree with that, I do in fact. But what I get hung up with is the point of past-lives they seem to have little to no impact. It seems that we are all born ignorant and strive to make ourselves wiser.

 

[islam abduallah]

How do you become wiser if you have no memories of past events? How does nonaction lead to closeness with God?

good point

 

[islam abduallah]

Of course not. Your brain holds memory and you did not have the same brain in another life.
In my religion, the belief is that the soul matures with every living experience. Therefore, even if you do not carry memories (which is good, because many life experiences cause trauma and emotional problems) you still become a wiser and better individual, closer to God.

The fact that you have devotion for God and seek truth is an indication that you have had many lives before now. It means that you have experienced much joy and suffering in other life times to bring you to a point of maturity and growth that causes you to want God.

another question comes to my mind, if we really die and then reborn again, and no body of us is living his first life, that means that the world population should be fixed but that not real, we are increasing, and that means there's a new born

 

[Madhuri]

I mean presuming that we are closer to God through presupposed actions in a presumed past is a non action is it not?

I don't understand. What do you mean?

But you said earlier that the mind is only physical

Yes it is but our physical body is connected to the astral and spiritual Self (think of it as layers. The physical body is a shallow layer, the astral body is beneath the surface and the spiritual body, which is the real Self is within that). It has real-time affects on our Spirit-soul. It is the spirit-soul that goes from one body to another (saying life is not really accurate because the soul IS life), it is the Self that matures.

By the way, mind is physical but consciousness is not. Consciousness is part of your eternal Self. So by gaining wisdom in this life, you are expanding your consciousness, which stays with you forever.

Not really, I have seen people influenced by their environment and what they teach themselves however. That is, I don't think anyone is born wise, we are born ignorant of almost everything. We earn our wisdom through our own actions. The idea that that I was born with is something alien to me, as I was not interested in religion at all and came about face in a short period of time after I spent time and energy researching spirituality and religion.

You are your experiences, correct. But you do not begin every life as a blank slate. You can have many siblings with the same up-bringing and similar life experiences in childhood but be very, very different people. One child might be attracted to music, one child will always be pursuing knowledge, one child will only want to play, one child may be a trouble maker or have problems understanding right and wrong.

This natural variation is explained by the concept of reincarnation. The same as when you find people who are born with incredible talents that supersede others. This is considered to be carried from previous life times. Other religious groups tend to explain this phenomenon as God giving the individual a gift/talent. But I don't understand why some people would be favoured that way above others.

Sure I can agree with that, I do in fact. But what I get hung up with is the point of past-lives they seem to have little to no impact. It seems that we are all born ignorant and strive to make ourselves wiser.

That is only because you believe there are no past lives. If you did believe them, like me, then you would assume that who you are now is a result of all your past lives and your current one. You mentioned that you became religious due to a search for knowledge. What made you decide to do the search? Many people have no desire to search for knowledge. Sometimes we have to have many experiences to bring us to a point where we begin to want knowledge. In fact, the unwise seem to place little or no value on wisdom.

Just to add before I post this, if it is true that the soul/Self begins its journey of life in a state of complete ignorance, then having many lives does have a huge impact. Some people are very ignorant all their lives and others are incredibly wise from a young age. The difference lies in the extent of experiences, the level of maturity, the stage of spiritual growth. Have you never met a child that is very wise? And an old person who is very ignorant? How do you explain that?

 

[Madhuri]

another question comes to my mind, if we really die and then reborn again, and no body of us is living his first life, that means that the world population should be fixed but that not real, we are increasing, and that means there's a new born

I believe that there are infinite amount of souls and infinite universes. Also, the soul does not go straight from one body to another. So the number of entities in one world at any given time would never be fixed.

 

[islam abduallah]

I believe that there are infinite amount of souls and infinite universes. Also, the soul does not go straight from one body to another. So the number of entities in one world at any given time would never be fixed.

let's make it more clear, each soul is in a body right? or not?

 

[Madhuri]

let's make it more clear, each soul is in a body right? or not?

Hmmm, more specifically, any living thing has a soul (the soul is life itself).

 

[atanu]

-------- he knows well that they are in a big lie, they are trying to deceive him .......
think deeply about those verses

Why did god create deceivers in the first place? Perfection and justice is sacrificed right at the beginning.

 

[atanu]

----- he knows well that they are in a big lie, they are trying to deceive him

I will like to see this from Koran -- that Allah says that He knows that 'they are trying to deceive Him and thus punishes them'.

I feel that these are ideas in your own mind.

 

[Riverwolf]

i agree with you that there's no just in that world, so that we need another life, the only judge, king there is the god who could judge fairly among us

So, while we're here, we're screwed, but once we get there, we're fine?

maybe your point of view is wrong

And maybe it's right. There's an equal chance for both. But if God is a King, He really sucks at it, therefore I can't call Him perfect.

 

[Riverwolf]

no, that's not favoritism, Muslims believe that Allah had offered this test to all the creatures, but all of hem refuse to be tested except mankind, they accept so that we have the mind to made a civilization and to be the god's successive authority in the earth
so what you could see a favoritism between mankind and other creatures is a result of that offer

read that verse "Indeed, we offered the Trust to the heavens and the earth and the mountains, and they declined to bear it and feared it; but man [undertook to] bear it. Indeed, he was unjust and ignorant" 33:72

Okay. Prove to me that this test even occurred.