"Trans" is clearly a hot topic. But what is it?

[Shadow Wolf]

What is an endocrine system

Did you not have biology in high school?

 

[icehorse]

They assign sex, not gender. Newborns don’t identify themselves. They poop.


And btw, that is not what strawman means.

Agreed on what they assign.

But AFAIK, there is a big difference between a "strawman argument" (which - sadly - we see a lot of on RF) and a "strawman proposal", which is a brain-storming technique.

 

[Kfox]

I am not.

You serious? Okay; my bad. Your response assumes the existence of a God I personally don’t subscribe to, but obviously you do so I will attempt to respond in the context of what you believe; perhaps we might understand each other a little better that way.
Though the Bible does claim God created both man and woman, it doesn’t claim the woman to be simple minded compared to a man.
As far as the men, it sounds like you’re talking about 2 separate groups of men here. One group that become sad when the woman is too frigid, but this group of men would loooove to be with the nympho’ then there is a second group that would run away from the nympho’ but would love to be with the woman ho is frigid and sexually unavailable. However, what does any of this have to do with the topic at hand?

 

[Callisto]

To me, it's a transsexual who transitions to the opposite sex to which they were born and strives to blend in as that. At the very least, gender/sex dysphoria is a basic trait. I don't like the term "transgender" as it's become pretty meaningless at this point, with a bunch of different groups thrown in together who have different goals and needs.

I agree with this. The term transsexual is being reclaimed by mostly older transgender persons (i.e., people who transitioned ages ago) and increasingly by some among more recent trans persons because "transgender" (both term and community) have become less about the actuality of gender dysphoria and more about pushing ideology and identity. The trans community is overrun by radical activists with no regard for the fact that they're damaging the very community they claim to champion. And when they're done, most of them will walk away because it's all about "identity" which for them is mutable and flexible. When the damage has been done and they're no longer getting attention, they'll just stop being non-binary, gender fluid, and whatever else they've put under the "trans umbrella". Meanwhile, the people who genuinely are dysphoric and detransitioners who were gaslighted will be left to live with the fallout of their shenanigans caused, from difficulty in getting proper/continued health care to dealing with trauma and mutilated bodies. It's disgusting.

 

[Callisto]

Gender is something very stereotypical, that changes across cultures.
I mean, if a woman likes to wear a male suit with a shirt and necktie, does this mean she's not a woman any more?

Gender is more about the cultural roles a society associates with the respective sexes which is different from clothing. Fashion changes not only across different cultures but within the same culture without impacting the cultural roles the sexes have associated with them.

 

[Kfox]

Did you not have biology in high school?

What difference does it make?

 

[Kfox]

Gender is more about the cultural roles a society associates with the respective sexes which is different from clothing. Fashion changes not only across different cultures but within the same culture without impacting the cultural roles the sexes have associated with them.

But cultural roles change as well; even within cultures. So how is this different?

 

[Callisto]

But cultural roles change as well; even within cultures. So how is this different?

Cultural roles stay predominately the same. E.g., women used to not be able to have their own bank accounts or were limited in the type of jobs they were considered for while still expected to fulfill traditional family roles of wife and/or mother. Now women have their own line of credit and are found in many occupations that were (and sometimes, still are) male dominated... and continue to be wives and mothers. Even in lesbian relationships, both women are wives and moms even if one partner takes on tasks often handled by husbands in a het relationship.

 

[Callisto]

Agreed on what they assign.

But AFAIK, there is a big difference between a "strawman argument" (which - sadly - we see a lot of on RF) and a "strawman proposal", which is a brain-storming technique.

And tbh, people are not assigned anything at birth. Their sex was determined early on during gestation, by the time they're born the doctor is simply observing what was already determined in natural development in the months prior. Gender dysphoria, if it occurs, manifests later on.

 

[We Never Know]

And tbh, people are not assigned anything at birth. Their sex was determined early on during gestation, by the time they're born the doctor is simply observing what was already determined in natural development in the months prior. Gender dysphoria, if it occurs, manifests later on.

Yep. Many have gender reveal party's after their ultrasound

 

[Shadow Wolf]

What difference does it make?

You wouldn't have asked whats am endocrine system if you did and paid attention.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Are you interested in watching TV newscasters?

I like Naked News much better.

 

[Kfox]

Cultural roles stay predominately the same. E.g., women used to not be able to have their own bank accounts or were limited in the type of jobs they were considered for while still expected to fulfill traditional family roles of wife and/or mother. Now women have their own line of credit and are found in many occupations that were (and sometimes, still are) male dominated... and continue to be wives and mothers. Even in lesbian relationships, both women are wives and moms even if one partner takes on tasks often handled by husbands in a het relationship.

Okay; you say cultural roles stay predominately the same; then you list a bunch examples where women regularly do things today that traditionally were only done by men; which to me signifies a huge change in culture. It seems your first point is contradicted by your second point.

 

[Kfox]

You wouldn't have asked whats am endocrine system if you did and paid attention.

So you assume I asked the question because I don't know the answer? Especially when all I gotta do is google endocrine system, and the answer just pops right up!

 

[Callisto]

Okay; you say cultural roles stay predominately the same; then you list a bunch examples where women regularly do things today that traditionally were only done by men; which to me signifies a huge change in culture. It seems your first point is contradicted by your second point.

Those changes didn't reassign gender roles nor change the meaning of someone being a man or a woman. Society didn't become something other than it had been: e.g., banks continued to handle money the same way as when only men handled finances, nothing was disrupted because women gained more agency. Companies continued their businesses, they just had a larger pool of potential employees to pull from with more women entering the workforce. Women continue to be daughters, wives, and mothers, which still maintain the connotations associated with those roles, despite it being socially acceptable for them to do things that were not for previous generations of women.

 

[Kfox]

Those changes didn't reassign gender roles

They didn’t reassign gender roles, but they did change them. Things that were initially a man’s role is no longer strictly a man’s role; and visa versa.

nor change the meaning of someone being a man or a woman.

Gender roles do not determine whether you are a man or a woman

Society didn't become something other than it had been: e.g., banks continued to handle money the same way as when only men handled finances,

That’s because those things aren’t based on Gender roles, they’re based on capitalism.

nothing was disrupted because women gained more agency.

Actually traditional gender roles were disrupted.

Companies continued their businesses, they just had a larger pool of potential employees to pull from with more women entering the workforce. Women continue to be daughters, wives, and mothers, which still maintain the connotations associated with those roles, despite it being socially acceptable for them to do things that were not for previous generations of women.

How are you defining "gender roles"?

 

[Callisto]

They didn’t reassign gender roles, but they did change them. Things that were initially a man’s role is no longer strictly a man’s role; and visa versa.

The changes amounted to expanding rights which didn't disrupt or redefine the primary roles associated with gender.

Gender roles do not determine whether you are a man or a woman

I didn't say they did, biological sex does; roles are closely intertwined with one's biological sex based on the culture's expectations per one's sex.

That’s because those things aren’t based on Gender roles, they’re based on capitalism.

If they were based on capitalism then changes, like women gaining greater autonomy, would have existed from the jump (women gaining agency = more people with their own purchasing power).

Actually traditional gender roles were disrupted.

Not really. E.g., Women continued to be the primary caregivers for families despite entering the work force. Industries were not disrupted by their addition. Occupations once solely male did not flip to solely or even. mostly female: e.g., 35% of doctors, 14% of construction workers are women and similar numbers are found in other sectors.

How are you defining "gender roles"?

Basically, those things considered typical, expected, and/or appropriate by a society for each gender. What definition are you using?

 

[Kfox]

The changes amounted to expanding rights which didn't disrupt or redefine the primary roles associated with gender.

Today we have women on the front line of the military, women are police officers, Pastors, and Doctors. We have men who are Nurses, Flight attendants, and secretaries; something unheard of just a few generations ago. You tellin’ me that is not a disruption of primary roles associated with gender?

If they were based on capitalism then changes, like women gaining greater autonomy, would have existed from the jump (women gaining agency = more people with their own purchasing power).

I don’t think so; They saw the idea of keeping women subordinate as more important than whatever extra profits they may have generated by women gaining agency

Not really. E.g., Women continued to be the primary caregivers for families despite entering the work force. Industries were not disrupted by their addition. Occupations once solely male did not flip to solely or even. mostly female: e.g., 35% of doctors, 14% of construction workers are women and similar numbers are found in other sectors.

But this is due to the different choices men make in life compared to women. This is not about gender roles, this is about gender choices.

Basically, those things considered typical, expected, and/or appropriate by a society for each gender.

So when you look at women in college, military, construction site, doctors, lawyers etc. you don’t see this as a change in what is considered typical, expected or appropriate compared to years ago?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

So you assume I asked the question because I don't know the answer? Especially when all I gotta do is google endocrine system, and the answer just pops right up!

People typically don't ask if they know, especially for something so basic.

 

[Callisto]

Today we have women on the front line of the military, women are police officers, Pastors, and Doctors. We have men who are Nurses, Flight attendants, and secretaries; something unheard of just a few generations ago. You tellin’ me that is not a disruption of primary roles associated with gender?

No, it's not a disruption. These fields are still predominately male (or female, respectively) and didn't alter societal expectations of either gender. When we see a complete reversal of gender roles in something, then we can talk about disruption.

I don’t think so; They saw the idea of keeping women subordinate as more important than whatever extra profits they may have generated by women gaining agency

Obviously that's not the case as we're both referencing the expansion of women's options so women are nowhere near subordinate as they were in bygone eras.

But this is due to the different choices men make in life compared to women. This is not about gender roles, this is about gender choices.

No, both are equally free to move into industries of their choice with little to none of the stigma that may have existed previously. In fact, it's "easier" for men to pursue jobs more often associated with women since they perceive there to be less pressure to succeed or extend years of schooling. Instead of being a doctor or surgeon, there's no issue with opting to be a nurse, radiologists etc. These jobs can even be as a step up for blue-collar men who've lost factory work. Men are not somehow reticent to move into different fields.

If anything, many fields associated with one gender are due to differences between the sexes which can make it tougher for women to succeed. E.g., fewer women than men can make the cut for the military. So while there are women willing and up to the challenge, there are many who can't handle the physical demands. So we do have an increase, more women than ever before, but all military branches are still 80% male (the Marines are 90% male).

So when you look at women in college, military, construction site, doctors, lawyers etc. you don’t see this as a change in what is considered typical, expected or appropriate compared to years ago?

No. And that's something that can be attributed to capitalism. Arguably more impactful than the feminist movement, the growing gap between wages and cost of living made it necessary decades ago for women to enter the workforce in order to keep their families afloat. Very rarely can an average family live off one salary (much less comfortably). Yet overall, both genders have kept their general societal associations.