Trayvon Martin shooting - murder or justified?

[Trey of Diamonds]

Handing over the use of violent force to police is the hallmark of any civilized society.
Only barbarian societies allow their citizens to take the law into their own hands.

Once I read in a book something very interesting: The societies of Europe are pacified by police (German original: polizeilich pazifiziert).
I find it very interesting that the USA still is on the level of barbarian nations.

You are welcome to your opinion but I don't share it.

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

Odd news observation:
I saw Zimmerman described as a "white Hispanic". I'd never seen this pair of words in the news before. I infer that it's important to distance
him from Hispanics, who often don't consider themselves "white", but now need this category in order to avoid being tainted.

What they mean is he is Hispanic but appears to be white. They are attempting to distance him from white supremacy groups. I would assume the term "white Hispanic" is just as insulting as the term "High Yeller" is to African-Americans of mixed heritage that can pass for white.

 

[Revoltingest]

What they mean is he is Hispanic but appears to be white. They are attempting to distance him from white supremacy groups.

An interesting take. I hadn't thought that media would want to sanitize white supremacists.
Perhaps we need a new racial category box to check...."Perpetrator".

 

[Revoltingest]

Handing over the use of violent force to police is the hallmark of any civilized society.
Only barbarian societies allow their citizens to take the law into their own hands.

Call me "Revoltingest The Barbarian" then.....or "RTB" for short.
I favor a powerful citizenry relative to government.

Once I read in a book something very interesting: The societies of Europe are pacified by police (German original: polizeilich pazifiziert).
I find it very interesting that the USA still is on the level of barbarian nations.

There is much irony in how the German government repeatedly pacified the people of Europe.
Had those who were pacified taken more initiative to defend themselves, they might've fared better.
OK, I'm done being smart alcecky....for the moment.

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

An interesting take. I hadn't thought that media would want to sanitize white supremacists.
Perhaps we need a new racial category box to check...."Perpetrator".

You have it backwards, they want to sanitize Zimmerman. They are trying to show him as not a racists because he is half Hispanic. How can someone of mixed race possibly be racist. To be honest though, it wasn't the media that started it, it was those who are supporting Zimmerman. The media is just sensationalizing as it goes along.

 

[Revoltingest]

You have it backwards, they want to sanitize Zimmerman. They are trying to show him as not a racists because he is half Hispanic. How can someone of mixed race possibly be racist. To be honest though, it wasn't the media that started it, it was those who are supporting Zimmerman. The media is just sensationalizing as it goes along.

It's confusing.

 

[SageTree]

Gun Law Fail

/thread.

 

[Apex]

Handing over the use of violent force to police is the hallmark of any civilized society.
Only barbarian societies allow their citizens to take the law into their own hands.

Did you miss the part where almost all signs are pointing towards what this guy did as wrong and illegal? If he does get off, it is more than likely going to be due to police incompetence.

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

Trayvon Martin Shooter Told Cops Teenager Went For His Gun

George Zimmerman, the neighborhood watch crime captain who shot dead 17-year-old Trayvon Martin, originally told police in a written statement that Martin knocked him down with a punch to the nose, repeatedly slammed his head on the ground and tried to take his gun, a police source told ABC News.

Zimmerman had claimed he had called police about Martin, whom he found suspicious, then went back to his car when Martin attacked him, punching him.

 

[SageTree]

But they found no gun right?

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

But they found no gun right?

Nope. There was evidence of a struggle in which Zimmerman was injured though. This aspect gave him more credibility though the police are still idiots for taking his story at face value.

 

[SageTree]

Yea really, what came first.... the gun or the attack...

Oh wait... yea... the dude followed him around, got out of his truck despite warnings and then wielded a gun.....

It was probably the black kid anyway.... isn't being black enough of a crime in the first place?

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

Yea really, what came first.... the gun or the attack...

Oh wait... yea... the dude followed him around, got out of his truck despite warnings and then wielded a gun.....

It was probably the black kid anyway.... isn't being black enough of a crime in the first place?

Unfortunately it is to some. Luckily there are so many who will speak out so that the Zimmermans will no longer get a free reign.

 

[SageTree]

Heh.... next up.... NRAdicals

 

[atropine]

Nope. There was evidence of a struggle in which Zimmerman was injured though. This aspect gave him more credibility though the police are still idiots for taking his story at face value.

Well, if someone was trying to murder me and I punched him in the face... yes, he'd be injured, but that doesn't mean he hadn't been trying to murder me. Zimmerman might have been injured, but that doesn't make him any more credible if it was a defensive wound.

 

[work in progress]

I really wish people in the media would stop talking about gun law in regards to this case.

Why? Gun laws may only intersect with this issue, which is mostly about race and how the Law is applied differently when a suspect is white or a minority, but the story I posted previously about how the NRA is behind the ALEC model legislation that created these "stand your ground" laws makes guns, gun manufacturers, and gun advocates very relevant to the discussion!

 

[work in progress]

We're involved in all sorts of legislative activity.
That's a major function of the NRA, & one of the reasons I joined.
i take it that you're not a member?

No, I am not; and I've expressed previously that if I lived out in the country rather than in a city, I would at least have a rifle or a shotgun handy. But, since I live in a city....a declining, decaying...former industrial city that is trying to hold itself together and develop new industry rather than keep on the trend of becoming another place where people may live, but have to commute to go to work...I would rather have effective policing, and a ban on handguns without special permits.

 

[Revoltingest]

Effective policing? Not really an option.
It's OK that Canuckistanians want more restrictions placed upon themselves, but I prefer our way.
But tragedies such as this also occur when cops over-react.
It seems that both cops & neighborhood watch types should get more/better training & vetting to help them do their job better.

 

[work in progress]

Effective policing?
Not really an option.

This is the self-fulfilling prophecy created by rightwing politics and politicians: starve the beast until governments are no longer capable of carrying out the public services that they are responsible for, and those services are either privatized to some corporation, or they are just left up to the individual. And this would be a good example, as crime, fear of crime, and ineffective policing serve as the excuse to just let everyone go out and buy their own guns and carry them around like in some novel on the Old West. Or, in this case, it's a few neighbours turning neighbourhood watch into neighbourhood vigilante justice!

 

[Revoltingest]

This is the self-fulfilling prophecy created by rightwing politics and politicians....

We may speculate about the reasons that things are the way they are, but practically speaking, we gotta deal with the reality we have.
And cops are generally not there to protect us from crime. They deal with the after-effects, which is only indirect protection.

Achievable changes in gun laws wouldn't likely address this death. Since neighborhood watch duty is a more pro-active role than
self-defense, we ought to address who does it & provide them with training. This looks like an entirely preventable tragedy.