Trayvon Martin shooting - murder or justified?

[Trey of Diamonds]

Well, if someone was trying to murder me and I punched him in the face... yes, he'd be injured, but that doesn't mean he hadn't been trying to murder me. Zimmerman might have been injured, but that doesn't make him any more credible if it was a defensive wound.

Agreed.

 

[Revoltingest]

It gets weirder.....

Mom makes a buck....
Mother Seeks Trayvon Martin Trademarks | The Smoking Gun

Anti-white folk T-shirts on sale now.....
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/buster/trayvon-martin/cracker-tshirt-759832

CL Bryant is upset with antics of Jesse & Al....
http://dailycaller.com/2012/03/26/f...ton-and-jackson-of-exploiting-trayvon-martin/

Martin might not be the angel portrayed in the media.....
http://articles.orlandosentinel.com..._1_miami-schools-punch-unarmed-black-teenager

I don't think Zimmerman should be exculpated for his actions, but the rush to judgement looks unwarranted.

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

I don't think Zimmerman should be exculpated for his actions, but the rush to judgement looks unwarranted.

And all too common these days.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

It's murder.

 

[work in progress]

We may speculate about the reasons that things are the way they are, but practically speaking, we gotta deal with the reality we have.

And part of dealing with that reality would be a reverse of the present course towards more selfishness and individualism at the expense of maintaining a well-functioning society.

And cops are generally not there to protect us from crime. They deal with the after-effects, which is only indirect protection.

Like dealing with every idiot shooting off their guns because they saw something that looked suspicious!

Achievable changes in gun laws wouldn't likely address this death. Since neighborhood watch duty is a more pro-active role than
self-defense, we ought to address who does it & provide them with training. This looks like an entirely preventable tragedy.

Everybody isn't cut out to be a cop, that's why people shouldn't be running around with handguns. That psychology study I referenced previously shows that most people start thinking everyone else is carrying a gun if they have one in their hands....a dangerous presumption to say the least! In 1880, they figured out that people shouldn't be carrying their guns into town in Tombstone Arizona, how long will it take to relearn that lesson?

 

[work in progress]

It gets weirder.....

The only thing weird is that Foxnews and rightwing bloggers wasted no time in trying to smear the reputation of the deceased: What You Need To Know About The Smear Campaign Against Trayvon Martin (1995-2012)
Thus far these attacks have fallen into two categories: false and irrelevant. Much of this leaked information seems intended to play into stereotypes about young African-American males. Here’s what everyone should know:
1. Prominent conservative websites published fake photos of Martin.......
2. The Sanford Police selectively leaked irrelevant, negative information about Martin.....
3. On Fox News, Geraldo said that Martin was dressed “like a wannabe gangster.”.....
4. Without any evidence, prominent right-wing bloggers suggested that Martin was a drug dealer......
5. Without any evidence, a right-wing columnist alleged that Martin assaulted a bus driver......
6. Zimmerman’s friend says Martin was to blame because he was disrespectful to Zimmerman......

 

[Revoltingest]

The only thing weird is that Foxnews and rightwing bloggers wasted no time in trying to smear the reputation of the deceased: What You Need To Know About The Smear Campaign Against Trayvon Martin (1995-2012)
Thus far these attacks have fallen into two categories: false and irrelevant. Much of this leaked information seems intended to play into stereotypes about young African-American males. Here’s what everyone should know:
1. Prominent conservative websites published fake photos of Martin.......
2. The Sanford Police selectively leaked irrelevant, negative information about Martin.....
3. On Fox News, Geraldo said that Martin was dressed “like a wannabe gangster.”.....
4. Without any evidence, prominent right-wing bloggers suggested that Martin was a drug dealer......
5. Without any evidence, a right-wing columnist alleged that Martin assaulted a bus driver......
6. Zimmerman’s friend says Martin was to blame because he was disrespectful to Zimmerman......

Goodness gracious....there appear to be 3 kinds of data:
1) Evidence confirming your beliefs
2) Lies
3) Damned lies (ie, Fox News)

 

[work in progress]

Goodness gracious....there appear to be 3 kinds of data:
1) Evidence confirming your beliefs
2) Lies
3) Damned lies (ie, Fox News)

That link you posted yesterday from a Fox affiliate in Florida was not only loaded with anti-black comments, they were posting false information...such as a picture supposedly of Trayvon Martin making gangsta gestures while posing for a picture. Not only would it have been irrelevant in any case, the picture was a fraud and taken from someone else's Facebook page. And that's a good example of how a smear campaign can get off and running with just a few little factoids, and loads of irrelevant issues....the "why was he wearing a hoodie?" by Geraldo, would be another one.

 

[Revoltingest]

That link you posted yesterday from a Fox affiliate in Florida was not only loaded with anti-black comments, they were posting false information...such as a picture supposedly of Trayvon Martin making gangsta gestures while posing for a picture. Not only would it have been irrelevant in any case, the picture was a fraud and taken from someone else's Facebook page. And that's a good example of how a smear campaign can get off and running with just a few little factoids, and loads of irrelevant issues....the "why was he wearing a hoodie?" by Geraldo, would be another one.

You sure base a lot on how you feel about sources.
That doesn't leave much to discuss.

 

[Kathryn]

Can you Amis please take weapons out of the hands of civilists and become a civilized nation?
Thank you in advance.

Like, I don't know -Norway?

 

[Kathryn]

Here you go.....
Armed Resistance to Crime: The Prevalence and Nature of Self-Defense with a Gun
(I've linked it before, & didn't want to be overly repetitive. I have enuf of a problem with that already.)

I don't have a study or a source to back my claim. All I can tell you is that within my own immediate family (and these family members are law abiding, no criminal record, and would probably qualify for a top secret clearance if we applied with the CIA!) three of us have STOPPED a violent crime from occurring because we were armed with a gun. Now - this is over a 35 year time period, but any of these three situations could have, and probably would have, ended poorly for us if we hadn't been legally armed with a gun.

So, thank you very kindly, but I'll continue to be a member of the NRA and I'll continue to legally own weapons - and use them, if necessary.

However, I will not use them to shoot teenagers walking down the street with Skittles in one hand and a soft drink in the other.

 

[Kathryn]

Heh.... next up.... NRAdicals

Look here, it's not so cut and dried.

I am a member of the NRA but as a member, I am appalled by Zimmerman's lack of judgment and a sense of civic responsibility.

Zimmerman is not representative of NRA values.

 

[Kathryn]

It gets weirder.....

Mom makes a buck....
Mother Seeks Trayvon Martin Trademarks | The Smoking Gun

Anti-white folk T-shirts on sale now.....
An Unfortunate T-Shirt Hits Florida Streets In Wake Of Trayvon Martin Killing | The Smoking Gun

CL Bryant is upset with antics of Jesse & Al....
Trayvon Martin | Jesse Jackson | Al Sharpton | The Daily Caller

Martin might not be the angel portrayed in the media.....
Trayvon Martin: George Zimmerman's account to police of the Trayvon Martin shooting. - Orlando Sentinel

I don't think Zimmerman should be exculpated for his actions, but the rush to judgement looks unwarranted.

None of this surprises me.

Look, Trayvon's family never set out to be a martyr's family. Trayvon didn't set out to be a martyr. Zimmerman didn't sign up to be a neighborhood watch captain hoping to kill someone (at least I don't think so). This story is full of flawed humans caught in a maelstrom of tragic events.

We're all flawed humans, and the media could get visceral with us if we were suddenly thrust into the international spotlight - who of us could stand there unblemished?

That is why we have to step back and look at the facts as objectively as possible.

I don't care if Trayvon smoked a little - or a lot of - weed. I don't care if Zimmerman is half Hispanic or if he had a long record of being heavy handed when it came to his neighborhood watch thing. What I care about is what happened THAT NIGHT. PERIOD. Was Zimmerman justified in using deadly force and killing Trayvon?

What a mess this whole thing is.

 

[Revoltingest]

Agreed.

(Ain't we boring.)

 

[Kathryn]

The media circus and special interest groups are all involved now. This guarantees that we will never, never get the pure facts of this tragedy delivered to us.

And unfortunately, dead boys can't tell us the rest of the story.

 

[Revoltingest]

The circus continues....
Registered Dem Killed Trayvon | Washington Free Beacon

 

[Kathryn]

Not much to that police report in regard to who was the aggressor in the situation. Zimmerman was slightly wounded. Martin was dead. Zimmerman was armed. Martin was unarmed. I don't see anything in the original police report indicating that other witnesses heard ZIMMERMAN calling for help. The first 9 1 1 call came in from Zimmerman at 7:19 pm. Within 13 minutes of that call there was a pursuit, a confrontation, Martin was shot, Martin died, police and paramedics arrived, Martin was assessed, CPR was given (usually goes on for several minutes) & Martin was officially pronounced dead. This shows that if Zimmerman had simply stayed by his truck rather than insisting on moving around trying to find and follow Martin, the police would have been there literally in about five minutes. Martin would be alive today if Zimmerman had followed simple instructions from emergency personnel.

http://cnninsession.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/martinpolicreport.pdf

 

[work in progress]

You sure base a lot on how you feel about sources.
That doesn't leave much to discuss.

I always take a look at the comments section (if available) on a link I've been given....this bothers you for some reason!

 

[Revoltingest]

I always take a look at the comments section (if available) on a link I've been given....this bothers you for some reason!

I ignore the comments, since how people feel sheds no light on the issues.

 

[Revoltingest]

Not much to that police report in regard to who was the aggressor in the situation. Zimmerman was slightly wounded. Martin was dead. Zimmerman was armed. Martin was unarmed. I don't see anything in the original police report indicating that other witnesses heard ZIMMERMAN calling for help. The first 9 1 1 call came in from Zimmerman at 7:19 pm. Within 13 minutes of that call there was a pursuit, a confrontation, Martin was shot, Martin died, police and paramedics arrived, Martin was assessed, CPR was given (usually goes on for several minutes) & Martin was officially pronounced dead. This shows that if Zimmerman had simply stayed by his truck rather than insisting on moving around trying to find and follow Martin, the police would have been there literally in about five minutes. Martin would be alive today if Zimmerman had followed simple instructions from emergency personnel.
http://cnninsession.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/martinpolicreport.pdf

I observe:
We all agree that Zimmerman shot & killed Martin.
From the transcript, the simple instructions were unclear.
The real issue: Where does it lie between murder & justified?
I say it's neither, & sits somewhere between these extremes.