True and False Prophets - Just and Honest Determination

[Muffled]

I believe there are many references in the Bible regarding Muhammad and Islam.

I believe people fantasizethat there are but a common sense approach reveals there are not.

 

[WonderingWorrier]

Really! Do you think so? I heard bestiality was forbidden in Jewish law. Is it not so in Christian law?

Do you really think I think so? I am able to think in multiple different ways to select the more likely to be closer to truth. So I am able to jump over into your line of thought and think beyond your showing what Wikipedia tells us.

Could probably find some seemingly supporting verses too.

An OT prophecy about Jesus:
"Whosoever lieth with a beast shall surely be put to death". Exodus.

Along with the teaching of specific goat and sheep positions.
"And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left". Matthew.


But that line of thought doesn't work against my line that includes all Bible verses which also includes the term "marriage of the lamb". As I have shown and explained to you earlier the word "wife" is in the same position as the word "sheep".

I also know why the sheep are on the right hand (East) and goats on the left (West). And I know why Isaiah said the wolf is with the lamb, the leopard with the kid goat, and the lion with the calf.

North - West - East
Cattle - Goat - Sheep
Lion - Leopard - Wolf

Are you not able to think in a line of thought that takes all bible sentences at face value not twisting any of the words beyond exactly what is being said?

 

[Aupmanyav]

"Whosoever lieth with a beast shall surely be put to death". Exodus.
"And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left". Matthew.
As I have shown and explained to you earlier the word "wife" is in the same position as the word "sheep".

That is what I expected, but you wrote, "It may be the marriage of the lamb is God lawful permission for a man to have relations with livestock."
I am not concerned with sheep and goats.
I do not think that is fair to women, placing them in the same position as 'sheep'. Very derogatory.

 

[WonderingWorrier]

That is what I expected, but you wrote, "It may be the marriage of the lamb is God lawful permission for a man to have relations with livestock."

Which was in line with what you were saying.

Here:

never married till even when he was 33, Mary must have been very annoyed. People wonder why?

And here:

It may be pointing to some hormonal imbalance. Sexuality and marital status of Jesus - Wikipedia

You said it may be pointing to.

It may is not it is.

It may be the marriage of the lamb is God lawful permission for a man to have relations with livestock.

Joining a couple of bible verses together to form a meaning is not the same as joining a verse into the whole bible.

I am not concerned with sheep and goats.

Sheep and goats are not the concern. The three words Cattle, Goats, and Sheep are.

I do not think that is fair to women, placing them in the same position as 'sheep'. Very derogatory.

I don't think you are grasping what I am saying. You are still stuck on the word.

The word wife is in the same position as wine and gold (and sheep).

Brass - Silver - Gold.
Bread - Oil - Wine
Cattle - Goat - Sheep

As children are in the same position as goat.


I was telling you this stuff before.

Here:

"Thy wife shall be as a fruitful vine by the sides of thine house: thy children like olive plants round about thy table". Psalm.

Children of God are in olive tree/oil position, and wife of God is in grape vine/wine position.


I can also show you in the vertical alignment of the word structure the word sheep is in the same placement as wine (and wife).

Bread - Oil - Wine
Corn - Olive - Grape
Field - Oliveyard - Vineyard
Sea - River - Stream
Valley - Hill - Mountain
Cattle - Goat - Sheep

I could try to explain the concept to you in a different way without words.

So we have three positions. We will call them 1, 2, and 3.

And we will also call them A, B, and C.

Both ways are equal.

1 - 2 - 3
A - B - C

So can you hear the saying "C is 3" without it sounding like nonsense or some kind of magic?

Is this any easier to understand?

 

[Brian2]

Using this information, I see the position of Truth can state that the last 4 Messengers from God, oldest to newest are Jesus Christ, Muhammad, the Bab and Baha'u'llah.

In the cause of the Bab, He was also the Elijah for Baha'u'llah.

The debate is from those that support and oppose that position. What support do you have that Jesus Christ, Muhammad, the Bab and Baha'u'llah are not Messengers.

It is also possible we can broach the truth of any other claimed Messenger.

Muhammad, the Bab and Baha'u'llah are false prophets because of their fruits, they deny the Bible, the Word of God, and cause their followers also to deny it.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Muhammad, the Bab and Baha'u'llah are false prophets because of their fruits, they deny the Bible, the Word of God, and cause their followers also to deny it.

Your statement is not true.

Regards Tony

 

[WonderingWorrier]

Muhammad, the Bab and Baha'u'llah are false prophets because of their fruits, they deny the Bible, the Word of God, and cause their followers also to deny it.

I can say the fruits of Muhammad are correct according to the Bible. He speaks of the fruits of three different places.

"gardens of grapes, and olives, and pomegranates, each similar (in kind) yet different (in variety): when they begin to bear fruit, feast your eyes with the fruit and the ripeness thereof. Behold! in these things there are signs for people who believe". Muhammad.


Corn - Oilve - Grape
Pomegranate - Fig - Apple


As the Bible speaks of brass pomegranates, and golden apples.

A word fitly spoken is like apples of gold in pictures of silver. Proverbs.

"And a chapiter of brass was upon it; and the height of one chapiter was five cubits, with network and pomegranates upon the chapiters round about, all of brass. The second pillar also and the pomegranates were like unto these". Jeremiah

Brass - Silver - Gold
Corn - Oilve - Grape
Pomegranate - Fig - Apple


You can know them by where they put their fruits. Like golden apples.

 

[Brian2]

Your statement is not true.

Regards Tony

Muhammad denies that Jesus died for our sins, so he denies the gospel message.
Baha'u'llah did not fulfil any prophecies that the returned Christ is supposed to fulfil and so cannot be the returned Christ.
If the Bab points to Baha'u'llah then he also is a false prophet.

 

[WonderingWorrier]

Muhammad denies that Jesus died for our sins, so he denies the gospel message.

There are Gnostic Christians that believe Jesus wasn't crucified but there is wisdom in the message of the crucifixion. Would you also say they are denying the gospel message.

Could it be possible Muhammad was saying the same thing. Jesus wasn't actually crucified it just appears so.

"That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not".

Because he clearly accepts the gospel message:
It is He Who sent down to thee (step by step), in truth, the Book, confirming what went before it; and He sent down the Law (of Moses) and the Gospel (of Jesus) before this, as a guide to mankind, and He sent down the criterion (of judgment between right and wrong).


Edit: Consider this verse.
"But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness". Corinthians.

 

[Brian2]

There are Gnostic Christians that believe Jesus wasn't crucified but there is wisdom in the message of the crucifixion. Would you also say they are denying the gospel message.

Could it be possible Muhammad was saying the same thing. Jesus wasn't actually crucified it just appears so.

"That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not".

Because he clearly accepts the gospel message:
It is He Who sent down to thee (step by step), in truth, the Book, confirming what went before it; and He sent down the Law (of Moses) and the Gospel (of Jesus) before this, as a guide to mankind, and He sent down the criterion (of judgment between right and wrong).


Edit: Consider this verse.
"But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness". Corinthians.

Yes I would say that gnostic Christians are also denying the gospel message.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Muhammad, the Bab and Baha'u'llah are false prophets because of their fruits, they deny the Bible, the Word of God, and cause their followers also to deny it.

Ask the native people across the continents (including Europe) as to what Christianity did with them.
So, any one who differs with what Christians say is wrong? Get off your high horse.
What proof do you have for your God, his son, and what all I wrote in my last post?