Muffled
Jesus in me
I believe people fantasizethat there are but a common sense approach reveals there are not.
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True and False Prophets - Just and Honest Determination
- Thread starter TransmutingSoul
- Start date
WonderingWorrier
Active Member
Do you really think I think so? I am able to think in multiple different ways to select the more likely to be closer to truth. So I am able to jump over into your line of thought and think beyond your showing what Wikipedia tells us.
Could probably find some seemingly supporting verses too.
An OT prophecy about Jesus:
"Whosoever lieth with a beast shall surely be put to death". Exodus.
Along with the teaching of specific goat and sheep positions.
"And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left". Matthew.
But that line of thought doesn't work against my line that includes all Bible verses which also includes the term "marriage of the lamb". As I have shown and explained to you earlier the word "wife" is in the same position as the word "sheep".
I also know why the sheep are on the right hand (East) and goats on the left (West). And I know why Isaiah said the wolf is with the lamb, the leopard with the kid goat, and the lion with the calf.
Are you not able to think in a line of thought that takes all bible sentences at face value not twisting any of the words beyond exactly what is being said?
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Aupmanyav
Be your own guru
That is what I expected, but you wrote, "It may be the marriage of the lamb is God lawful permission for a man to have relations with livestock."
I am not concerned with sheep and goats.
I do not think that is fair to women, placing them in the same position as 'sheep'. Very derogatory.
WonderingWorrier
Active Member
Which was in line with what you were saying.
Here:
And here:
You said it may be pointing to.
Joining a couple of bible verses together to form a meaning is not the same as joining a verse into the whole bible.
Sheep and goats are not the concern. The three words Cattle, Goats, and Sheep are.
I don't think you are grasping what I am saying. You are still stuck on the word.
The word wife is in the same position as wine and gold (and sheep).
Brass - Silver - Gold.
Bread - Oil - Wine
Cattle - Goat - Sheep
As children are in the same position as goat.
I was telling you this stuff before.
I could try to explain the concept to you in a different way without words.
So we have three positions. We will call them 1, 2, and 3.
And we will also call them A, B, and C.
Both ways are equal.
1 - 2 - 3
A - B - C
So can you hear the saying "C is 3" without it sounding like nonsense or some kind of magic?
Is this any easier to understand?
Brian2
Veteran Member
Muhammad, the Bab and Baha'u'llah are false prophets because of their fruits, they deny the Bible, the Word of God, and cause their followers also to deny it.
WonderingWorrier
Active Member
I can say the fruits of Muhammad are correct according to the Bible. He speaks of the fruits of three different places.
"gardens of grapes, and olives, and pomegranates, each similar (in kind) yet different (in variety): when they begin to bear fruit, feast your eyes with the fruit and the ripeness thereof. Behold! in these things there are signs for people who believe". Muhammad.
Corn - Oilve - Grape
Pomegranate - Fig - Apple
As the Bible speaks of brass pomegranates, and golden apples.
A word fitly spoken is like apples of gold in pictures of silver. Proverbs.
"And a chapiter of brass was upon it; and the height of one chapiter was five cubits, with network and pomegranates upon the chapiters round about, all of brass. The second pillar also and the pomegranates were like unto these". Jeremiah
Brass - Silver - Gold
Corn - Oilve - Grape
Pomegranate - Fig - Apple
You can know them by where they put their fruits. Like golden apples.
Brian2
Veteran Member
Muhammad denies that Jesus died for our sins, so he denies the gospel message.
Baha'u'llah did not fulfil any prophecies that the returned Christ is supposed to fulfil and so cannot be the returned Christ.
If the Bab points to Baha'u'llah then he also is a false prophet.
WonderingWorrier
Active Member
There are Gnostic Christians that believe Jesus wasn't crucified but there is wisdom in the message of the crucifixion. Would you also say they are denying the gospel message.
Could it be possible Muhammad was saying the same thing. Jesus wasn't actually crucified it just appears so.
"That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not".
Because he clearly accepts the gospel message:
It is He Who sent down to thee (step by step), in truth, the Book, confirming what went before it; and He sent down the Law (of Moses) and the Gospel (of Jesus) before this, as a guide to mankind, and He sent down the criterion (of judgment between right and wrong).
Edit: Consider this verse.
"But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness". Corinthians.
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Brian2
Veteran Member
Yes I would say that gnostic Christians are also denying the gospel message.
Aupmanyav
Be your own guru
Ask the native people across the continents (including Europe) as to what Christianity did with them.
So, any one who differs with what Christians say is wrong? Get off your high horse.
What proof do you have for your God, his son, and what all I wrote in my last post?
I fully disagree, you are very very very (infinite very) wrong.
The world is as it is, because it is facing the judgement of the rejection of the Promised One/s. Since Jesus, Muhammad, the Bab and Baha'u'llah.
Muhammad's Message was correcting the incorrect doctrine of the Trinity, that for 300 years had polluted the minds of those that embraced Jesus as the Christ, making Jesus God and unable to see Christ in Muhammad and destined to blind them to the very event they await, the "Day of God", the day of the Everlasting Father, the Prince of Peace.
Muhammad and Baha'u'llah have both given testomony to Jesus as Christ, an Annointed Messenger from God.
I will offer only what Muhammed in the Quran says about Jesus.
“…I have come to you with a sign from your Lord: I will make the shape of a bird for you out of clay, then breathe into it and, with God’s permission, it will become a real bird; I will heal the blind and the leper, and bring the dead back to life with God’s permission; I will tell you what you may eat and what you may store up in your houses. There truly is a sign for you in this, if you are believers. I have come to confirm the truth of the Torah which preceded me, and to make some things lawful to you which used to be forbidden. I have come to you with a sign from your Lord. Be mindful of God, obey me: God is my Lord and your Lord, so serve Him– that is a straight path.” (3:49-51)
There is more truth about Jesus in the Quran, and an important part is also these two verses.
“[They] said, ‘We have killed the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, the Messenger of God.’ They did not kill him, nor did they crucify him, though it was made to appear like that to them; those that disagreed about him are full of doubt, with no knowledge to follow, only supposition: they certainly did not kill him – God raised him up to Himself. God is Almighty and Wise” (4:157-158)
One can kill a flesh body, but one is not able to Kill the Spirit that is Christ and Jesus never left us and never will, the Quran confirms this as well.
"I told them only what You commanded me to: “Worship God, my Lord and your Lord.” I was a witness over them during my time among them. Ever since You took my soul, You alone have been the watcher over them: You are witness to all things’” (5:117)
The making of the flesh Jesus into God, is an addition to scriptures and is the exact thing Jesus warned his followers not to do, "do not add to the words of the book".
Regards Tony
Aupmanyav
Be your own guru
World is like what it is because people believed whatever trash these people said or wrote, starting from Moses and Zoroaster. All pretenders.
Bahaollah does not even count. He has a following of less than 7 million people. Even Mirza Ghulam Ahmad has more followers.
Does it matter what Bible and Qur'an say? God and Jibril are fiction.
Aupmanyav
Be your own guru
You need to give evidence for what you say.Why should any one believe you when you cannot give any evidence for existence of your God, soul in humans or animals, and that a 19th century uneducated Iranian was chosen by your God to be his messenger. That, before any BS.
Not just for the Bahai, but all who make such claims, including theist Hindus (my being a Hindu does not matter. My Hinduism does not depend on false claims).
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WonderingWorrier
Active Member
So you are saying there are false prophets and false Christians being those who are not in agreement with your understanding of the gospel message. But why is your understanding of the message deniable?
I would like you to show me you are in fact a true Christian that accepts the true gospel message. So far you have only named false prophets but in truth a true Christian that understands the message could name true prophets.
Can you identify any true prophets outside the Bible, or not? Please put forward a name and reason for acceptance if you can.
Brian2
Veteran Member
That answer has nothing to do with what I said.
Brian2
Veteran Member
Muhammad denies the gospel of Jesus because the gospel and the OT prophecies required the death of the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world by His death.
Muhammad says that Jesus was not killed or crucified. Do you deny this? Do you see how this means that the gospel of Jesus is denied by Muhammad? Maybe Muhammad did not know what the gospel is. Do you know what the gospel is? Do you know that it is called the "everlasting gospel" (Revelation 14:6) and that the Covenant that Jesus set up with His blood is called he "Eternal Covenant" (Heb 13:20)?
Baha'i says that the time of Jesus ended with the coming of Muhammad. So much for eternal covenant and everlasting gospel.
Do you see how what Baha'i teaches is against the teachings of the Bible and against Christ? The followers of Baha'u'llah need to deny the Bible and that is the fruit of Baha'u'llah, the false prophet.
It does not matter that Muhammad and Baha'u'llah said some seemingly nice things about Jesus. That does not make them for Jesus.
The flesh Jesus is the Son of God who came from His Father. He is in His Father and the Father is in Him. His body was a material body and the material was created but Jesus was not created and has been with the Father from eternity. Jesus and His Father are of the same essence, the same nature, and the Son is exactly like His Father and owns all things that the Father has, the Father's glory, the Father's power, the Father's name, the Father's authority.
These things and much more about Jesus are from the New Testament.
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Brian2
Veteran Member
The Church has the prophetic message from God to share with the world. I don't need to identify any one in particular.
Aupmanyav
Be your own guru
Muslims, LDS, Bahais, Ahmadiyyas and others have their own word of God. Why should they agree to what Bible or Jesus have said?
That is why I said 'get down from your high horse'.