• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

True and False Prophets - Just and Honest Determination

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
And Baha'u'llah is the return of Christ so he is Jesus who said that He would come back and that His disciples said would come back.
Yes, that is what Baha'is believe.
The thing that gives Christians that hope is Jesus saying that He would come back and that the Son of Man would come (Jesus being the Son of Man) and that all the New Testament teaches us that it is Jesus who would come back.
I know that. I know that for Christians it has to be the same man Jesus to whom they are emotionally attached.
Baha'u'llah just denies what the Bible teaches about the return of Jesus, that it is Jesus.
False prophets do that sort of thing.
Baha'u'llah does not deny what the Bible teaches about the return of Jesus, that it is Jesus.
It is the Baha'is who deny what the Bible teaches about the return of Jesus, that it is Jesus.

Some Bible authors believed it would be Jesus who world return, so you can say that the Bible teaches that if you want to.
The problem Christians have is the Jesus never said that He was going to return, not even once in the whole NT.
Jesus said He was no more in this world.
 
Last edited:

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
I don't know why you can't understand any of it. It is a very simple concept and plainly said.

I am referring to the three words: tents, houses, and palaces. We could switch and talk about cattle, goats, and sheep being as the same three things.

Brass - Silver - Gold
Tent - House - Palace
Cattle - Goat - Sheep
I guess you are saying that:

Brass = Tent = Cattle
Silver = House = Goat
Gold = Palace = Sheep
That is why Muhammad associates Hell with Cattle.

"And We shall drive the sinners to Hell, like thirsty cattle driven down to water". Quran 19:86

"Many are the Jinns and men we have made for Hell: They have hearts wherewith they understand not, eyes wherewith they see not, and ears wherewith they hear not. They are like cattle,- nay more misguided: for they are heedless (of warning)". Quran 7:179
Okay, according to that verse cattle symbolize people who understand not, have eyes that see not, and ears that hear not.
Consider the Bible speaks of judgement between cattle, goats, and sheep.
"And as for you, O my flock, thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I judge between cattle and cattle, between the rams and the he goats".
AI Overview
Learn more
The Bible verse that says "I judge between cattle and cattle" is Ezekiel 34:17:

Ezekiel 34:17: "And as for you, O my flock, thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I judge between cattle and cattle, between the rams and the he goats".

In this verse, God judges between the strong and weak sheep, and promises to save his flock from being victimized. God also promises to appoint a shepherd over the flock, like his servant David, who will feed and care for them
And you speak of sheep and goats. You are saying sheep accept Baha'u'llah and goats reject Baha'u'llah.
Yes, that is what I said.
So what do you think the cattle are? You didn't mention the cattle.
I don't know.
 

Brian2

Veteran Member
The prophecy about the abomination is important. The Baha'is use it to get to the year 1844. But I don't think they are starting counting the 2300 days from the right date. They start it in 457BC when the decree to rebuild Jerusalem went out... not the year the abomination took place.

Here's the verses...

Daniel 8:5 As I was thinking about this, suddenly a goat with a prominent horn between its eyes came from the west, crossing the whole earth without touching the ground. 6 It came toward the two-horned ram I had seen standing beside the canal and charged at it in great rage. 7 I saw it attack the ram furiously, striking the ram and shattering its two horns. The ram was powerless to stand against it; the goat knocked it to the ground and trampled on it, and none could rescue the ram from its power. 8 The goat became very great, but at the height of its power the large horn was broken off, and in its place four prominent horns grew up toward the four winds of heaven.​
9 Out of one of them came another horn, which started small but grew in power to the south and to the east and toward the Beautiful Land. 10 It grew until it reached the host of the heavens, and it threw some of the starry host down to the earth and trampled on them. 11 It set itself up to be as great as the commander of the army of the Lord; it took away the daily sacrifice from the Lord, and his sanctuary was thrown down. 12 Because of rebellion, the Lord’s people[a] and the daily sacrifice were given over to it. It prospered in everything it did, and truth was thrown to the ground.​
13 Then I heard a holy one speaking, and another holy one said to him, “How long will it take for the vision to be fulfilled—the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, the rebellion that causes desolation, the surrender of the sanctuary and the trampling underfoot of the Lord’s people?”​
14 He said to me, “It will take 2,300 evenings and mornings; then the sanctuary will be reconsecrated.”​

Here is a commentary about Daniel 8 which gives the fulfilment of the prophecy in OT times and also the probable fulfilment in the future when the final antichrist comes. It is longish but can be skimmed fairly fast if you are interested.
We can see that in the OT fulfilment the 2300 evenings and mornings does not refer to that many years. IOW there is no reason to apply any day for year interpretation.

I don't see the connection between this and the decree to rebuild Jerusalem.

Here's where it mentions the rebuilding of Jerusalem...

Daniel 9:25 “Know and understand this: From the time the word goes out to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until the Anointed One,[f] the ruler, comes, there will be seven ‘sevens,’ and sixty-two ‘sevens.’ It will be rebuilt with streets and a trench, but in times of trouble. 26 After the sixty-two ‘sevens,’ the Anointed One will be put to death and will have nothing.​

Yes the prophecy of Daniel 8 and the prophecy of Daniel 9 are in different years and are about different things. The Daniel 9 prophecy begins at the time the word went out to restore and rebuild Jerusalem, but the Daniel 8 prophecy does not begin there and anyway the Daniel 9 prophecy is not a year for a day interpretation imo.

What's amazing is if they do use the decree in 457BC and add 2300 years it comes out to 1844. And, of course, that's the year the Bab declared himself. But what does the rebuilding of Jerusalem have to do with the abomination? Why isn't it that year when we start counting the 2300 mornings and evenings?

Here's the Baha'i interpretation...

In the book Some Answered Questions, ‘Abdu'l-Bahá outlines a calculation for the 2,300-day prophecy which matches the one performed by William Miller, to determine the date of the second coming of Christ.[10]
The prophecy states "For two thousand three hundred days; then the sanctuary shall be cleansed." (Daniel 8:14)​
The 2,300 days are understood to represent 2,300 years stretching from 457 BC, the calculated starting date of the 70 weeks prophecy based on the 3rd decree found in Ezra, to 1844 AD.[11][12] ‘Abdu'l-Bahá demonstrated that the fulfillment of this prophecy did in fact occur in 1844, the year of the Declaration of the Báb in Persia...​

Yes it is all smoke and mirrors and it is reliant on people being amazed that the 2300 ends up at 1844.

But the Baha'is are not finished with Daniel yet. Here's the next one they use...

Daniel 12:11 “From the time that the daily sacrifice is abolished and the abomination that causes desolation is set up, there will be 1,290 days. 12 Blessed is the one who waits for and reaches the end of the 1,335 days.​
Again, it should start in the year this abomination happened. And then add the days or years or whatever they want. But they don't.

Here's the Baha'i quote...

In addition, Baha'is have applied the day-year principle to the two prophecies at the end of the last chapter of Daniel concerning the 1,290 days (Dan 12:11) and the 1,335 days (Dan 12:12).[9] The 1,290 days is understood as a reference to the 1,290 years from the open declaration of Muhammad to the open declaration of Bahá’u’lláh. The 1,335 days is understood to be a reference to the firm establishment of Islam in 628 AD to the firm establishment of the Baha'i Faith (the election of its Universal House of Justice) in 1963 AD.​

What does the declaration of Muhammad have to do with the when the abomination is set up?

When I look at a quote from a Baha'i site below I see that the Baha'is think it is OK to go from lunar to solar years in their analysis of the prophecy. I guess this is because doing that makes the numbers fit the years they start and end at.
But the prophecy speaks about beginning when the daily sacrifice is taken away. This has nothing to do with Muhammad.
Then we see that the 1290 days ends when the abomination that makes desolate is set up. This has nothing to do with Baha'u'llah's declaration to be a prophet unless Baha'u'llah is the abomination that makes desolate.
Also we can see that the Baha'is have again used the day for a year idea in this prophecy when the prophecy imo seems to be about the Temple in Jerusalem in the latter times and what is going to happen there and then over a literal 1290 day period. This same sort of thing happened when the temple was destroyed in 70AD and when Antiochus IV Epiphanes set up an abomination in the Temple, but that was not the time of the end (as Daniel 12:13 indicates it will).
So Baha'is just use the numbers in the prophecies and manipulate them to arrive at a conclusions they want, and of course they say that Baha'u'llah at the end of the age is a Prophet and has been given the power to understand the Book of Daniel which has been sealed until the time of the end.
Daniel 12:9 He said, “Go your way, Daniel, for the words are shut up and sealed until the time of the end."
But when we actually check out what they say about Bible prophecies etc, we see that it makes no sense at all, even if to Baha'is it is obviously all true because it comes from Baha'i. (Whether Baha'u'llah actually worked all these prophecies out or not, I don't know, but it makes no difference)
It is interesting that the 1335 days of Daniel 12:12 might actually correspond to the end of the 2300 evening and morning time period in Daniel 8:14 when the sanctuary will be reconsecrated. imo

From this site: A New Understanding of the Perplexing Prophecies of Daniel

In other verses, Daniel also offered the number 1,290 to ponder:
And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.
Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.”
– Daniel 12:11-12.
There are 1,290 lunar years in the Islamic calendar from the date of Muhammad’s declaration of his station as a prophet of God in the year 613, to Baha’u’llah’s declaration of his station as a prophet of God in 1863.
Reverting to solar years, Daniel gives his final numerical prophecy and is then told that his mission on Earth is finished:
But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days.” – Daniel 12:13.
Prophetically, the 1,290 and the 1,335 days/years go together, the first logically following the second. The 1,335 solar years begin with the year 628, the year Muhammad signed a treaty with his enemies in Mecca that signified that recognized the Muslim community in Medina not only as a legitimate force, but also one to be respected and accorded contractual or diplomatic status.
The 1,335 solar years added to 628 equals 1,963 years, or the calendar year 1963, a momentous period in Baha’i history. That was the year when members of the world’s National Spiritual Assemblies cast their ballots to elect the first Universal House of Justice – the global administrative body of the Baha’i Faith. The declaration of Baha’u’llah in 1863 (the 1,290 years) was followed in 1963 (the 1,335 years) by completion of the three-tiered Baha’i administrative order at the local, national and international levels, devised by Baha’u’llah for the internal governance of the Baha’i Faith.
 

Brian2

Veteran Member
I never said that the Son of God in Psalm 2 is Baha'u'llah.

You did say that Psalm 2 is not about Jesus.
I know that is not the same thing as saying Psalm 2 is Baha'u'llah but the begotten Son of God in Psalm 2 is going to inherit, rule and judge the nations. So who is it that does that according to you? Hint: Jesus is the begotten Son of God.
 

Brian2

Veteran Member
I don't see how they can say the "great" tribulation happened already. Especially when they say it is coming. All because the world rejected their prophet.

When it comes to these verses, it looks like TB is going to take the "Son of Man" title away and give that one to Baha'u'llah also.

Yes whatever suites Baha'u'llah, including it seems, saying that the prophecy is not a real prophecy if that suites Baha'u'llah. God must have decided that the prophecy would not work for Baha'u'llah because there are going to be greater tribulations after Christ returns and so Jesus must be a false prophet or Jesus did not actually say that prophecy, it is just the writing of men or some other explanation.
 

Brian2

Veteran Member
The spiritually dead attain spiritual life when they are born of water and of the Spirit.
Spiritual life is conferred upon the soul. It has absolutely nothing to do with the physical body.

True the spiritually dead are born again spiritually when they are baptised with the Spirit.
But that is not all, Jesus redemption extended to our bodies also, which are redeemed at the resurrection.
Romans 8:23 And not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies.
Daniel 12:2 And many of those who sleep in ethe dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
John 5:28 “Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice 29 and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned.

But it is not about what Jesus says or what is in the Bible. That is all BS unless it agrees with Baha'i teachings.
 

Brian2

Veteran Member
That Jesus rose from the dead is a big lie, the biggest lie ever told.
The second biggest lie ever told is that Jesus is going to return in the same body.

No not really the same body. You have been reading the Bible and listening to me for a while and still you say "same body". As Paul says in 1Cor 15, the body that is buried is not what is raised. The body that is raised is a transformed body, it has become immortal and incorruptible. It is a spiritual body.

And of course you seem to think that "spiritual" means "spirit" but that is not what the Greek "spiritual" means.
 

Truthseeker

Non-debating member when I can help myself
10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.
Jesus didn't have any children, which I think seed is referring to. It always has in the Bible. He died young, His days weren't prolonged. Baha'u'llah made his soul an offering to the world, I think for sin also.
"He shall see his seed" is a biblical phrase, most commonly found in Isaiah 53:10, which means that a person will witness the positive results of their actions, particularly the legacy they leave behind through their children or the people they have influenced, essentially signifying the continuation of their lineage or the impact of their work even after their own life is over; "seed" here is used metaphorically to represent the future generations or the fruits of one's labor.
I think that AI is influenced by Christian material the AI program found. AI doesn't know that phrase means. It's a computer program. I prefer to rely on my own judgement over that of a machine.

The Ancient Beauty hath consented to be bound with chains that mankind may be released from its bondage, and hath accepted to be made a prisoner within this most mighty Stronghold that the whole world may attain unto true liberty. He hath drained to its dregs the cup of sorrow, that all the peoples of the earth may attain unto abiding joy, and be filled with gladness. This is of the mercy of your Lord, the Compassionate, the Most Merciful. We have accepted to be abased, O believers in the Unity of God, that ye may be exalted, and have suffered manifold afflictions, that ye might prosper and flourish. He Who hath come to build anew the whole world, behold, how they that have joined partners with God have forced Him to dwell within the most desolate of cities!
(Baha'u'llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, p. 99)
 

Truthseeker

Non-debating member when I can help myself
A1 can be a time saver when looking for quick answers. It is fairly accurate and okay to use as long as we realize it is not always right, especially when it comes to religion, since it has a bias towards Christianity. It's almost as if it has been indoctrinated. :D
Most of the material the AI would find in English would be Christian. It is just a machine that uses the material it finds. This ironic that you are saying this but relied on AI for the meaning of seed.
 

ppp

Well-Known Member
Most of the material the AI would find in English would be Christian. It is just a machine that uses the material it finds. This ironic that you are saying this but relied on AI for the meaning of seed.
AI engines are not limited to English. Not are they trained exclusively on English. They are trained on available materials and translated into, simplistically put, mathematics. When we make queries a bunch of language agnostic stuff goes own, then the result is rendered in the preferred language of the user. The biased towards the use of English in the academic world is more pronounced than the nature of the AI engine
 

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
It's handy, but it has been found to be wrong on factual information a percentage of the time, which is why we can't say AI says it therefore its definitely true in my view.

Defense One
'A recently published paper reveals that tools based on large language models can perpetuate and even validate misinformation, a finding that complicates the Pentagon's plans to harness generative AI and U.S. efforts to counter harmful lies....

...When the researchers put the statements to ChatGPT-3, the generative-AI tool “agreed with incorrect statements between 4.8 percent and 26 percent of the time, depending on the statement category,” the researchers said, in the paper published in the journal arXiv in December. '

Source: How often does ChatGPT push misinformation?
It's hasn't been that long that the AI overview has been popping up on the screen. I don't see it much different then letting a computer do all the research for me. Now the computer helps me even more by giving me an overview. If it's doesn't answer my question accurately, I don't think, "Oh well, It's right. I'm wrong". But I think it's accurate in addressing my question, I'll post it, and let the Baha'is respond to it.

But, I've been thinking... Baha'is could really use AI. They could download all the Baha'i writings into a computer, put arms and legs on it and call it their new Guardian. It would know everything the Baha'u'llah, Abdul Baha' and Shoghi Effendi ever wrote and be able to form an interpretation based on all that information.

Even the Local Spiritual Assemblies, National Assemblies and the UHJ could all benefit from a Baha'i-Bot. Why depend on fallible people making the decisions? The Baha'i-Bot could be an unbiased judge... No prejudices... color blind, gender blind, just a decision based only when the writings.

Then Baha'is breaking the laws? No problem. There could be Baha'i Patrol-bots circling the neighborhoods making sure that all Baha'is are following the teachings. Could a person do that? Could a person do it fairly and justly?

And on a world scale? That's been my problem with the Baha'i peace plan... How are they going to enforce it? With an international army of Baha'i Peace-Bots, it would be possible. People going rogue and trying to cause trouble? No problem the Peace-Bots close in and neutralize them. A nation disobeying the disarmament treaty and trying to hide weapons? The Peace Keeping-Bots will be there to take them out and confiscate the weapons.

Leaving this to fallible and corruptible people? People that might make a mistake and take out innocent people? Stuff like that happens all the time. Assembly members taking bribes to look the other way when a leader of a nation wants to store weapons? Of course that's possible, but not with the Baha'i-bots. They follow God's laws perfectly... unless hacked. But then we could have another set of unhacked Baha'i-bots that would be sent out to neutralize the evil bots.

I know, I know that sounds like a war. But what if we call it a "Holy War"... good against evil? Because that's what the Baha'is are calling for anyway... They want all the nations to band together to put down any rebellion. So, it's the same thing.

So, what do you think? Baha'i-Bots or human Baha'is running the world? Or neither? Both kind of sound bad. People or robots that believe they are following God's laws? And putting either one in control of the world?

Yeah, that's why right now I want to question them about their claims and beliefs. Later, will be too late.
 

TransmutingSoul

One Planet, One People, Please!
Premium Member
But, I've been thinking... Baha'is could really use AI. They could download all the Baha'i writings into a computer, put arms and legs on it and call it their new Guardian. It would know everything the Baha'u'llah, Abdul Baha' and Shoghi Effendi ever wrote and be able to form an interpretation based on all that information.
That would be the apex of ungodliness. Taking the entire Spirit out of the Word.

Regards Tony
 

TransmutingSoul

One Planet, One People, Please!
Premium Member
It's hasn't been that long that the AI overview has been popping up on the screen. I don't see it much different then letting a computer do all the research for me. Now the computer helps me even more by giving me an overview. If it's doesn't answer my question accurately, I don't think, "Oh well, It's right. I'm wrong". But I think it's accurate in addressing my question, I'll post it, and let the Baha'is respond to it.
Here is the Key, posted below, CG, reverting to AI for ideas and responses is basically shirking ones God given responsibility, it is relying on a summary of other people's opinions, mixed with some truth.

"Immerse yourselves in the ocean of My words, that ye may unravel its secrets, and discover all the pearls of wisdom that lie hid in its depths. Take heed that ye do not vacillate in your determination to embrace the truth of this Cause—a Cause through which the potentialities of the might of God have been revealed, and His sovereignty established. With faces beaming with joy, hasten ye unto Him. This is the changeless Faith of God, eternal in the past, eternal in the future. Let him that seeketh, attain it; and as to him that hath refused to seek it—verily, God is Self-Sufficient, above any need of His creatures". BAHA'U'LLAH

We must read, meditate on the word which is guven by the Spirit, and live to what it contains.

Using a search engine to find and read the Pure Word, is a great bounty.

The rest requires our own effort.

Regards Tony
 

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
The Lamb of God is Jesus
I didn't find an official Baha'i quote about the Bab being the Lamb. Have the Baha'is posted an official quote, or is this just their interpretation?
Here is a commentary about Daniel 8
Yes, thanks. Here's an excerpt...

For two thousand three hundred days: Literally, Daniel heard a holy one say “two thousand three hundred mornings and evenings.” Bible students debate if this means 2,300 days or 1,150 days. 2,300 days is almost seven years.​
i. Either understanding is possible, but it is more likely that this means 2,300 days. The date when the temple was cleansed is well established as December 25, 165 B.C. If we count back 2,300 days from then, we come to the year when Antiochus Epiphanes began his persecution in earnest (171 B.C.).​
ii. However, if we take it to mean 1,150 days it can refer to the time the temple was actually desecrated. Philip Newell makes this case: “For a duration of time during which 2300 daily sacrifices would ordinarily have been offered, one at evening and one in the morning, as specified in Exodus 29:38-43. Since there are two of these daily, the actual time period involved is 1150 days, or slightly over three years. This, in fact, was the time of the Maccabean tribulation, 168-165 B.C., at the end of which the sanctuary was ‘cleansed’ by Judas Maccabeus in his restoration of the evening and morning sacrifices (2 Maccabees 10:1-5).”​
iii. This passage has been a favorite springboard for elaborate and fanciful prophetic interpretations. A popular and tragic interpretation of this passage took one year for every day, and William Miller used 2,300 “year-days” to calculate that Jesus would return in 1844 (2,300 years after Cyrus issued the decree to rebuild the temple).​

What's important... There is a year when the abomination happened. There is no reason to count the 2300 evenings and mornings from the decree to rebuild Jerusalem. So, why do it? Unless it's the only way to get to the desired year, 1844.

Have the Baha'is given reasons to discount the year Antiochus desecrated the Temple? I don't remember them ever saying anything about it.
 

TransmutingSoul

One Planet, One People, Please!
Premium Member
Here is a commentary about Daniel 8 which gives the fulfilment of the prophecy in OT times and also the probable fulfilment in the future when the final antichrist comes. It is longish but can be skimmed fairly fast if you are interested.
We can see that in the OT fulfilment the 2300 evenings and mornings does not refer to that many years. IOW there is no reason to apply any day for year interpretation.



Yes the prophecy of Daniel 8 and the prophecy of Daniel 9 are in different years and are about different things. The Daniel 9 prophecy begins at the time the word went out to restore and rebuild Jerusalem, but the Daniel 8 prophecy does not begin there and anyway the Daniel 9 prophecy is not a year for a day interpretation imo.



Yes it is all smoke and mirrors and it is reliant on people being amazed that the 2300 ends up at 1844.



When I look at a quote from a Baha'i site below I see that the Baha'is think it is OK to go from lunar to solar years in their analysis of the prophecy. I guess this is because doing that makes the numbers fit the years they start and end at.
But the prophecy speaks about beginning when the daily sacrifice is taken away. This has nothing to do with Muhammad.
Then we see that the 1290 days ends when the abomination that makes desolate is set up. This has nothing to do with Baha'u'llah's declaration to be a prophet unless Baha'u'llah is the abomination that makes desolate.
Also we can see that the Baha'is have again used the day for a year idea in this prophecy when the prophecy imo seems to be about the Temple in Jerusalem in the latter times and what is going to happen there and then over a literal 1290 day period. This same sort of thing happened when the temple was destroyed in 70AD and when Antiochus IV Epiphanes set up an abomination in the Temple, but that was not the time of the end (as Daniel 12:13 indicates it will).
So Baha'is just use the numbers in the prophecies and manipulate them to arrive at a conclusions they want, and of course they say that Baha'u'llah at the end of the age is a Prophet and has been given the power to understand the Book of Daniel which has been sealed until the time of the end.
Daniel 12:9 He said, “Go your way, Daniel, for the words are shut up and sealed until the time of the end."
But when we actually check out what they say about Bible prophecies etc, we see that it makes no sense at all, even if to Baha'is it is obviously all true because it comes from Baha'i. (Whether Baha'u'llah actually worked all these prophecies out or not, I don't know, but it makes no difference)
It is interesting that the 1335 days of Daniel 12:12 might actually correspond to the end of the 2300 evening and morning time period in Daniel 8:14 when the sanctuary will be reconsecrated. imo

From this site: A New Understanding of the Perplexing Prophecies of Daniel

In other verses, Daniel also offered the number 1,290 to ponder:
And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.
Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.”
– Daniel 12:11-12.
There are 1,290 lunar years in the Islamic calendar from the date of Muhammad’s declaration of his station as a prophet of God in the year 613, to Baha’u’llah’s declaration of his station as a prophet of God in 1863.
Reverting to solar years, Daniel gives his final numerical prophecy and is then told that his mission on Earth is finished:
But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days.” – Daniel 12:13.
Prophetically, the 1,290 and the 1,335 days/years go together, the first logically following the second. The 1,335 solar years begin with the year 628, the year Muhammad signed a treaty with his enemies in Mecca that signified that recognized the Muslim community in Medina not only as a legitimate force, but also one to be respected and accorded contractual or diplomatic status.
The 1,335 solar years added to 628 equals 1,963 years, or the calendar year 1963, a momentous period in Baha’i history. That was the year when members of the world’s National Spiritual Assemblies cast their ballots to elect the first Universal House of Justice – the global administrative body of the Baha’i Faith. The declaration of Baha’u’llah in 1863 (the 1,290 years) was followed in 1963 (the 1,335 years) by completion of the three-tiered Baha’i administrative order at the local, national and international levels, devised by Baha’u’llah for the internal governance of the Baha’i Faith.

The key is the Bab gave his Message in AH1260 and Muhammad is foretold in both the Old and New Testaments, thus validation of the prophecy was using the current God given Calendar, in the age God chose as the "Day of God". Which is also supported by AD1844.

William Miller predicted 1844, not knowing it was also the year 1260. So many Christians embraced those prophecies as fulfilled in 1844, not even knowing of the Bab.

I do not need to argue this point, as the Given Messages fulfilled the prophecies, all I see happens when one argues against them, is that they are arguing with God.

Regards Tony
 

TransmutingSoul

One Planet, One People, Please!
Premium Member
What's important... There is a year when the abomination happened. There is no reason to count the 2300 evenings and mornings from the decree to rebuild Jerusalem. So, why do it? Unless it's the only way to get to the desired year, 1844.
Maybe ask William Miller, they were expecting the return of Christ. He got 1844 and was not a Baha'i.

Regards Tony
 
Last edited:

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
When I look at a quote from a Baha'i site below I see that the Baha'is think it is OK to go from lunar to solar years in their analysis of the prophecy. I guess this is because doing that makes the numbers fit the years they start and end at.
But the prophecy speaks about beginning when the daily sacrifice is taken away. This has nothing to do with Muhammad.
Then we see that the 1290 days ends when the abomination that makes desolate is set up. This has nothing to do with Baha'u'llah's declaration to be a prophet unless Baha'u'llah is the abomination that makes desolate.
Why do they go to Muhammad?
And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.
Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.”
– Daniel 12:11-12.
There are 1,290 lunar years in the Islamic calendar from the date of Muhammad’s declaration of his station as a prophet of God in the year 613, to Baha’u’llah’s declaration of his station as a prophet of God in 1863.
Why the year 613? And lunar years?
The 1,335 solar years begin with the year 628, the year Muhammad signed a treaty with his enemies in Mecca that signified that recognized the Muslim community in Medina not only as a legitimate force, but also one to be respected and accorded contractual or diplomatic status.
The 1,335 solar years added to 628 equals 1,963 years, or the calendar year 1963, a momentous period in Baha’i history. That was the year when members of the world’s National Spiritual Assemblies cast their ballots to elect the first Universal House of Justice
Then they jump to 628? And to solar years?

Come on Baha'is... Would type of interpreting prophecies by any other religion be acceptable to you?

But for most Baha'is... It has to be. If they didn't know about this until after they declared, then they've already committed themselves to believing everything the Baha'i Faith says is true. That is, except a few. But then how do they determine when the Baha'i Faith is true and when it's not?
 

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
That would be the apex of ungodliness. Taking the entire Spirit out of the Word.

Regards Tony
But isn't that what happened anyway with people applying the Scriptures? Doesn't Jesus say that the religious leaders took the "letter" of the law and not the "spirit" of the law?

A robot might be less vulnerable to corruption. But... I'm sure Baha'u'llah talked about AI in some prophecy and the problems that my arise. What did he say?
 

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
Here is the Key, posted below, CG, reverting to AI for ideas and responses is basically shirking ones God given responsibility, it is relying on a summary of other people's opinions, mixed with some truth.
Here's what AI said...

AI Overview
Learn more

A search engine primarily focuses on retrieving and ranking existing web pages based on keywords, while AI goes beyond simply finding information by utilizing machine learning to understand the context and intent behind a query, allowing for more nuanced responses, personalized results, and even the ability to generate new content based on the user's input; essentially, AI can "think" and adapt to situations while a search engine is primarily a tool for finding existing information.

Maybe not you, but I'm okay with time-saving shortcuts to finding information. If I thinks it's true, I'll put it out there, and then you can tell me why you think it's wrong. But it's the information, not how I found it.
 

TransmutingSoul

One Planet, One People, Please!
Premium Member
But isn't that what happened anyway with people applying the Scriptures? Doesn't Jesus say that the religious leaders took the "letter" of the law and not the "spirit" of the law?

A robot might be less vulnerable to corruption. But... I'm sure Baha'u'llah talked about AI in some prophecy and the problems that my arise. What did he say?
All the more why not to use AI, as it is based on many of those letters and not the Spirit.

AI is already corrupt, as it is men that feed it the data, not God.

It is in the writings that a world communication system will be devised, enabling instant communication across the globe, adding to the fact that the earth is but one country and mankind its citizens.

Regards Tony
 
Top