True and False Prophets - Just and Honest Determination

[Sumadji]

Yes. That is the line of thought. Thank you for understanding.

The "sort of code" is a law. The words in the OT are not speaking laws. The words in the OT are speaking according to the law. Jesus knew that and so it could seem he wasn't following OT said laws.

Imagine him telling the church that collecting silver and gold for their treasury of the lord is wrong. He tried to explain heavenly treasure is what the OT is saying. But that could mean no more silver and gold for the church.

"Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal.
But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal".

That verse in James we were looking at before is an example of speech that is correct according to the law. James was speaking of the treasury of the Lord OT verse. I know he could only say something like that by actually knowing the law. I tried to show you how his words are perfectly said.

He combined parts of different "laws" and spoke them in their right places so the actual law is still being said. Like Flesh is a perfectly acceptable substitute for Brass. The law didn't change.

Just like Jesus saying the bread is the flesh and the wine is the blood. Nothing has changed from the OT.

Bread - Oil - Wine
Flesh - Bone - Blood
Brass - Silver - Gold

Explaining the law saying "one word is a seemingly unrelated word" will sound like nonsense. People could interpret that as talking about some sort of magic.


The violence said in the OT is also according to the same law/code. I will show you an example in three verses about three things.

With lower places and higher places, we have swords, spears, and bows:
"Therefore set I in the lower places behind the wall, and on the higher places, I even set the people after their families with their swords, their spears, and their bows. Nehemiah".

Just like we have the sun, moon, and stars:
There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory. Corinthians

Listen carefully. This not violent nonsense. This combines both of the above into one. It is according to the law:
The sun and moon stood still in their habitation: at the light of thine arrows they went, and at the shining of thy glittering spear. Habakkuk

The sun is as arrows (bow), and the moon is as spear:

Moon - Star - Sun
Spear - Sword - Bow

According to these three verses the sword is as star. Can you understand that?

Thank you. However it doesn't work for me that one word means another word. Especially not that it always does, or usually does. To me the word means what it means in context, not something else altogether.

So we can just agree to disagree

Best wishes

 

[Muffled]

Then you have just offered that no Just and Honest Determination will be made on your part.

History shows that Jesus faced such wanted ignorance of the Truth, that Jesus had brought. The learned of the age offering the same type of rebuttal.

Regards Tony

I believe just and homest is always my policy. It is the word sound that makes the difference. Zeus may exist in literature but it isn't sound knowledge.

 

[Muffled]

Then you have just offered that no Just and Honest Determination will be made on your part.

History shows that Jesus faced such wanted ignorance of the Truth, that Jesus had brought. The learned of the age offering the same type of rebuttal.

Regards Tony

I believe just and homest is always my policy. It is the word sound that makes the difference. Zeus may exist in literature but it isn't sound knowledge.

That is already closing one's mind and it is not possible to undertake a just and honest determination with that mindset.

Regards Tony

I believe my mind is open to sound knowledge but why whould it be open to philosophies and fantasies?

 

[Muffled]

But Jesus very clearly states that he doesn't promote peace:

"Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword". Matthew 10:34

So what do you have against the killing of others in the name of Jesus?

Do you think Jesus is therefore not a messenger because he doesn't promote peace?

I believe if Jesus wanted someone killed He would say so but kiling someone because you think He might want it is the sin of presumption.

 

[WonderingWorrier]

Thank you. However it doesn't work for me that one word means another word. Especially not that it always does, or usually does. To me the word means what it means in context, not something else altogether.

So we can just agree to disagree

Best wishes

We don't disagree. I do agree with you. To me the word also means what it means in context. I have been trying to show you how to hear words, and how to hear complete sentences. Then we could talk context.

Listen. The Bread is the Flesh, and the Wine is the Blood, and the Oil is the Bones.

I will try to show you.

Bread, Oil, and Wine are as a set of three words (like the moon, star and sun verse, and also like the spear, sword, and bow verse examples).

"And wine that maketh glad the heart of man, and oil to make his face to shine, and bread which strengtheneth man's heart". Psalm

So the Bread is the Flesh and the Wine is the Blood. Now see Oil in Bones:
"As he clothed himself with cursing like as with his garment, so let it come into his bowels like water, and like oil into his bones". Psalm.

Bread - Oil - Wine
Flesh - Bone - Blood

Also Sword in Bones:
"As with a sword in my bones, mine enemies reproach me; while they say daily unto me, Where is thy God?" Psalm

Bread - Oil - Wine
Flesh - Bone - Blood
Spear - Sword - Bow

Therefore the Oil is as Sword:
"The words of his mouth were smoother than butter, but war was in his heart: his words were softer than oil, yet were they drawn swords." Psalm

Bread - Oil - Wine
Flesh - Bone - Blood
Spear - Sword - Bow

With the oil in bones and also the sword in bones it is true what is said, the oil is as sword. Does that make sense?

Bread - Oil - Wine
Flesh - Bone - Blood
Spear - Sword - Bow

The words in the above verses of Psalms are perfectly true. They are spoken in alignment according to the law.


Consider the Exodus:

The Exodus is as another set of three words. Desert, Wilderness, and Mountain.

For they were departed from Rephidim, and were come to the desert of Sinai, and had pitched in the wilderness; and there Israel camped before the mount. Exodus.

So that is why the Oil tree is in the Wilderness.
I will plant in the wilderness the cedar, the ****tah tree, and the myrtle, and the oil tree; I will set in the desert the fir tree, and the pine, and the box tree together: Isaiah.

And the sword is also in the wilderness.
We gat our bread with the peril of our lives because of the sword of the wilderness. Lamentations.

Oil and Sword are both in the Wilderness because Oil is as Sword remember. Does that make sense?

Bread - Oil - Wine
Flesh - Bone - Blood
Spear - Sword - Bow
Desert - Wilderness - Mountain

Now see here the Wilderness is as Eden:

For the Lord shall comfort Zion: he will comfort all her waste places; and he will make her wilderness like Eden, and her desert like the garden of the Lord; joy and gladness shall be found therein, thanksgiving, and the voice of melody.

A fire devoureth before them; and behind them a flame burneth: the land is as the garden of Eden before them, and behind them a desolate wilderness; yea, and nothing shall escape them. Joel

I know what seems like nonsense is actually speaking perfect sense. Consider the verses I am showing.

I am trying to show you the Sword is placed in Eden (Wilderness). Genesis.

Which is the sword that Jesus is talking about. He is talking about Eden.

I do understand that you could think I am just cherry picking. Because at first I was shrugging off the coincidences that I heard until I couldn't deny them and started writing them down. Please stay on track with me a bit further. I have been trying a long time for someone to get as far as you to understanding what I am saying. You made it sound so simple. I want to ask you for help. I want you to look in this direction with me a bit further to see if you can start teaching me how to hear other words. I want to follow your line of thought.

I want you to teach me the truth. Please help me.

 

[loverofhumanity]

I believe if Jesus wanted someone killed He would say so but kiling someone because you think He might want it is the sin of presumption.

In the Bible Hebrews 4:12 it clarifies the mention of sword.

For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword..

So Jesus came with the sword of the Word of God. Which, by its nature, separates the sheep from the goats.

 

[Sumadji]

We don't disagree. I do agree with you. To me the word also means what it means in context. I have been trying to show you how to hear words, and how to hear complete sentences. Then we could talk context.

Listen. The Bread is the Flesh, and the Wine is the Blood, and the Oil is the Bones.

I will try to show you.

Bread, Oil, and Wine are as a set of three words (like the moon, star and sun verse, and also like the spear, sword, and bow verse examples).

"And wine that maketh glad the heart of man, and oil to make his face to shine, and bread which strengtheneth man's heart". Psalm

So the Bread is the Flesh and the Wine is the Blood. Now see Oil in Bones:
"As he clothed himself with cursing like as with his garment, so let it come into his bowels like water, and like oil into his bones". Psalm.

Bread - Oil - Wine
Flesh - Bone - Blood

Also Sword in Bones:
"As with a sword in my bones, mine enemies reproach me; while they say daily unto me, Where is thy God?" Psalm

Bread - Oil - Wine
Flesh - Bone - Blood
Spear - Sword - Bow

Therefore the Oil is as Sword:
"The words of his mouth were smoother than butter, but war was in his heart: his words were softer than oil, yet were they drawn swords." Psalm

Bread - Oil - Wine
Flesh - Bone - Blood
Spear - Sword - Bow

With the oil in bones and also the sword in bones it is true what is said, the oil is as sword. Does that make sense?

Bread - Oil - Wine
Flesh - Bone - Blood
Spear - Sword - Bow

The words in the above verses of Psalms are perfectly true. They are spoken in alignment according to the law.


Consider the Exodus:

The Exodus is as another set of three words. Desert, Wilderness, and Mountain.

For they were departed from Rephidim, and were come to the desert of Sinai, and had pitched in the wilderness; and there Israel camped before the mount. Exodus.

So that is why the Oil tree is in the Wilderness.
I will plant in the wilderness the cedar, the ****tah tree, and the myrtle, and the oil tree; I will set in the desert the fir tree, and the pine, and the box tree together: Isaiah.

And the sword is also in the wilderness.
We gat our bread with the peril of our lives because of the sword of the wilderness. Lamentations.

Oil and Sword are both in the Wilderness because Oil is as Sword remember. Does that make sense?

Bread - Oil - Wine
Flesh - Bone - Blood
Spear - Sword - Bow
Desert - Wilderness - Mountain

Now see here the Wilderness is as Eden:

For the Lord shall comfort Zion: he will comfort all her waste places; and he will make her wilderness like Eden, and her desert like the garden of the Lord; joy and gladness shall be found therein, thanksgiving, and the voice of melody.

A fire devoureth before them; and behind them a flame burneth: the land is as the garden of Eden before them, and behind them a desolate wilderness; yea, and nothing shall escape them. Joel

I know what seems like nonsense is actually speaking perfect sense. Consider the verses I am showing.

I am trying to show you the Sword is placed in Eden (Wilderness). Genesis.

Which is the sword that Jesus is talking about. He is talking about Eden.

I do understand that you could think I am just cherry picking. Because at first I was shrugging off the coincidences that I heard until I couldn't deny them and started writing them down. Please stay on track with me a bit further. I have been trying a long time for someone to get as far as you to understanding what I am saying. You made it sound so simple. I want to ask you for help. I want you to look in this direction with me a bit further to see if you can start teaching me how to hear other words. I want to follow your line of thought.

I want you to teach me the truth. Please help me.

Oh wow, thank you. I am extremely flattered

I believe that God guides every person in an individual way. Your understanding of scripture is a path of wisdom and understanding for you.

But it doesn't work for me. I have a different metaphysical understanding. I tried to explain it here: #182 Building Bridges to the Unity of Humanity

If your understanding works for you as a sort of divination for guidance then it is valid for you. But it's not a path I want to go down in my own life.

Would you be interested in trying to write a sort of book or thesis?

Have you investigated the Kabalah? Also perhaps the Tarot?

 

[WonderingWorrier]

If your understanding works for you as a sort of divination for guidance then it is valid for you. But it's not a path I want to go down in my own life.

Would you be interested in trying to write a sort of book or thesis?

Have you investigated the Kabalah? Also perhaps the Tarot?

I am not interested in writing a book.

You went off track into sort of divination for guidance. Thats not what I am saying. I am talking about listening to the words with equal ears having a set standard of objective interpretation. I could follow our line of thought. If you can understand how the law works then you should be able to start telling me things that I already know and also teaching me things that I don't yet know. That is how you could teach me the truth. Science.

Can you see the sets of threes I show and their overlapping is according to a law allowing acceptable substitutes from other sets?

 

[WonderingWorrier]

In the Bible Hebrews 4:12 it clarifies the mention of sword.

For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword..

So Jesus came with the sword of the Word of God. Which, by its nature, separates the sheep from the goats.

I agree. Sword is a word of God and it does separate the sheep from the goats.

If you take what I was saying before:

We don't disagree. I do agree with you. To me the word also means what it means in context. I have been trying to show you how to hear words, and how to hear complete sentences. Then we could talk context.

Listen. The Bread is the Flesh, and the Wine is the Blood, and the Oil is the Bones.

I will try to show you.

Bread, Oil, and Wine are as a set of three words (like the moon, star and sun verse, and also like the spear, sword, and bow verse examples).

"And wine that maketh glad the heart of man, and oil to make his face to shine, and bread which strengtheneth man's heart". Psalm

So the Bread is the Flesh and the Wine is the Blood. Now see Oil in Bones:
"As he clothed himself with cursing like as with his garment, so let it come into his bowels like water, and like oil into his bones". Psalm.

Bread - Oil - Wine
Flesh - Bone - Blood

Also Sword in Bones:
"As with a sword in my bones, mine enemies reproach me; while they say daily unto me, Where is thy God?" Psalm

Bread - Oil - Wine
Flesh - Bone - Blood
Spear - Sword - Bow

Therefore the Oil is as Sword:
"The words of his mouth were smoother than butter, but war was in his heart: his words were softer than oil, yet were they drawn swords." Psalm

Bread - Oil - Wine
Flesh - Bone - Blood
Spear - Sword - Bow

With the oil in bones and also the sword in bones it is true what is said, the oil is as sword. Does that make sense?

Bread - Oil - Wine
Flesh - Bone - Blood
Spear - Sword - Bow

The words in the above verses of Psalms are perfectly true. They are spoken in alignment according to the law.


Consider the Exodus:

The Exodus is as another set of three words. Desert, Wilderness, and Mountain.

For they were departed from Rephidim, and were come to the desert of Sinai, and had pitched in the wilderness; and there Israel camped before the mount. Exodus.

So that is why the Oil tree is in the Wilderness.
I will plant in the wilderness the cedar, the ****tah tree, and the myrtle, and the oil tree; I will set in the desert the fir tree, and the pine, and the box tree together: Isaiah.

And the sword is also in the wilderness.
We gat our bread with the peril of our lives because of the sword of the wilderness. Lamentations.

Oil and Sword are both in the Wilderness because Oil is as Sword remember. Does that make sense?

Bread - Oil - Wine
Flesh - Bone - Blood
Spear - Sword - Bow
Desert - Wilderness - Mountain

Now see here the Wilderness is as Eden:

For the Lord shall comfort Zion: he will comfort all her waste places; and he will make her wilderness like Eden, and her desert like the garden of the Lord; joy and gladness shall be found therein, thanksgiving, and the voice of melody.

A fire devoureth before them; and behind them a flame burneth: the land is as the garden of Eden before them, and behind them a desolate wilderness; yea, and nothing shall escape them. Joel

I know what seems like nonsense is actually speaking perfect sense. Consider the verses I am showing.

I am trying to show you the Sword is placed in Eden (Wilderness). Genesis.

Which is the sword that Jesus is talking about. He is talking about Eden.

And you add a verse with another layer of three words:
And as for you, O my flock, thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I judge between cattle and cattle, between the rams and the he goats. Ezekiel.

Cattle, Goats, and Sheep:

The Goat goes into the Wilderness:
And the goat shall bear upon him all their iniquities unto a land not inhabited: and he shall let go the goat in the wilderness. Leviticus

Bread - Oil - Wine
Flesh - Bone - Blood
Spear - Sword - Bow
Desert - Wilderness - Mountain
Cattle - Goat - Sheep

Therefore the sword separates the goats from the sheep. Because the Goat is with Sword.

Just like Cattle is with Spear:
Rebuke the company of spearmen, the multitude of the bulls, with the calves of the people, till every one submit himself with pieces of silver: scatter thou the people that delight in war. Psalm.

Bread - Oil - Wine
Flesh - Bone - Blood
Spear - Sword - Bow
Desert - Wilderness - Mountain
Cattle - Goat - Sheep

 

[Sumadji]

I am not interested in writing a book.

You went off track into sort of divination for guidance. Thats not what I am saying. I am talking about listening to the words with equal ears having a set standard of objective interpretation. I could follow our line of thought. If you can understand how the law works then you should be able to start telling me things that I already know and also teaching me things that I don't yet know. That is how you could teach me the truth. Science.

Can you see the sets of threes I show and their overlapping is according to a law allowing acceptable substitutes from other sets?

You seem to be able to hold two opposing constructions in your mind and make them speak to you as some sort of paradox. It doesn't work for me. I think when Jesus spoke of a sword he meant what he intended it to mean in the context of the passage, not something else. He made his meaning quite clear.

I think when Hezekiah wrote of the workers rebuilding Jerusalem with swords and spears and bows on the wall to defend themselves, that was the intended meaning, not some sort of coded reference.

The Baha'i also have their idea of 'reading with new eyes and hearing with new ears' from the Bible to find meanings predicting Baha'u'llah. There are levels of meaning to the Bible, but it can also become a rabbit hole, imo

Edit
@WonderingWorrier
Excuse me I don't want to carry on this line of discussion

 

[WonderingWorrier]

I think when Hezekiah wrote of the workers rebuilding Jerusalem with swords and spears and bows on the wall to defend themselves, that was the intended meaning, not some sort of coded reference.

It is according to the code/law.
I can show you Jerusalem, and swords spears and bows. In Ezekiel he speaks of the city with 12 gates. Each gate is assigned a tribe and a direction. With what I have been telling you before I can just add a layer which shows their directions. To show you that I am talking according to Jerusalem.

North - West - East
Bread - Oil - Wine
Flesh - Bone - Blood
Spear - Sword - Bow
Desert - Wilderness - Mountain
Cattle - Goat - Sheep

See East is Bow.

Joseph is an East Gate. Ephraim is of the tribe of Joseph. Ephraim has bow.
The children of Ephraim, being armed, and carrying bows, turned back in the day of battle. Psalm.

Benjamin is also an East Gate. Benjamin has bow.
And Asa had an army of men that bare targets and spears, out of Judah three hundred thousand; and out of Benjamin, that bare shields and drew bows, two hundred and fourscore thousand: all these were mighty men of valour.

In the above verse Judah does not have bow. Judah has spear. Judah is a North Gate.

Ashur is a West Gate. Ashur is in Oil (The place of Sword)
And of Asher he said, Let Asher be blessed with children; let him be acceptable to his brethren, and let him dip his foot in oil. Deuteronomy.


So I am able to show you the spears, swords, and bows are spoken according to the gate directions of the city.

Everything I told you is according to the law of Jerusalem. In the Bible Jerusalem is called the city of truth.

Jerusalem is a city made of words. A heavenly city.

Edit
@WonderingWorrier
Excuse me I don't want to carry on this line of discussion

Understood.

 

[Sumadji]

It is according to the code/law.
I can show you Jerusalem, and swords spears and bows. In Ezekiel he speaks of the city with 12 gates. Each gate is assigned a tribe and a direction. With what I have been telling you before I can just add a layer which shows their directions. To show you that I am talking according to Jerusalem.

North - West - East
Bread - Oil - Wine
Flesh - Bone - Blood
Spear - Sword - Bow
Desert - Wilderness - Mountain
Cattle - Goat - Sheep

See East is Bow.

Joseph is an East Gate. Ephraim is of the tribe of Joseph. Ephraim has bow.
The children of Ephraim, being armed, and carrying bows, turned back in the day of battle. Psalm.

Benjamin is also an East Gate. Benjamin has bow.
And Asa had an army of men that bare targets and spears, out of Judah three hundred thousand; and out of Benjamin, that bare shields and drew bows, two hundred and fourscore thousand: all these were mighty men of valour.

In the above verse Judah does not have bow. Judah has spear. Judah is a North Gate.

Ashur is a West Gate. Ashur is in Oil (The place of Sword)
And of Asher he said, Let Asher be blessed with children; let him be acceptable to his brethren, and let him dip his foot in oil. Deuteronomy.


So I am able to show you the spears, swords, and bows are spoken according to the gate directions of the city.

Everything I told you is according to the law of Jerusalem. In the Bible Jerusalem is called the city of truth.

Jerusalem is a city made of words. A heavenly city.



Understood.

It's interesting. The life of Christ a physical demonstration of the spiritual reality. The Father revealed and made visible in the Son. The Spirit revealed visible in nature.

So the spiritual Jerusalem of Ezekiel and Revelation revealed visible in the physical Jerusalem of Hezekiah?

Yes, our ideas do seem to merge, although our 'mathematics' is different and independent

 

[TransmutingSoul]

So I am able to show you the spears, swords, and bows are spoken according to the gate directions of the city.

Everything I told you is according to the law of Jerusalem. In the Bible Jerusalem is called the city of truth.

This raises the question. Does this interpretation on scriptures show you Muhammad was a true Prophet?

The Message of Muhammad, Ali and the dispensation of Islam I see is in the Bible.

Regards Tony

 

[WonderingWorrier]

It's interesting. The life of Christ a physical demonstration of the spiritual reality. The Father revealed and made visible in the Son. The Spirit revealed visible in nature.

So the spiritual Jerusalem of Ezekiel and Revelation revealed visible in the physical Jerusalem of Hezekiah?

Yes, our ideas do seem to merge, although our 'mathematics' is different and independent

Regarding the city, I showed Asher with Oil (in place of Sword) being a West gate. And I showed Ephraim with Bow being of an East gate. I could also have shown that is the reason why Ephraim is associated with Wine in the Bible. Bow and Wine are both in the East side gates of the city.

North - West - East.
Bread - Oil - Wine
Spear - Sword - Bow

You might also find interesting earlier in the thread I touched on the subject of this city when I showed the wolf with the lamb, as Benjamin gate is with Joseph gate on the East.

Here:

Isaiah puts his wolf with the lamb.
The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them. Isaiah

Ezekiel also puts his wolf with the sheep. As he puts Benjamin with Joseph:
And at the east side four thousand and five hundred: and three gates; and one gate of Joseph, one gate of Benjamin, one gate of Dan. Ezekiel

Joseph is as the sheep:
Give ear, O Shepherd of Israel, thou that leadest Joseph like a flock; thou that dwellest between the cherubims, shine forth. Psalm

Benjamin is as the wolf:
Benjamin shall ravin as a wolf: in the morning he shall devour the prey, and at night he shall divide the spoil. Genesis.

So it is therefore true the wolf is with the lamb because the Benjamin and Joseph gates are together.

Isaiah also puts leopard with the kid goat, and lion with the calf. Again this is all according to the city.

North - West - East
Cattle - Goat - Sheep
Lion - Leopard - Wolf

The lion is with the calf because Judah is with Reuben in the North gates.

Reuben Cattle:
Now the children of Reuben and the children of Gad had a very great multitude of cattle: and when they saw the land of Jazer, and the land of Gilead, that, behold, the place was a place for cattle; Numbers.

Judah Lion:
And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof. Revelation

Therefore the wolf is with the lamb, and the lion is with the calf. Just like Isaiah said. The city of truth does confirm it.


Earlier I mentioned Judah with spear.

In the above verse Judah does not have bow. Judah has spear. Judah is a North Gate.

And here cattle with spear:

Just like Cattle is with Spear:
Rebuke the company of spearmen, the multitude of the bulls, with the calves of the people, till every one submit himself with pieces of silver: scatter thou the people that delight in war. Psalm.

So I can show Judah and Reuban both have spears. As the lion and the calf both have spears. In the North gates of the city.

North - West - East
Cattle - Goat - Sheep
Lion - Leopard - Wolf
Spear - Sword - Bow

 

[WonderingWorrier]

This raises the question. Does this interpretation on scriptures show you Muhammad was a true Prophet?

The Message of Muhammad, Ali and the dispensation of Islam I see is in the Bible.

Regards Tony

Yes it can show us.
And Yes Muhammad is a true Bible prophet. He proves himself in two ways. The first way is he is correctly trying to explain the law. But this doesn't prove he is a prophet. It shows he on the right track.

The second way is Muhammad can speak according to the law. This is what shows he is a prophet. Speaking according to the law can only be done by someone who understands the law. But if only having one or two lawful matches it could be just coincidence or could have been heard elsewhere and just being repeated.

I will show you some examples of the two ways he proves himself.

First way:

He knows there are signs/symbols in the twelve:
"Verily in Joseph and his brethren are signs (or symbols) for seekers (after Truth)".

"It is We Who have set out the zodiacal signs in the heavens, and made them fair-seeming to (all) beholders".

And he knows there are signs/symbols in the stories:
"There is, in their stories, instruction for men endued with understanding. It is not a tale invented, but a confirmation of what went before it,- a detailed exposition of all things, and a guide and a mercy to any such as believe".

"When Our Signs are rehearsed to them, they say: "We have heard this (before): if we wished, we could say (words) like these: these are nothing but tales of the ancients."



Second way:
We can measure his ability to speak according to the law.

Which sounds like foolish nonsense:
"Then the Messenger will say: "O my Lord! Truly my people took this Quran for just foolish nonsense."

I can use what I was explaining earlier to measure the nonsense Muhammad says.

North - West - East
Bread - Oil - Wine
Flesh - Bone - Blood
Spear - Sword - Bow
Desert - Wilderness - Mountain
Cattle - Goat - Sheep

Spear - Sword - Bow
Corn - Olive - Grape
Bread - Oil - Wine

Bread - Oil - Wine
Flesh - Bone - Blood
Brass - Silver - Gold

Moon - Star - Sun
Spear - Sword - Bow

We can listen to Muhammad: "And the mountains will be like wool"

Check:

North - West - East
Brass - Silver - Gold
Moon - Star - Sun
Bread - Oil - Wine
Corn - Olive - Grape
Cattle - Goat - Sheep
Desert - Wilderness - Mountain.

Correct.

We can listen to Muhammad:
"Allah is the Light of the heavens and the earth. The Parable of His Light is as if there were a Niche and within it a Lamp: the Lamp enclosed in Glass: the glass as it were a brilliant star: Lit from a blessed Tree, an Olive, neither of the east nor of the west, whose oil is well-nigh luminous, though fire scarce touched it: Light upon Light! Allah doth guide whom He will to His Light: Allah doth set forth Parables for men: and Allah doth know all things".

North - West - East
Brass - Silver - Gold
Moon - Star - Sun
Bread - Oil - Wine
Corn - Olive - Grape
Cattle - Goat - Sheep
Desert - Wilderness - Mountain.

Correct.

We can listen to Muhammad:
Many are the Jinns and men we have made for Hell: They have hearts wherewith they understand not, eyes wherewith they see not, and ears wherewith they hear not. They are like cattle,- nay more misguided: for they are heedless (of warning).

North - West - East
Brass - Silver - Gold
Moon - Star - Sun
Bread - Oil - Wine
Corn - Olive - Grape
Cattle - Goat - Sheep
Desert - Wilderness - Mountain.

Correct.

We can listen to Muhammad:
"Say, "The truth is from your Lord": Let him who will believe, and let him who will, reject (it): for the wrong-doers We have prepared a Fire whose (smoke and flames), like the walls and roof of a tent, will hem them in: if they implore relief they will be granted water like melted brass, that will scald their faces, how dreadful the drink! How uncomfortable a couch to recline on!".

Brass - Silver - Gold
Tent - House - Palace

Correct.

There are palaces in paradise. And there are tents in hell. Between them is the "house" of God.

"And (silver) doors to their houses, and thrones (of silver) on which they could recline".

Brass - Silver - Gold
Tent - House - Palace

Correct.

So we can clearly see Muhammad does speak according to the law. And what he says is in alignment with the prophets.



The Quran also has the same concept as the Bible regarding violence:

"Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not".

"The number of months in the sight of Allah is twelve (in a year)- so ordained by Him the day He created the heavens and the earth; of them four are sacred: that is the straight usage. So wrong not yourselves therein, and fight the Pagans all together as they fight you all together. But know that Allah is with those who restrain themselves".

Fighting signs/symbols are prescribed. They are equal to all the other signs/symbols prescribed.

Like what I have been trying to show with Biblical spears, swords, and bows. That they are signs/symbols which are equal to other nonviolent signs/symbols.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Yes it can show us.
And Yes Muhammad is a true Bible prophet. He proves himself in two ways. The first way is he is correctly trying to explain the law. But this doesn't prove he is a prophet. It shows he on the right track.

The second way is Muhammad can speak according to the law. This is what shows he is a prophet. Speaking according to the law can only be done by someone who understands the law. But if only having one or two lawful matches it could be just coincidence or could have been heard elsewhere and just being repeated.

I will show you some examples of the two ways he proves himself.

First way:

He knows there are signs/symbols in the twelve:
"Verily in Joseph and his brethren are signs (or symbols) for seekers (after Truth)".

"It is We Who have set out the zodiacal signs in the heavens, and made them fair-seeming to (all) beholders".

And he knows there are signs/symbols in the stories:
"There is, in their stories, instruction for men endued with understanding. It is not a tale invented, but a confirmation of what went before it,- a detailed exposition of all things, and a guide and a mercy to any such as believe".

"When Our Signs are rehearsed to them, they say: "We have heard this (before): if we wished, we could say (words) like these: these are nothing but tales of the ancients."



Second way:
We can measure his ability to speak according to the law.

Which sounds like foolish nonsense:
"Then the Messenger will say: "O my Lord! Truly my people took this Quran for just foolish nonsense."

I can use what I was explaining earlier to measure the nonsense Muhammad says.






We can listen to Muhammad: "And the mountains will be like wool"

Check:

North - West - East
Brass - Silver - Gold
Moon - Star - Sun
Bread - Oil - Wine
Corn - Olive - Grape
Cattle - Goat - Sheep
Desert - Wilderness - Mountain.

Correct.

We can listen to Muhammad:
"Allah is the Light of the heavens and the earth. The Parable of His Light is as if there were a Niche and within it a Lamp: the Lamp enclosed in Glass: the glass as it were a brilliant star: Lit from a blessed Tree, an Olive, neither of the east nor of the west, whose oil is well-nigh luminous, though fire scarce touched it: Light upon Light! Allah doth guide whom He will to His Light: Allah doth set forth Parables for men: and Allah doth know all things".

North - West - East
Brass - Silver - Gold
Moon - Star - Sun
Bread - Oil - Wine
Corn - Olive - Grape
Cattle - Goat - Sheep
Desert - Wilderness - Mountain.

Correct.

We can listen to Muhammad:
Many are the Jinns and men we have made for Hell: They have hearts wherewith they understand not, eyes wherewith they see not, and ears wherewith they hear not. They are like cattle,- nay more misguided: for they are heedless (of warning).

North - West - East
Brass - Silver - Gold
Moon - Star - Sun
Bread - Oil - Wine
Corn - Olive - Grape
Cattle - Goat - Sheep
Desert - Wilderness - Mountain.

Correct.

We can listen to Muhammad:
"Say, "The truth is from your Lord": Let him who will believe, and let him who will, reject (it): for the wrong-doers We have prepared a Fire whose (smoke and flames), like the walls and roof of a tent, will hem them in: if they implore relief they will be granted water like melted brass, that will scald their faces, how dreadful the drink! How uncomfortable a couch to recline on!".

Brass - Silver - Gold
Tent - House - Palace

Correct.

There are palaces in paradise. And there are tents in hell. Between them is the "house" of God.

"And (silver) doors to their houses, and thrones (of silver) on which they could recline".

Brass - Silver - Gold
Tent - House - Palace

Correct.

So we can clearly see Muhammad does speak according to the law. And what he says is in alignment with the prophets.



The Quran also has the same concept as the Bible regarding violence:

"Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not".

"The number of months in the sight of Allah is twelve (in a year)- so ordained by Him the day He created the heavens and the earth; of them four are sacred: that is the straight usage. So wrong not yourselves therein, and fight the Pagans all together as they fight you all together. But know that Allah is with those who restrain themselves".

Fighting signs/symbols are prescribed. They are equal to all the other signs/symbols prescribed.

Like what I have been trying to show with Biblical spears, swords, and bows. That they are signs/symbols which are equal to other nonviolent signs/symbols.

I am not able to see what you are seeing.

I would assume you could do the same thing for the Bab and Baha'u'llah, who have independent Messages.

I see the first consideration is that at the end of ages, the zodiac signs are doubled like in Revelation 4. No longer 12 Disciples or Imams, but 24 Elders.

Regards Tony

 

[WonderingWorrier]

I am not able to see what you are seeing.

Your honesty is appreciated Tony. Thank you. If you can't see what I was showing then you would not be able to hear what I am saying. I think I know what the communication problem could be.

So what are you looking at when I show this:

We can listen to Muhammad: "And the mountains will be like wool"

Check:

North - West - East
Brass - Silver - Gold
Moon - Star - Sun
Bread - Oil - Wine
Corn - Olive - Grape
Cattle - Goat - Sheep
Desert - Wilderness - Mountain.

Correct.

Do you see the groups of three words horizontally? Can you also see the three groups of words vertically? You would need to be able to look both ways horizontal and vertical to hear what I am talking about.

I am trying to talk about unheard words. So I am trying to show something to help with hearing them. If you are not aware of the vertical I am showing then I will just sound like nonsense.


See these are as two different horizontal sets:

See here Cattle, Goat, and Sheep. It is a set of three words:
And as for you, O my flock, thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I judge between cattle and cattle, between the rams and the he goats. Ezekiel.

See here Desert, Wilderness, and Mountain. It is another set of three words.
For they were departed from Rephidim, and were come to the desert of Sinai, and had pitched in the wilderness; and there Israel camped before the mount. Exodus.


I will now try to show how the nonsense works. Vertically.

See Cattle is with Desert:
Also he built towers in the desert, and digged many wells: for he had much cattle, both in the low country, and in the plains: husbandmen also, and vine dressers in the mountains, and in Carmel: for he loved husbandry. Chronicles.

See Goat is with Wilderness:
And the goat shall bear upon him all their iniquities unto a land not inhabited: and he shall let go the goat in the wilderness. Leviticus

So Cattle is in alignment with Desert, and Goat is in alignment with Wilderness.

Look:

Cattle - Goat - Sheep
Desert - Wilderness - Mountain.

You can see the word Sheep is equal to the word Mountain. So the mountains are as wool. Muhammad is correct.



In the Cattle with Desert verse it also mentions vine dressers in the mountains. I will add another set of three words to show you why there is wine in the mountains:

And wine that maketh glad the heart of man, and oil to make his face to shine, and bread which strengtheneth man's heart. Psalm.


Cattle - Goat - Sheep
Desert - Wilderness - Mountain.
Bread - Oil - Wine

The word Wine is equal to the word Sheep, or the word Mountain. Because they are words that are in alignment with each other.

Can you see it (in bold)?

So would you now have a way of hearing in Revelation the verse with the wine being in the presence of the lamb? Through their alignment.

Can you now hear what I am talking about?

 

[WonderingWorrier]

I would assume you could do the same thing for the Bab and Baha'u'llah, who have independent Messages.

Any text can be tested according to this law that I am showing which provides an objective interpretation of hearing the words of prophets.

Because Baha'u'llah speaks of Bible and Quran verses and words and Jesus is mentioned by name 98 times throughout his writings he is not independent. He has included himself with their words.

Baha'u'llah spoke of the same Quran verse that we are now talking about.

"Will ye not recognize how the mountains have become like flocks of wool, how the people are sore vexed at the awful majesty of the Cause of God?". Baha'u'llah.

So can all Bahai clearly explain how the people are sore vexed at the awful majesty of the Cause of God? What exactly does that mean? And are they also able to explain exactly why that specifically means the mountains being as wool? Beyond any doubt? And are any muslims in agreement with Bahai on this explanation of that Quran verse? What is there to recognise?

Did Baha'u'llah explain the Quran verse, or not?



I know the two different words can be seen and heard equally. The word sheep is equal to the word mountain.

Cattle - Goat - Sheep
Desert - Wilderness - Mountain

The mountains are as wool/sheep. Muhammad is speaking the unheard words correctly. I listen to where he is saying and I know the word positioning is correct according to the law.


There is a very clear difference between vague nonsense and very specific nonsense.

 

[Muffled]

In the Bible Hebrews 4:12 it clarifies the mention of sword.

For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword..

So Jesus came with the sword of the Word of God. Which, by its nature, separates the sheep from the goats.

I believe the truth cuts out the falsehood.

 

[Muffled]

This raises the question. Does this interpretation on scriptures show you Muhammad was a true Prophet?

The Message of Muhammad, Ali and the dispensation of Islam I see is in the Bible.

Regards Tony

I believe Mohammed heard from a nangel and the angel was bringing the word of God. That is enough to make him a prophet of God.

I do not believe there is anything about Mohammed in the Bible.