True and False Prophets - Just and Honest Determination

[WonderingWorrier]

The Church has the prophetic message from God to share with the world. I don't need to identify any one in particular.

But if you deny a prophet you are denying the gospel message. If you can't identify prophets then you don't know what Jesus was talking about.

"Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word". John

"Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil". Matthew.


You could be considered as being a false Christian by having a belief in assumptions. Assumptions are deniable.

If you can't identify any other messengers then clearly you don't actually know what the message is.

 

[Brian2]

Muslims, LDS, Bahais, Ahmadiyyas and others have their own word of God. Why should they agree to what Bible or Jesus have said?
That is why I said 'get down from your high horse'.

Afaik Arab Christians call God Allah, which is just Arab for God.
Baha'is use the word for God that is used in any language. With Bahai's it is about who Baha'u'llah is and whether he fits Biblical prophecies of the return of Christ.
Ahmadiyyas? I don't know of them.
LDS use the same word for God afaik.
None of the above religions need to agree to what the Bible or Jesus have said and they don't agree with the Bible or what Jesus said.
I think post 191 is the first post you wrote to me on this topic. Maybe you think I am someone else.

 

[Brian2]

But if you deny a prophet you are denying the gospel message. If you can't identify prophets then you don't know what Jesus was talking about.

"Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word". John

"Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil". Matthew.


You could be considered as being a false Christian by having a belief in assumptions. Assumptions are deniable.

If you can't identify any other messengers then clearly you don't actually know what the message is.

Why do you think that anyone who identifies another prophet has identified a true prophet?

 

[Aupmanyav]

Afaik Arab Christians call God Allah, which is just Arab for God.
Baha'is use the word for God that is used in any language. With Bahai's it is about who Baha'u'llah is and whether he fits Biblical prophecies of the return of Christ.
Ahmadiyyas? I don't know of them.
LDS use the same word for God afaik.
None of the above religions need to agree to what the Bible or Jesus have said and they don't agree with the Bible or what Jesus said.
I think post 191 is the first post you wrote to me on this topic. May be you think I am someone else.

No. I was addressing your post that Muhammad and Bahaollah are false prophets. Now you say that since they accept God, it does not matter if they do not accept Bible or Jesus.
You have changed your stance and now you agree that they are not false prophets.

Your post #185: "Muhammad, the Bab and Baha'u'llah are false prophets because of their fruits, they deny the Bible, the Word of God, and cause their followers also to deny it."

 

[Brian2]

No. I was addressing your post that Muhammad and Bahaollah are false prophets. Now you say that since they accept God, it does not matter if they do not accept Bible or Jesus.
You have changed your stance and now you agree that they are not false prophets.

Your post #185: "Muhammad, the Bab and Baha'u'llah are false prophets because of their fruits, they deny the Bible, the Word of God, and cause their followers also to deny it."

I made no such statement that it did not matter if they do not accept the Bible or Jesus.
I have not changed my stance.
Show me what I said that makes you think that I have changed my stance.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Muhammad, the Bab and Baha'u'llah are false prophets because of their fruits, they deny the Bible, the Word of God, and cause their followers also to deny it.

How are the fruits of Muhammad, Bab and Bahaollah different from those of Jesus?
They are different from Christians. God spoke differently to them through different people.
What proof do you have that the message of Bible and Jesus is better than the other messages?

 

[WonderingWorrier]

Why do you think that anyone who identifies another prophet has identified a true prophet?

Anyone that can identify another prophet will have a reason for acceptance and that reason can be considered. Your ability to identify other true prophets is what will define your understanding of what the Bible is saying.

The Bible is a little library being a collection of writings of various authors. If someone is unable to identify any other prophets outside of the Bible cover then that shows they don't know what is being said inside the cover.

 

[CG Didymus]

Muhammad, the Bab and Baha'u'llah are false prophets because of their fruits, they deny the Bible, the Word of God, and cause their followers also to deny it.

Yes, according to what the Born Again Christians believe... based on the NT

Your statement is not true.

Yes, according to your Baha'i beliefs.

Muhammad denies that Jesus died for our sins, so he denies the gospel message.
Baha'u'llah did not fulfil any prophecies that the returned Christ is supposed to fulfil and so cannot be the returned Christ.
If the Bab points to Baha'u'llah then he also is a false prophet.

Definitely, they don't believe the gospel as believed by Born Again Christians.

I fully disagree, you are very very very (infinite very) wrong.

No, he's not. Only going by your Baha'i beliefs.

World is like what it is because people believed whatever trash these people said or wrote, starting from Moses and Zoroaster. All pretenders.

Yes, how do we know any of these ancient stories are true?

Your comments are not trustworthy or truthful.

As if Baha'is believe those stories are literally true. They don't. Baha'is make them "symbolically" true, which is essentially saying the stories, as written, are fiction.

You need to give evidence for what you say.Why should any one believe you when you cannot give any evidence for existence of your God, soul in humans or animals, and that a 19th century uneducated Iranian was chosen by your God to be his messenger.

And that's the problem. All they have is a belief. Yet, that "belief" becomes their truth. Whatever their religion says, that is what is true and real.

So, this new religion, the Baha'i Faith, is doing the same thing that all the others have done. "We have the truth. And you don't." Although, they try and act as if they accept all religions.

Except yours, they never have even pretended to accept what you believe as a legitimate religious belief.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

No, he's not. Only going by your Baha'i beliefs.

There is truth and there is error. If Baha'u'llah is the Promised One, (which He is), then he is wrong.

It does not need my belief to set that standard, as Baha'u'llah set the standard with proclaiming a Message guven by God.

Only a just and honest determination can find the truth to that claim.

Regards Tony

 

[Brian2]

How are the fruits of Muhammad, Bab and Bahaollah different from those of Jesus?
They are different from Christians. God spoke differently to them through different people.
What proof do you have that the message of Bible and Jesus is better than the other messages?

My perspective is that of someone who believes the Bible and that it is God's Word and that it is the truth.
Muhammad and Baha'u'llah and the Bab have no problem in claiming that the Bible is not the truth. In fact they build themselves up by claiming that the Bible is wrong in what it says and that what they say is correct.
From my pov and the Biblical pov they are false prophets.
You or anyone else can come along and disagree with that.
It's not a matter of proof, it is a matter of faith that the Bible is true.
However if you believe that, then the proof is there by comparing what the Bible says with what Muhammad and Baha'u'llah and the Bab etc have said.

 

[Brian2]

Anyone that can identify another prophet will have a reason for acceptance and that reason can be considered. Your ability to identify other true prophets is what will define your understanding of what the Bible is saying.

The Bible is a little library being a collection of writings of various authors. If someone is unable to identify any other prophets outside of the Bible cover then that shows they don't know what is being said inside the cover.

You have it back to front. It is what the Bible tells me which helps me to identify who is a true or false prophet.
If the Bible and Jesus say that Jesus died on a cross and rose again and then Muhammad says that Jesus did not die on a cross and rise again, I know that Muhammad is a false prophet.
If the Bible and Jesus say that Jesus will return in person, the same way that He ascended to heaven and then Baha'u'llah says that is wrong, I know that Baha'u'llah is a false prophet and a false Christ.
If you think Muhammad is a true prophet then you are believing that the Bible is not the truth.
If you think that Baha'u'llah is a true prophet then you are believing that the Bible is not the truth.

 

[Brian2]

Yes, according to what the Born Again Christians believe... based on the NT

I just go by what the Bible says and based on that Muhammad and the Bab and Baha'u'llah are false prophets.

 

[CG Didymus]

There is truth and there is error. If Baha'u'llah is the Promised One, (which He is), then he is wrong.

Which he is? Yes, in your opinion. And if Baha'u'llah is the promised one then he is wrong. But... what if Baha'u'llah is not the promised one? Then you're wrong.

Baha'u'llah set the standard with proclaiming a Message guven by God.

He only set the "standard" for Baha'is. But is the standard he set something that all people believe and agree to? No.

Only a just and honest determination can find the truth to that claim.

No. If a person is judging Baha'u'llah by a different standard, like those of the Born Again Christians, then he is not the promised one.

My perspective is that of someone who believes the Bible and that it is God's Word and that it is the truth.
Muhammad and Baha'u'llah and the Bab have no problem in claiming that the Bible is not the truth. In fact they build themselves up by claiming that the Bible is wrong in what it says and that what they say is correct.

And there's that standard. Born Again Christians have the Bible and the NT to go by to set their standard. And Baha'u'llah doesn't meet their standard.

So, do Baha'is accept and believe in the other religions or don't they? Especially the beliefs of Born Again Christians? And they don't, because those beliefs contradict the beliefs of the Baha'i Faith.

You have it back to front. It is what the Bible tells me which helps me to identify who is a true or false prophet.
If the Bible and Jesus say that Jesus died on a cross and rose again and then Muhammad says that Jesus did not die on a cross and rise again, I know that Muhammad is a false prophet.
If the Bible and Jesus say that Jesus will return in person, the same way that He ascended to heaven and then Baha'u'llah says that is wrong, I know that Baha'u'llah is a false prophet and a false Christ.
If you think Muhammad is a true prophet then you are believing that the Bible is not the truth.
If you think that Baha'u'llah is a true prophet then you are believing that the Bible is not the truth.

Yes. Baha'is believe all sorts of things that go against what the Bible and NT says. Just to remind them... The Baha'is believe that Ishmael, not Isaac, was taken to be sacrificed by Abraham. If that's true, then when did this supposed error make its way into the Hebrew Scriptures? Can the Baha'is show when it happened? No.

The Gospels have Jesus casting out demons and raising the dead. Baha'is don't believe in demons or Satan for that matter. So, are the Gospels wrong or are the Baha'is wrong? And can either one of them prove it? Then the big one... Baha'is say that Jesus didn't physically rise from the dead. Fine, but that makes the Gospels false. Is that what Baha'is believe? That the Gospels are false? No. They try and pretend that they believe in the Bible and the NT.

Baha'is can't have it both ways. Born Again Christians might be right, but then Baha'is are wrong. And if the Baha'is are right, then the Born Again Christians are wrong. Both are going by different beliefs, and to each... they are right and the other is wrong.

Neither can conclusively prove it, so why believe either one? Because that's how religions are. They force people to accept things they can't prove. And for all the "oneness" of religions talk the Baha'is do, what they really mean is... "Our religion and our beliefs are true. What any other religion says that doesn't agree with Baha'i beliefs is wrong."

At least Born Again Christians admit that upfront.

 

[ppp]

There is truth and there is error. If Baha'u'llah is the Promised One, (which He is), then he is wrong.

It does not need my belief to set that standard, as Baha'u'llah set the standard with proclaiming a Message guven by God.

Only a just and honest determination can find the truth to that claim.

Regards Tony

That is just your opinion. Your opinions are neither trustworthy or truthful.

 

[Brian2]

Which he is? Yes, in your opinion. And if Baha'u'llah is the promised one then he is wrong. But... what if Baha'u'llah is not the promised one? Then you're wrong.

He only set the "standard" for Baha'is. But is the standard he set something that all people believe and agree to? No.

It is God, through Bible prophecies, who has set the standard for the return of Christ. Baha'is say they agree with that standard, but Baha'u'lla fulfils none of the prophecies. It is worse than that, Baha'u'llah does the exact opposite of some of the prophecies. The Baha'i answer for this is that the Bible must be wrong.
Baha'u'llah does not fulfil God's standard for the return of Christ.
Baha'is believe Baha'u'llah and he tells them to believe him rather than the Bible.
The fruit of Baha'u'llah is to disregard the Bible.

 

[WonderingWorrier]

You have it back to front. It is what the Bible tells me which helps me to identify who is a true or false prophet.

No not back to front. Straight to the point. But you continue to only name false prophets and you still haven't identified a true prophet outside of the Bible like I asked.

Can you name another true prophet and explain your reason for the acceptance, or not?

 

[Trailblazer]

It is God, through Bible prophecies, who has set the standard for the return of Christ. Baha'is say they agree with that standard, but Baha'u'lla fulfils none of the prophecies. It is worse than that, Baha'u'llah does the exact opposite of some of the prophecies. The Baha'i answer for this is that the Bible must be wrong.

The Bible is not wrong. Baha'u'llah has fulfilled all the biblical prophecies for the return of Christ.

Thief in the Night by William Sears

https://bahai-library.com/pdf/s/sears_thief_night.pdf

1844: Convergence in Prophecy for Judaism, Christianity, Islam, and the Baha'i Faith

Amazon.com

The Coming of the Glory: How the Hebrew Scriptures Reveal the Plan of God

Amazon.com

 

[WonderingWorrier]

The Bible is not wrong. Baha'u'llah has fulfilled all the biblical prophecies for the return of Christ.

Thief in the Night by William Sears

https://bahai-library.com/pdf/s/sears_thief_night.pdf

1844: Convergence in Prophecy for Judaism, Christianity, Islam, and the Baha'i Faith

Amazon.com

The Coming of the Glory: How the Hebrew Scriptures Reveal the Plan of God

Amazon.com

All Bible prophecies were fulfilled the moment they were spoken.

That is why Jesus said that generation would not pass until all be fulfilled.

And he also said:
And he sighed deeply in his spirit, and saith, Why doth this generation seek after a sign? verily I say unto you, There shall no sign be given unto this generation. Mark.

 

[CG Didymus]

It is God, through Bible prophecies, who has set the standard for the return of Christ. Baha'is say they agree with that standard, but Baha'u'lla fulfils none of the prophecies. It is worse than that, Baha'u'llah does the exact opposite of some of the prophecies. The Baha'i answer for this is that the Bible must be wrong.
Baha'u'llah does not fulfil God's standard for the return of Christ.
Baha'is believe Baha'u'llah and he tells them to believe him rather than the Bible.
The fruit of Baha'u'llah is to disregard the Bible.

Of course they believe they are following the Bible. But to do that they have to find alternative ways to interpret the Bible.

Right from the start they make the Adam and Eve story symbolic. And they continue to do that with Noah and the Flood. Yet, they say that Adam and Noah were "manifestations" of God. They do this to support their belief in "progressive" revelation. So, the Baha'is believe in them, but they don't believe the Bible stories about them.

Then comes Ishmael... Here they don't make the story symbolic, they say the Bible is wrong. But for the Baha'is to be right, there had to be some grand conspiracy. All the rabbis, scribes and priests had to all of a sudden changed the story of Abraham taking his son to be sacrificed from Ishmael to Isaac. Now why would they do that if, in truth, it was Ishmael?

Or, much more likely, the Baha'is made the change to support the Quran over the Bible. And then they claim that their prophet is a descendant of Ishmael... as if that makes him special. And, as if they believe all those genealogical stories in the Bible. But the one about Ishmael they do.

Which shows that the Baha'is do believe in the Bible. They believe in the things they can use. But they can't and won't ever believe in any type of Christianity that takes the Bible too literally or has Jesus being the only way and the only Savior or has Jesus being God.

And that would be alright if they didn't then claim that all religions are one and that they all came from the same one true God. The only way that all the religions become "one" is if they all agree with what the Baha'i Faith says is true. And if those other religions don't agree with that, or you don't agree with that, then you and they are wrong. The Baha'i Faith becomes the one and only true way.

And if a Baha'i denies that, then let them tell us which other religion, as believed and practiced in the world today, is true in every way and with every detail.

 

[Brian2]

The Bible is not wrong. Baha'u'llah has fulfilled all the biblical prophecies for the return of Christ.

If Baha'u'llah has fulfilled all the prophecies for the return of Christ then you are actually saying that the Bible is wrong since the Bible has prophecies that Baha'u'llah has not fulfilled.
Point to a prophecy that has been fulfilled by Baha'u'llah.