Trump is losing the debate acting like a raving lunatic

[Copernicus]

We are now starting to see the post-debate effect on polls, and it looks like Harris got a significant boost in the Reuters/Ipsos poll:

Harris vs. Trump: Who is leading the polls?​

It also appears that Republican politicians in Congress, who are worried about their own local campaigns, have been unnerved by Trump's unhinged performance against Harris in the debate:

Congressional Republicans try to hide from Trump’s debate performance​

September 12, 2024 at 6:00 a.m. EDT​

​

Republicans tried to largely hide from former president Donald Trump’s debate performance Tuesday, mostly cheering him on or just avoiding the issue altogether.​

​

Speaking to reporters Wednesday, House Speaker Mike Johnson (R-La.) focused entirely on a failed government funding plan. What did he think of Trump’s debate performance, reporters asked him. Johnson walked away, into the House chamber.​

​

Across the Capitol, Sen. John Thune (R-S.D.), the No. 2 GOP leader, fell into the passive voice to avoid criticizing Trump when asked about the missed opportunity to define Vice President Kamala Harris.​

“Well, um, that job’s got to get done,” said Thune, who is asking colleagues to promote him to majority leader.​

​

Who should take up that task? Thune ducked into a closed luncheon for GOP senators without answering the question.​

​

That’s hardly a ringing endorsement from the two people who, if he won the presidency, Trump would rely on to advance his agenda on Capitol Hill...​

​

See the article for more details.

 

[metis]

Different fact checking sites. Do you agree with them or not? They are all verifiably false, can you give evidence to your claim that some of these things are true?

That's not what I asked for so why are you deflcting from what I asked? I told you that I heard there were three lies by Harris that was fact-checked by CNN, so why can't you cite where your source of 20 came from?

So, will you do it or just play more games?

On second thought, you've had plenty of opportunity to tell us where you got your list from but have refused to tell us, thus it's rather obvious that you're simply not willing to tell the truth.

 

[metis]

If you can afford it, but this will be paid mostly by those who can't.
Not to mention try to buy a TV or microwave or you name it that if not made in china, does not use significant Chinese components. Heck cars are up to ~10%

Essential items are food, water, and shelter, therefore one can often do less or eliminate that which they cannot realistically afford in other areas. It took my wife and I 10 years before we were able to save $1000, which we did in 1977.

Secondly, just for the record, I am not against outsourcing in most cases because pretty much all countries do it, so "What's good for the goose is good for the gander".

 

[Estro Felino]

The crappy thing is if we lived in a more just and fair society we would be paying more because the artificial cheapness of exploitation and backroom deals and subsidies that only benefit the rich would end. But we'd also be getting paid more than we do, rather than watching shiploads if cash get put out of bounds and perpetually reducing what is actively "in play" in the economy.

The French have guillotined so many people to live in a fairer and juster society.

 

[Pogo]

Essential items are food, water, and shelter, therefore one can often do less or eliminate that which they cannot realistically afford in other areas. It took my wife and I 10 years before we were able to save $1000, which we did in 1977.

Secondly, just for the record, I am not against outsourcing in most cases because pretty much all countries do it, so "What's good for the goose is good for the gander".

Sure, I'm not a profligate spender, but I had to replace my phone, I'm cheap, so I bought the 30$ smartphone made in China. My 12 year old computer became couldn't handle videos so I got a used Chromebox, made in China ~ 129$ and a chromebook to replace an old tablet that wouldn't run current software another 150, can't avoid it all and all those things would go up. tools to fix my car and bike, made in China or similar, Timing belt is Thailand.

I couldn't have replaced any of that with US made if I wanted to and I'm not buying stuff just to have it.

 

[metis]

Sure, I'm not a profligate spender, but I had to replace my phone, I'm cheap, so I bought the 30$ smartphone made in China. My 12 year old computer became couldn't handle videos so I got a used Chromebox, made in China ~ 129$ and a chromebook to replace an old tablet that wouldn't run current software another 150, can't avoid it all and all those things would go up. tools to fix my car and bike, made in China or similar, Timing belt is Thailand.

I couldn't have replaced any of that with US made if I wanted to and I'm not buying stuff just to have it.

Yes, I also have more than I need, but I also know there are almost always ways to cut back on spending when necessary.

 

[Spice]

"In effect" means no it is not.

Maybe, but that is not a national sales tax. A national sales tax is a tax on all products bought. Tariffs are not that. She should have said tariffs lead to higher prices on some goods. She didn't on purpose.

Why does Harris/Biden keep most of Trump's tariffs if she is against them?

Tariffs have their place. They are responsibility used to keep American made products competitive and eliminate, or at least greatly reduce, imports from undercutting our own manufacturing. They are also responsibly used to prevent monopolies of imported goods, again to keep prices competitive and quality reliable. But Trump’s straight 20% across the board and 60% on China's goods is not responsible management. That's attempted manipulation of our free market.

 

[Kathryn]

I'd bet you'd have to stop buying clothing.

I doubt it but we'll see. I generally buy clothing made in the good ol USA.

 

[Kathryn]

How about going through your home and looking at labels to see where they are made. Then try to find the equivalent actually made in America not just assembled in America.

Done that already.

 

[Copernicus]

FACT CHECK: Fact-Checking Harris’ Claim That Trump Wants To Impose A ‘National Sales Tax’

Check Your Fact

checkyourfact.com

In the context in which Harris said this, she was clear that she was talking about Trump's proposal to raise tariffs on foreign imports that had nothing to do with national security. The Biden administration did preserve the tariffs on computer chips, because its national policy was to protect the computer chip industry in the US from foreign dumping practices. That is different from imposing tariffs on products that are not manufactured in the US. To impose tariffs on general imports is, in effect, a national tax on the sale of such products to US consumers, who do not have alternative domestic products to replace them with. Trump doesn't call it a "sales tax", but that is its effect on consumers.

 

[Kathryn]

In the context in which Harris said this, she was clear that she was talking about Trump's proposal to raise tariffs on foreign imports that had nothing to do with national security. The Biden administration did preserve the tariffs on computer chips, because its national policy was to protect the computer chip industry in the US from foreign dumping practices. That is different from imposing tariffs on products that are not manufactured in the US. To impose tariffs on general imports is, in effect, a national tax on the sale of such products to US consumers, who do not have alternative domestic products to replace them with. Trump doesn't call it a "sales tax", but that is its effect on consumers.

She should have used the word "tariff" then rather than the term "National Sales Tax" which no moderator called her out on, I might add.

 

[Copernicus]

She should have used the word "tariff" then rather than the term "National Sales Tax" which no moderator called her out on, I might add.

That's because she did use the word "tariff" repeatedly. Did you not watch the debate? She made clear that Trump's "national sales tax" was his tariff proposal. Hence, there was no lie and no need for moderators to call her out on anything. You are just looking at a sound byte taken out of context and used to mislead you and others.

 

[sun rise]

It's an argument in favor of re-instating
the deductability of home property taxes
& interest paid.

I favor lower tax rates with no deductions for expenses.

I had a tab open on an earlier page - Since you favor no deductions for expenses, clearly you are against deductions for te expense of property taxes and interest paid.

 

[Kathryn]

That's because she did use the word "tariff" repeatedly. Did you not watch the debate? She made clear that Trump's "national sales tax" was his tariff proposal. Hence, there was no lie and no need for moderators to call her out on anything. You are just looking at a sound byte taken out of context and used to mislead you and others.

I watched the debate. Though even I knew when she was blatantly lying, I didn't see the moderators call her out even once.

 

[Revoltingest]

I had a tab open on an earlier page - Since you favor no deductions for expenses, clearly you are against deductions for te expense of property taxes and interest paid.

For personal use, yes.
I oppose that subsidy for ownership,
which is denied renters.

 

[Watchmen]

Curiously, no one arguing the “rich” should pay more has been able to tell me what percentage of the national tax revenue the top 10% should be responsible for.

 

[Kathryn]

Curiously, no one arguing the “rich” should pay more has been able to tell me what percentage of the national tax revenue the top 10% should be responsible for.

37 percent. Oh, wait....

 

[Watchmen]

37 percent. Oh, wait....

I’m not talking tax rate. I’m talking total income tax revenue. The top 10% contribute 76% of the income tax collected, yet people want them to pay more! Seems outrageous to me.

 

[sun rise]

I watched the debate. Though even I knew when she was blatantly lying, I didn't see the moderators call her out even once.

She is a typical politician. Compare what she said to the crazy unhinged lies from Trump which they checked him on. They let equivalent lies from him go unchecked as well.

 

[Copernicus]

I watched the debate. Though even I knew when she was blatantly lying, I didn't see the moderators call her out even once.

The point is that she was not lying on that point. She was framing Donald Trump's tariff proposal correctly as a sales tax on everyone. The reason she did that is that Trump has lied by claiming that foreigners pay the tariffs. They do not. Tariffs are passed on to consumers in the form of higher prices, just as sales taxes are. Technically, tariffs are taxes.

I know that you really want to frame this as a lie, and I'm pretty sure that you will continue to do so no matter what I say. However, it still needs to be pointed out that Harris was simply correcting misinformation that people have about who pays for tariffs--misinformation that Donald Trump spreads by lying about it.