Trump kicked off Colorado ballot

[Wandering Monk]

@Wandering Monk Still waiting.

The dissenters lost. Now it goes to SCOTUS. Due process!

Trump's attorneys have not filed suits alleging such.

 

[Watchmen]

The dissenters lost. Now it goes to SCOTUS. Due process!

Trump's attorneys have not filed suits alleging such.

That doesn’t answer the questions. Try again.

 

[Wandering Monk]

That doesn’t answer the questions. Try again.

What is the question again?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I'm with the crowd that says Trump was denied due process and was subjected to double jeopardy as he was already indicted for insurrection which the trial starts in March 2024 and cannot be tried elsewhere for the same crime.

Two separate processes, not double jeopardy.

Think of it kinda like a civil trial and a criminal trial: the family of a murder victim can sue the murderer for wrongful death. Usually, they wait until after the criminal conviction to make the civil trial easier, but there's no rule that says they have to wait.

... and sometimes (e.g. the OJ Simpson case), you can get a civil verdict that implies murder was committed even though the murderer was found not guilty in the criminal trial.

 

[Twilight Hue]

You know you’re twisting things and you’re leaving out due process.

That's an understatement.

Obviously people don't want to see it and really don't care about the Constitution or having Fair elections.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Two separate processes, not double jeopardy.

Think of it kinda like a civil trial and a criminal trial: the family of a murder victim can sue the murderer for wrongful death. Usually, they wait until after the criminal conviction to make the civil trial easier, but there's no rule that says they have to wait.

... and sometimes (e.g. the OJ Simpson case), you can get a civil verdict that implies murder was committed even though the murderer was found not guilty in the criminal trial.

Still you don't understand or just refuse to admit the reasons given and the charges itself, which is Insurrection.

So all I'm asking is show me where Insurrection is a non-criminal offense warranting a non criminal trial to remove a person from the ballot who in fact hasn't even been charged with said offense. At least not yet.

Here is what a civil trial is actually used for...

Understanding Civil Trials in the United States: A Comprehensive Overview ▷ Law - Rey Abogado

⚡Welcome to our informative article on Understanding Civil Trials in the United States: A Comprehensive Overview. Before we dive into the intricacies of ▷ Law

reyabogado.com

 

[Subduction Zone]

How many times do you have to be told you can't be convicted over the same crime, not to mention at the time of this posting , Trump is presently guilty of absolutely nothing, zero, nada, that would warrant removal from any political ballot?

It's just deploying a weaponized judicial system to get rid of political opponents by bastardizing the Constitution by the hive mind left.

That's what it is really all about.

Most certainly the Supreme Court of this nation will settle it one-way or another.

Oh wow! You still do not get it. This is not a conviction. It is not a criminal procedure.

What part of double jeopardy only applying to criminal procedures do you not understand?

And there were also legal precedents for this. People that were banned from government positions because of being involved with the Confederacy. No criminal convictions, but the 14th Amendment made it so that they could not hold office.

 

[Wandering Monk]

Oh wow! You still do not get it. This is not a conviction. It is not a criminal procedure.

What part of double jeopardy only applying to criminal procedures do you not understand?

And there were also legal precedents for this. People that were banned from government positions because of being involved with the Confederacy. No criminal convictions, but the 14th Amendment made it so that they could not hold office.

More recently there is this guy:

Couy Griffin first elected official barred from office for participating in Jan. 6 attack • Source New Mexico

Judge orders removal of Otero county commissioner and bans him from holding other elected positions ever again.

sourcenm.com

 

[Subduction Zone]

Then I'll reply for about the 10th time where you can demonstrate and show adequately that Insurrection, which is being cited by Colorado Court itself, is in effect actually a non-criminal offense that justifies such a trial.

Last I heard, insurrections are always criminal and felonies to boot.

So how does this 'non criminal' farce apply to insurrections?

I have no need to do so. You need to acknowledge when you have shown to be wrong to make demands.

 

[Subduction Zone]

That would be fine for internal State elections, but Federal elections require cooperation with all the states , and that would require a fair set of rules that all states can agree with and abide by.

We do have those rules. They are in the Constitution. It appears that you should be complaining about those stated not following the 14th Amendment.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Oh wow! You still do not get it. This is not a conviction. It is not a criminal procedure.

What part of double jeopardy only applying to criminal procedures do you not understand?

And there were also legal precedents for this. People that were banned from government positions because of being involved with the Confederacy. No criminal convictions, but the 14th Amendment made it so that they could not hold office.

And I don't disagree with that, aside from one small detail that is constantly and maybe intentionally being avoided and left out.

Trump has not been legally and formally declared an insurrectionist.

That will be determined at the March trial in a criminal court of law. Not at a civil trial in Colorado.

Even OJ Simpson, as an example, had to be declared a felon criminal first in a criminal trial before he could be prosecuted later in a civil trial afterwards.

You see the problem now?

 

[Subduction Zone]

Still you don't understand or just refuse to admit the reasons given and the charges itself, which is Insurrection.

So all I'm asking is show me where Insurrection is a non-criminal offense warranting a non criminal trial to remove a person from the ballot who in fact hasn't even been charged with said offense. At least not yet.

Here is what a civil trial is actually used for...

Understanding Civil Trials in the United States: A Comprehensive Overview ▷ Law - Rey Abogado

⚡Welcome to our informative article on Understanding Civil Trials in the United States: A Comprehensive Overview. Before we dive into the intricacies of ▷ Law

reyabogado.com

Do you know what a strawman argument is?

 

[Twilight Hue]

We do have those rules. They are in the Constitution. It appears that you should be complaining about those stated not following the 14th Amendment.

Which is Colorado not following the Constitution as it applies to Trump whom is a private citizen now.

 

[Subduction Zone]

And I don't disagree with that, aside from one small detail that is constantly and maybe intentionally being avoided and left out.

Trump has not been legally and formally declared an insurrectionist.

That will be determined at the March trial in a criminal court of law. Not at a civil trial in Colorado.

Even OJ Simpson, as an example, had to be declared a felon criminal first in a criminal trial before he could be prosecuted later in a civil trial afterwards.

You see the problem now?

And as you have been told countless times. He does not need to be. There were examples of this when the Amendment was first passed and there was a recent example that you seem to have ignored. You are making a demand for a nonexistent rule.

Part of the reason for this Amendment is that since people usually have to be convicted locally a guilty person may be let off on a trial. It has happened many times. Did you forget OJ who was found not guilty and still successfully sued for his criminal behavior. You are mixing courts without rhyme or reason.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Do you know what a strawman argument is?

Only for you and a few others it is. There is a number of people here already that actually understand what's going on.

I don't for the life of me understand why you can't see it unless you just don't want to.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Which is Colorado not following the Constitution as it applies to Trump whom is a private citizen now.

Wrong, that law Amendment very much applies to private citizens.

I think that you brain may have short circuited. You are not following the law or reasoning rationally.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Only for you and a few others it is. There is a number of people here already that actually understand what's going on.

I don't for the life of me understand why you can't see it unless you just don't want to.

This is what is called projection.

 

[Twilight Hue]

....... Did you forget OJ who was found not guilty and still successfully sued for his criminal behavior. You are mixing courts without rhyme or reason.

And that needs to be fixed.

The fact that this logic can now be applied to our supposedly 'secure and protected ' election system and can be used to remove political opponents willy nilly is absolutely shocking and appalling in this country.

But of course the hive mind Democrats don't really care about any of that. Bastardizing the Constitution and removing political opponents is the stock and trade of these people. Just another day at the office.

 

[McBell]

Nothing your saying in the entirety of this thread has made any sense whatsoever and it clearly shows. You've contradicted and ignored just about every expert out there.

ROTFLMAO
You mean every expert you hand picked to listen to because they said what you wanted to hear, right?

But yea, I'll accept whatever decision the Supreme Court makes which is likely going to be keeping Trump on the ballot, thus preserving the Integrity and legitimacy of the election system in the United States.

If not, I'm just going to grab some popcorn and watch candidates getting booted off state ballots across the country without due process while the left makes a mockery of the election system in this country as they continue on with their power grabs by eliminating any threat to their power and control over people.

The only way Trump will win the Presidency, if he even makes it onto the ballot, is if the Electoral College appoints him.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Still you don't understand or just refuse to admit the reasons given and the charges itself, which is Insurrection.

Sounds like we're talking past each other. It also sounds like you're operating with a boatload of assumptions that you think are obvious but that I'd probably consider just plain wrong.

So all I'm asking is show me where Insurrection is a non-criminal offense warranting a non criminal trial to remove a person from the ballot who in fact hasn't even been charged with said offense. At least not yet.

Insurrection is a crime. It also - provided the rest of the formula in the 14th Amendment is met - renders the person eligible for federal office.

Criminal penalties are dealt with through criminal law. Election consequences are dealt with through election law. These two processes run in parallel, independent of each other.

Here is what a civil trial is actually used for...

Understanding Civil Trials in the United States: A Comprehensive Overview ▷ Law - Rey Abogado

⚡Welcome to our informative article on Understanding Civil Trials in the United States: A Comprehensive Overview. Before we dive into the intricacies of ▷ Law

reyabogado.com

Dude: chill. I brought up civil lawsuits as an analogy to help you wrap your head around the issues here, because you seem to be struggling to understand.