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Trump ordered to pay nearly 355 million in NY fraud case.

Soandso

Soandso

ᛋᛏᚨᚾᛞ ᛋᚢᚱᛖ
Brickjectivity said:
Well isn't Trump supposed to be tried by a jury of his peers?
Click to expand...

Depends on the kind of case. Here is an article that covers the issue in a little more detail

www.cbsnews.com

Judge in Trump's New York fraud trial explains why there's no jury

Even if Trump had asked for a jury, the answer would have been "no," the judge said Wednesday.
www.cbsnews.com www.cbsnews.com

Engoron said the punishment being sought by the state is an "equitable" remedy, as opposed to a "legal" remedy.

A legal remedy is an award for damages, which can be determined by a jury. Earlier this year, a federal jury awarded the writer E. Jean Carroll $5 million in damages after finding Trump liable for sexual abuse and defamation. The damages were not an amount Trump took from her, but rather a sum the jury concluded might remedy the emotional, physical and reputational harm Trump had caused.

In the ongoing New York fraud case, the state is seeking $250 million in disgorgement, a kind of equitable remedy that is a clawback of ill-gotten gains — the amount of benefit that the state says Trump and the co-defendants personally received from alleged fraud. Authorities cannot ask a jury to make that kind of calculation.

the article continues, and I think this next part is the most interesting:

"That leaves it up to the judge," Engoron said.

Engoron earned the gratitude of one Trump lawyer who has insisted the lack of a jury was not due to an oversight.

"I would like to say thank you, your honor," said attorney Alina Habba, before turning to reporters in the gallery. "Press, did you hear that? I didn't forget to check the box."

So it would seem that Trump's lawyers themselves (or at least this one) didn't want a jury to be involved

Brickjectivity said:
Why isn't his jury made up of crooks?
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I'm confused by your sentence. There is no jury, and crooks aren't part of any equation here that I can see (outside of Trump)

Brickjectivity said:
Also you should see Rev's reply to my question.
Click to expand...

The one where he says "They get prosecuted too" in response? That's not too different from what I said. They'll get theirs, but for now this is Trump's time
 
Ebionite

Ebionite

Well-Known Member
Jayhawker Soule said:
:hugehug:
Click to expand...
Contra proferentem. Used in connection with the construction of written documents to the effect that an ambiguous provision is construed most strongly against the person who selected the language. U. S. v. Seckinger, 397 U.S. 203, 216, 90 S.Ct. 880, 25 L.Ed.2d 224.

Black's 5th edition.
 
F

F1fan

Veteran Member
Ebionite said:
Like I said, you have no clue.

From Black's dictionary of law:

Fraud. An intentional perversion of truth for the purpose of inducing another in reliance upon it to part with some valuable thing belonging to him or to surrender a legal right. A false representation of a matter ot" fact, whether by words or by conduct, by false or misleading allegations, or by concealment of that which should have been disclosed, which deceives and is intended to deceive another so that he shall act upon it to his legal injury. Any kind of artifice employed by one person to deceive another. Goldstein v. Equitable Life Assur. Soc. of U. S., 1 60 Misc. 364, 289 N.Y.S. 1064, 1067. A generic term, embracing all multifarious means which human ingenuity can devise, and which are resorted to by one individual to get advantage over another by false suggestions or by suppression of truth, and includes all surprise, trick, cunning, dissembling, and any unfair way by which another is cheated. Johnson v. McDonald, 1 70 Okl. 1 1 7, 39 P.2d 150. "Bad faith" and "fraud" are synonymous, and also synonyms of dishonesty. infidelity, faithlessness, perfidy, unfairness, etc.
Click to expand...
So what problem do you have with Trump being found committing fraud in numerous cases?
 
Revoltingest

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Ebionite said:
Contra proferentem. Used in connection with the construction of written documents to the effect that an ambiguous provision is construed most strongly against the person who selected the language. U. S. v. Seckinger, 397 U.S. 203, 216, 90 S.Ct. 880, 25 L.Ed.2d 224.

Black's 5th edition.
Click to expand...
What ambiguity in legislation is
working in favor of Trump?
 
Subduction Zone

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member

wellwisher said:
Take a survey of everyone involved in the prosecution, and see who donated to the DNC or who were appointments of DEI. No DNC appointee; entered for election or directly appointed via DEI would still have a job, if they helped Trump. The Left plays dirty and they will eat their own, if they do not hold the party line. This is easy math.

There is still the Appeal process, so no money will be exchanged, just yet. This timing appears to be connected to Biden family interviews for corruption and tax evasion, that are coming up in a few weeks. The Trump verdict could go away, if Trump calls off the dogs. I think Trump will let the cards ride for the appeal process, delay, and hope to run out the clock.

Interestingly, the logic of the Trump Business conviction, if applied to Government, could get Biden and his crew the boot and stuck with huge fines and not allow to do Government for years. Illegal Immigration, relative to laws on the books, has cheated the America people of $100's of billion of dollars in costs, way worse that what Trump is accused. A good legal strategy will be to apply this line of reasoning to the Biden administration which, based on the rigged injustice system, will get shut down. Then Trump can use that as a defense. This can be similar to how senile Joe Biden will not be tried for the classified documents, he had for years, in un-secure places. What good for gander.

The criminals in the State of Delaware, injustice system, recently used political bias and influence to renege on an Elon Musk payment deal, that had been in play for years, connected to his lead investment and R&D role in the electric car movement. He was the darling of the Left, until he bought Twitter and made their censorship harder. Musk was also starting to seem more biased toward the right. So the Criminals on the Left, before the election, called in favors and used the State of Delaware, to political punch him in his wallet. We now have at least one Banana Republic Lefty State and a Banana Republic Federal Government. This is not how Democracy works, if that is important to the Left. They may not even know what a Democracy is. That is not it. Democracy needs honest and integrity to work.

This will and is already is backfiring on the State of Delaware. Delaware "was' the best State for companies to incorporate due to Delaware being world known for being fair, loyal, objective, and business friendly. But now there is a business movement away from Delaware, due to the uncertainty and risk of blackmail, caused by the Political Left's Banana Republic Influence. If the Left wants Democracy more than just Trump payback, then this is not the way. This can only get worse, if not opposed, early.

NYC is already hemorrhaging business due to high taxes and the retro COVID work from home standard, that has a caused real estate problem in many large cities; companies are abandoning real estate. NYC, after Delaware, may be next in terms of business leaving, even faster, less the Banana Republic of NY, target you with their Banana Republic shakedown, to make up for their impending tax shortfalls. Florida, Texas and many other states are better places to go. This election interference by NYC and NY State, could kill NYC and/or turn it Red for restructuring; return to a trusted business environment.

The Left is so nervous about losing in 2024. Desperate times could kill NYC and other places as the months pass.
Click to expand...
You didn't answer my question and posted a load of ignorant nonsense instead. And yes, money will have to change hands. He can't appeal until he turns over those funds to the state, along with interest. If he wins he gets the money back. Now he could put up a bond. But I can't think of a company that would take that risk:

www.cnn.com

Does Trump have to pay the nearly $355 million judgment immediately? What we know

A judge has ordered former President Donald Trump and his companies to pay nearly $355 million in a ruling in the New York civil fraud case. Follow here for the latest live news updates.
www.cnn.com www.cnn.com
 
Revoltingest

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Trump will have to pay more than the judgement.
He'll face either a fire sale of properties, thereby
losing millions, & being liable for capital gains taxes,
or he'll have to pay millions for a surety bond.
This gets better & better.
 
Subduction Zone

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Ebionite said:
Like I said, you have no clue.

From Black's dictionary of law:

Fraud. An intentional perversion of truth for the purpose of inducing another in reliance upon it to part with some valuable thing belonging to him or to surrender a legal right. A false representation of a matter ot" fact, whether by words or by conduct, by false or misleading allegations, or by concealment of that which should have been disclosed, which deceives and is intended to deceive another so that he shall act upon it to his legal injury. Any kind of artifice employed by one person to deceive another. Goldstein v. Equitable Life Assur. Soc. of U. S., 1 60 Misc. 364, 289 N.Y.S. 1064, 1067. A generic term, embracing all multifarious means which human ingenuity can devise, and which are resorted to by one individual to get advantage over another by false suggestions or by suppression of truth, and includes all surprise, trick, cunning, dissembling, and any unfair way by which another is cheated. Johnson v. McDonald, 1 70 Okl. 1 1 7, 39 P.2d 150. "Bad faith" and "fraud" are synonymous, and also synonyms of dishonesty. infidelity, faithlessness, perfidy, unfairness, etc.
Click to expand...
Black's Law Dictionary is a dictionary. It is not the law. As a result it is often misused by amateurs. You should be quoting the statutes of New York State if you want to make a case.
 
Subduction Zone

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Ebionite said:
Contra proferentem. Used in connection with the construction of written documents to the effect that an ambiguous provision is construed most strongly against the person who selected the language. U. S. v. Seckinger, 397 U.S. 203, 216, 90 S.Ct. 880, 25 L.Ed.2d 224.

Black's 5th edition.
Click to expand...
Once again, that is a dictionary. It is not the law. It is often used by lawmakers when they craft a new law. It is used by students that want to become attorneys in understanding general legal principals. It may help a lawyer to find legal precedent, but the dictionary itself has no legal authority:

ralblaw.com

How To Use Black's Law Dictionary - Is It Useful | RALB Law

How To Use Black's Law Dictionary - Is It Useful | Henry Campbell Black's Black's Law Dictionary is a well-known authority on American law.
ralblaw.com ralblaw.com
 
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