Trump's Racism...Is that All it is?

[Twilight Hue]

It's not those words. It's what he says about the people and immigrants.
I also find it troubling that y'all keep forgetting this.
Tom

So what exactly is the quote then alleged by Trump?

I've been finding so many variations of the quote, I don't even know which one it actually is.

 

[columbus]

So what exactly is the quote then alleged by Trump?

I've been finding so many variations of the quote, I don't even know which one it actually is.

I don't know and don't much care. If it were an unusual faux pas, out of his normal pattern, I wouldn't care at all.

But it's not. He has been blurting out similar crap since his campaign first got started. It's an embarrasment to us decent folks.
Tom

 

[suncowiam]

It's probably because I'm having trouble wondering why in hell the terms, "immigrant" and "people" are considered racist remarks by Trump.

******* Is an entirely appropriate term for Haiti as a country itself. Its it's leaders who are to blame for that designation. Not it's people.

Even so, it's still an alleged statement. It's not like it was recorded or anything for the world to see and hear what actually was said.

****hole is never an allowable term.

I can use that as a remark for people living inpoverty in the US. It does not properly describe why these people live in poverty. It does not add to the progress of solving the true issues at hand.

 

[Sunstone]

Trump seems more so a believer in racial stereotypes. Those beliefs shape both his business and social decisions.

How else is personal racism (as opposed to systemic racism) to be defined. You seem to be saying,"Let's not call Trump a racist, even though he walks, talks, and quacks like a racist".

 

[Sunstone]

Given the history of Vox, I can pretty much disregard most if not all it publishes.

Never met a fact you didn't think you had the option to accept or not accept, eh?

 

[Revoltingest]

.....us decent folks.
Tom

Hah!

 

[suncowiam]

I will say this, there should be a level of decorum with a person who is the President of the United States. Trump lacks that finesse, but I don't think he deserves to be vilified in the manner that he is either.

I feel for people who want to get out of a bad situation, I really do, and I think there are times where we should and ought to take people in under extreme circumstances. But it has to be done through legal channels, and to the letter of the law.

I understand people want to run away from a bad situation, it's only normal. But don't you think there has to come a time where the problematic country itself needs to be addressed to stem the outflow of people?

Maybe it's time for a regime change in Haiti.

Well, since you changed your tune, I can agree with this more than the previous response.

Trump might not be the leader of Haiti but he carries an enormous responsibility as a global leader. Like it or not, US is a leader of nations and US, IMO, plays a big brother role in the global community.

Haiti should change itself for the better but it will need help not specifically in money or resources, which it does need, but in terms of processes like government and education. Hatians can learn to emulate the success of great nations with the help from successful nations. To let Haiti evolve on its own will result with more illegal immigration. Simply put, we have to teach other nations how to be more independent.

 

[Stanyon]

Never met a fact you didn't think you had the option to accept or not accept, eh?

if Vox reported a story about Trump saving a child from a burning home but couldn't save the dog I'd imagine the headline would read "Trump let's families dog die in home fire"

 

[Curious George]

How else is personal racism (as opposed to systemic racism) to be defined. You seem to be saying,"Trump is not a racist, but he's a racist".

I think I cleared this up later, but I will try again in case it wasn't sufficient. Firstly, judging someone else's level of racism can be hard. We have overt acts, covert acts, and subconscious reactions. All of these are indicative of beliefs. We certainly are not privy to the information regarding all or even most any persons actions. The next issue we face is that calling someone a racist is much like calling them a liar. If someone has lied on occasion are they in the same category with a person who lies on a regular basis? If they lie about little things but are honest regarding important things are they equally classed liars?

We can take a very black and white view of things or we can acknowledge that there are shades of gray as well. Again I am not trying to excuse any racist behaviors. I am however differentiating between someone whose core beliefs are shaped by racism vs someone who has some peripheral racist beliefs.

With little question, we can say that Trump has some peripheral racist beliefs. Unfortunately, so do many in the United States. That so many relate to these is more worrisome to me. That such beliefs which are not presidential are forgiven is the real sign of a problem.

The sad truth is Trump is a racist in the same fashion many Americans are racists. It is a worldview that largely disregards race but at the same time doesn't hesitate pull from these peripheral racist notions to draw support, vilify an opposing party, or to feel safer.

While such peripheral racism is by no means fair, or proper or presidential, it is not the same type of racist as David Duke or Elijah Muhammad.

 

[Rational Agnostic]

Donald Trump’s long history of racism, from the 1970s to 2018

Given his history, I think it's pretty conclusive that Trump is a racist, but do you think he's also a White Supremacist? Why or why not?

I'm not a fan of Trump at all, but: First off, many of the things on the list are not racist at all. If Trump expresses negative opinions about other countries or immigrants from those countries, he is not *necessarily* being racist. Xenophobic, likely, but that is a separate issue. Also, if he believes (accurately, IMO) that Islam is a violent, hateful religion, he is also not being a "racist," since Islam is of course not a race, it is a religion, made up of many different races, and he has not expressed negative views about Muslims as individuals, only the religion of Islam as a whole. Additionally, erroneously believing that black men are guilty of a crime does not make one a racist against African Americans anymore than erroneously believing that white men are guilty of a crime makes one a racist against Caucasians. Who is to say that the color of their skin had any bearing on his opinion in that case? Also, criticizing Barack Obama does not make one a racist, just because he happens to be black. The other allegations of "racism" against Trump come primarily from anecdotes, and may or may not be reliable. Again, I'm not a fan of Trump and am not trying to argue that he is not a racist. I'm just trying to play devil's advocate here because I think it is important to not jump to conclusions too quickly on any issue.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

It's probably because I'm having trouble wondering why in hell the terms, "immigrant" and "people" are considered racist remarks by Trump.

******* Is an entirely appropriate term for Haiti as a country itself. Its it's leaders who are to blame for that designation. Not it's people.

Even so, it's still an alleged statement. It's not like it was recorded or anything for the world to see and hear what actually was said.

Yet his logic is 'country is a ****hole' therefore 'don't let their people in.' With an addition of 'let more people from countries like Norway or Asian countries instead'.
He's judging the quality of the person based on their background, in 'Brown' countries, only. Not European or Asian countries.

The only people denying it are Trump and two republicans. Two republicans who changed from 'I don't recall what he said' to 'he didn't say that' over the week. And one republican who is calling out that bull, saying 'I remember what he said just fine.'

 

[columbus]

if Vox reported a story about Trump saving a child from a burning home but couldn't save the dog I'd imagine the headline would read "Trump let's families dog die in home fire"

At least we Trump detractors don't have to make up things like that.

It's like when Saturday Night Live, and Tina Fey, delivered Sarah Palin's quotes word for word. They didn't have to make stuff up, they just delivered what she said to her Teaparty base to a broader audience.
Same with Trump.

Nobody needs to quote mine. Paraphrase. Misquote. All we have to do is tell it like it is!
Tom

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Donald Trump’s long history of racism, from the 1970s to 2018

Given his history, I think it's pretty conclusive that Trump is a racist, but do you think he's also a White Supremacist? Why or why not?

I'm sure Drumpsters will deny this as "fake news"

 

[ImmortalFlame]

It's probably because I'm having trouble wondering why in hell the terms, "immigrant" and "people" are considered racist remarks by Trump.

It isn't. It's the "people from ****hole countries" part.

Again, I find your pathological need to evade this quite troubling.

******* Is an entirely appropriate term for Haiti as a country itself. Its it's leaders who are to blame for that designation. Not it's people.

Once again, Trump asked why America should be taking in PEOPLE FROM "****hole countries" - that is a disparagement BOTH of the country AND its people. I'm getting tired of pointing this out.

Even so, it's still an alleged statement. It's not like it was recorded or anything for the world to see and hear what actually was said.

And yet you seem to have no problem with him allegedly saying it, which is extremely disturbing.

 

[Twilight Hue]

It isn't. It's the "people from ****hole countries" part.

Again, I find your pathological need to evade this quite troubling.


Once again, Trump asked why America should be taking in PEOPLE FROM "****hole countries" - that is a disparagement BOTH of the country AND its people. I'm getting tired of pointing this out.


And yet you seem to have no problem with him allegedly saying it, which is extremely disturbing.

No Trump is disparaging its leadership, not the people. He called them immigrants or people depending upon how you read the quote. Then he allegedly said ******** country. That sounds like a country's leadership to me given the abysmal and miserable state that Haiti is in.

I find the fact in the way that you are reading into this whole thing, effectively shows your extreme bias and willingness to twist words to mean something they're really not.

Yeah you hate Trump. We all get that.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

No Trump is disparaging its leadership, not the people.

No, he didn't. He was specifically referring to immigrants coming to America from Haiti. I'm pretty sure Haiti's leadership isn't immigrating.

He called them immigrants or people depending upon how you read the quote.

Because immigrants and people are ENTIRELY different things?

Then he allegedly said ******** country. That sounds like a country's leadership to me given the abysmal and miserable state that Haiti is in.

I'm getting increasingly tired of explaining this to you:

He allegedly asked why America was "taking in PEOPLE from these ****hole countries". The implication being that these PEOPLE are less worthy of taking into America BECAUSE of their country of origin. It is a disparagement of the PEOPLE, not JUST THE COUNTRY.

This is basic logic, NM.

I find the fact in the way that you are reading into this whole thing, effectively shows your extreme bias and willingness to twist words to mean something they're really not.

... Says the guy who is saying "No, Trump meant the leadership" or "No, Trump meant ILLEGAL immigrants" or "No, Trump only meant the COUNTRY no the PEOPLE".

No twisting of words necessary on my part. You're the one responsible for that.

Yeah you hate Trump. We all get that.

And you're completely in love with him, we get that.

 

[Twilight Hue]

No, he didn't. He was specifically referring to immigrants coming to America from Haiti. I'm pretty sure Haiti's leadership isn't immigrating.


Because immigrants and people are ENTIRELY different things?


I'm getting increasingly tired of explaining this to you:

He allegedly asked why America was "taking in PEOPLE from these ****hole countries". The implication being that these PEOPLE are less worthy of taking into America BECAUSE of their country of origin. It is a disparagement of the PEOPLE, not JUST THE COUNTRY.

This is basic logic, NM.


... Says the guy who is saying "No, Trump meant the leadership" or "No, Trump meant ILLEGAL immigrants" or "No, Trump only meant the COUNTRY no the PEOPLE".

No twisting of words necessary on my part. You're the one responsible for that.


And you're completely in love with him, we get that.

No. The implications are directed at ******** countries. COUNTRIES.

He didn't say ******** people PEOPLE now did he?

Man you just don't get it, or more likely just don't want to hear it that way because you're so freaking biased that anything or anything Trump does is either going to be racist or evil in some way or fashion.

You can get tired all you want, it doesn't phase me sunshine. Just keep spinning it the way you're spinning things and blowing what was said all out of proportion.

Assuming it was said in the first place in the way it's being put out.

It's pretty typical behavior on the left, and I don't expect it's going to subside anytime soon.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

No. The implications are directed at ******** countries. COUNTRIES.

Once again, "Why are we taking in people from ****hole countries" does not purely denigrate the country, but its people.

Why don't you understand this? If I was an employer looking at your CV, read your place of birth, and denied you the job because "Why should I be hiring people from a ****hole country", that is a denigration of YOU as a person because I am saying that the country you come from makes you unworthy of my employment, i.e: your country of origin reflects negatively on my judgement of you as a person.

He didn't say ******** people PEOPLE now did he?

He asked why America should be accepting immigrants "from ****hole countries", implying their nationality indicates their worth.

This is about the tenth time I've explained this. What is difficult for you to understand?

Man you just don't get it, or more likely just don't want to hear it that way because you're so freaking biased that anything or anything Trump does is either going to be racist or evil in some way or fashion.

When in doubt, cry conspiracy.

Sorry, no delusional attitude here. Trump's words are as clear as day, no matter how you desperately try to twist them. The fact that you've blatantly changed what Trump meant three or four times already proves that.

You can get tired all you want, it doesn't phase me sunshine. Just keep spinning it the way you're spinning things and blowing what was said all out of proportion.

No spin necessary.

Assuming it was said in the first place in the way it's being put out.

Indeed, I shall assume that.

It's pretty typical behavior on the left, and I don't expect it's going to subside anytime soon.

Especially not while people like you keep desperately denying reality to protect your sacred deity and your absolute faith in Trump's infinite righteousness.

 

[Skwim]

.​

 

[Twilight Hue]

Once again, "Why are we taking in people from ****hole countries" does not purely denigrate the country, but its people.

Why don't you understand this? If I was an employer looking at your CV, read your place of birth, and denied you the job because "Why should I be hiring people from a ****hole country", that is a denigration of YOU as a person because I am saying that the country you come from makes you unworthy of my employment, i.e: your country of origin reflects negatively on my judgement of you as a person.


He asked why America should be accepting immigrants "from ****hole countries", implying their nationality indicates their worth.

This is about the tenth time I've explained this. What is difficult for you to understand?


When in doubt, cry conspiracy.

Sorry, no delusional attitude here. Trump's words are as clear as day, no matter how you desperately try to twist them. The fact that you've blatantly changed what Trump meant three or four times already proves that.


No spin necessary.


Indeed, I shall assume that.


Especially not while people like you keep desperately denying reality to protect your sacred deity and your absolute faith in Trump's infinite righteousness.

If the people were actually citizens I would agree with you. They're clearly not, they are just temporarily under protection with full knowledge that protections can be rescinded which is what happened.

This whole thing actually was/is an immigration story turned on its side into a racist story by politically left people who obviously hate Trump and saw an opportunity for spin.

This type of political game is played all the time, and it's certainly not hard to see it here.