Truth: either God exists or He don't.

[Polymath257]

We just don't find any Muslim noble prize winners in modern history or any great scientists or any great discoveries in the Islamic world. All of the greatest scientists and discoveries were done by none other than the Jews.

Al Haytham.

The Jews gave us world peace since the end of WW2 with the bombing of Japan. If the Jewish scientist didn't discover atomic energy, the Japanese and Germans would be ruling the world.

Was it their Judaism that did it or the fact that they were scientists?

Our pastor teaches us that Islam bought nothing but bloodshed and hatred into the world. The UAE used Christian science to develop their space program, they simply used oil money to by our technology so no credit due there.

Well, your pastor is wrong about that. Islam, just like Christianity, has brought a LOT of bloodshed, that is certainly true. But they have both great cultural achievements to their credit. The recent problems in the Islamic world are due to the extremists, just like the problems in Europe for ages were the Christian extremists.

Religious extremism *in any guise* is a problem. ANY time religious views are seen as more important than the facts, there will be problems. And that is whether those extremists are Moslem, Christian, Jewish, Buddhist, or Hindu.

Ultimately, the problem with religious faith is exactly that it is *faith*. The extremists will *always* take that faith as reason to deny reality and to claim those who disagree deserve death.

 

[Polymath257]

One is Mary’s lineage, the other is Joseph’s

Nope. Read the text itself. Both are for Joseph.

 

[Polymath257]

You have simply confused the Pagan Roman Catholicism with Christianity. We know the Vatican didn't want ordinary people educated and informed, as they relied on people's ignorance to make money. Educated people wouldn't hand over their hard earned money for some guy in a robe to forgive them of their sins and bail their beloved departed from purgatory.
All of the great scientists were either Jews or Christians we don't find any Muslims on the list in the last 1500 years

Al Haytham. Wrote the central discussion of optics until Newton came along.

In some senses he was one of the first scientists. Europe didn't catch up for hundreds of years.

 

[ElishaElijah]

Nope. Read the text itself. Both are for Joseph.

Sorry you’re wrong on that and Joseph wasn’t his real Dad

 

[Polymath257]

Sorry you’re wrong on that and Joseph wasn’t his real Dad

From Matthew:

"5 And Eliud begat Eleazar; and Eleazar begat Matthan; and Matthan begat Jacob; 16 And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ. "

Jacob begat Joseph, not Mary. Mary is only mentioned because she is the husband of Joseph.

So, if Joseph wasn't his real dad, why have a genealogy of Joseph at all?

 

[ElishaElijah]

From Matthew:

"5 And Eliud begat Eleazar; and Eleazar begat Matthan; and Matthan begat Jacob; 16 And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ. "

Jacob begat Joseph, not Mary. Mary is only mentioned because she is the husband of Joseph.

So, if Joseph wasn't his real dad, why have a genealogy of Joseph at all?

To establish Jesus royal line to the throne as King. He fulfilled the Scriptures:Isaiah 9:6-7
For unto us a Child is born,
Unto us a Son is given;
And the government will be upon His shoulder.
And His name will be called
Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
Of the increase of His government and peace
There will beno end,
Upon the throne of David and over His kingdom,
To order it and establish it with judgment and justice
From that time forward, even forever.
The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this.

The main point though was the record to Adam.

 

[sojourner]

But! What if He does?

What if God doesn’t?

 

[Subduction Zone]

thousands witnessed Christ after He rose from the dead, thousands witnessed Him perform miracles, millions saw God open the red sea and the Egyptian army drown,etc. You ask some very strange question for someone who supposedly read the Bible.

There is no reliable record of that. All that you have is a book of myths that makes that claim.

And we know that the Red Sea story never happened.

I not only have read the Bible, I have understood it.

 

[Subduction Zone]

There's nothing to learn about wikipedia, I have already summed it up. how could you possible turn it into something that it's not by your words?

No, you have only made false claims about it that you could not support. Like it or not it is a far more reliable source than you have ever used.

By the way, shouldn't a Christian follow the Ten Commandments?

 

[Subduction Zone]

“Then the Lord God formed the man out of the dust from the ground and breathed the breath of life into his nostrils, and the man became a living being.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭2:7‬
Once God’s life (the breath he gave you) leaves your body you die, decay.
Fact

Nope, unless your God is oxygen.

 

[Polymath257]

To establish Jesus royal line to the throne as King. He fulfilled the Scriptures:Isaiah 9:6-7
For unto us a Child is born,
Unto us a Son is given;
And the government will be upon His shoulder.
And His name will be called
Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
Of the increase of His government and peace
There will beno end,
Upon the throne of David and over His kingdom,
To order it and establish it with judgment and justice
From that time forward, even forever.
The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this.

The main point though was the record to Adam.

Thereby ignoring the actual text: they are both genealogies for Joseph. Neither is for Mary.

Furthermore, if Joseph is not the actual father, then his genealogies are irrelevant.

 

[ElishaElijah]

Nope, unless your God is oxygen.

Nope, unless your God is oxygen.

Human beings are body, soul and spirit.

Thereby ignoring the actual text: they are both genealogies for Joseph. Neither is for Mary.

Furthermore, if Joseph is not the actual father, then his genealogies are irrelevant.

The genealogy goes back to Adam who was a real man not a myth like you said.

 

[ElishaElijah]

Thereby ignoring the actual text: they are both genealogies for Joseph. Neither is for Mary.

Furthermore, if Joseph is not the actual father, then his genealogies are irrelevant.

It’s also an interesting study to go back and look at world history, go look at the timeline of nations, when do you see all the activity, about what year?

 

[Subduction Zone]

Human beings are body, soul and spirit.

Where is your evidence of soul and spirit?

The genealogy goes back to Adam who was a real man not a myth like you said.

You mean the self contradicting genealogies written by men? That is no evidence. The Adam and Eve myth was refuted quite some time ago. We can show why the story is wrong, can you show any reliable evidence for why it is right?

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Who's history do you want me to read???. I'm sure you know the old saying everyone writes their own history to make themselves look good and the opposition look bad. I'm not here to take anyone's hook line and sinker bait. I'm only interested in the truth, as in facts. i know most hate the truth as it gets in the way but there are some of us who embrace it.

You're dodging again.

History is history.
Algebra comes from the islamic world.
Why do you think our numeric system are called arabic numbers?

You seem to be drowning in conspiratory nonsense.

 

[ElishaElijah]

Where is your evidence of soul and spirit?



You mean the self contradicting genealogies written by men? That is no evidence. The Adam and Eve myth was refuted quite some time ago. We can show why the story is wrong, can you show any reliable evidence for why it is right?

And Noah’s ark and the flood is also true, resurrection of Jesus -true as well as His return all true. God predicted the world events happening right now, it’s all in the Scriptures written ahead of time. Daniel describes these as well as the other prophets. Be a good idea to look into it so you aren’t caught off guard.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

How would you know what the evidence looks like if you haven't got a clue what you're looking for.

I can't know what the evidence looks like if everybody consistently refuses to present it.

However, after months of people claiming to have evidence and consistently failing / refusing to present it, I'm going to conclude that they are lying and that no such evidence exists.

It's not like I have another choice.

Do you expect me to just believe you on your word that you have "irrefutable proof" and then just accept your claims without actually ever being presented with this "irrefutable proof"?

Think again.

If you have evidence / proof, then present it.
Otherwise I'm just going to assume that this evidence / proof does not exist.

So please, for the bazillionth time, if you have such evidence / proof, then present it.

What's with the hold up?

as it stands, you could trip over the evidence on the street and not know it, so yeah that's a bit of a problem for you to deal with

Any time you wish to present the evidence you claim you have........................................

Don't expect me to accept your claims without said evidence.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Yes, I know it's a free for all, mass confusion website which is constantly being changed so you never know what's on today's menu. That might be OK for those who want to kill some time playing trivial pursuit, but no serious intellectual would ever refer to such a gimmick as a source of reliable facts

So I guess this means you won't be taking the bet then. Funny.

Owkay. What source would you accept?


Also, you never answered my question: are you a follower of the QAnon folks?

 

[Subduction Zone]

And Noah’s ark and the flood is also true, resurrection of Jesus -true as well as His return all true. God predicted the world events happening right now, it’s all in the Scriptures written ahead of time. Daniel describes these as well as the other prophets. Be a good idea to look into it so you aren’t caught off guard.

I see that you are back to calling God a liar. Why do you do this?

By the way, are you aware that Daniel did not write a good part, if any, of Daniel? And you appear to be misinterpreting "prophecies". Part of Daniel appears to have been written as history, not prophecy.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

again, all of that sounds interesting but it doesn't fit the reality that Islam is 1000 years behind Christianity in every respect.
Just look at the Islamic countries, they're still using donkeys for transport.Their greatest invention of all time was the kebab and the Christian West sends probes to Mars, go figure

Your not-so-well-hidden pseudo-racist assessment of the present islamic world does not, in any way, change anything about the fact that during it's golden age, it was the epicenter of scientific advancement while christian europe was in its dark age burning knowledge books instead of writing them.

1000 years ago, the roles were reversed.