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Truth: either God exists or He don't.

Pilgrim Soldier

Active Member
But that is what *every* culture does: it takes what was known before and adds to it.

The Islamic thinkers made *huge* advances. To the point that now we think of many of those advances as trivial. But they weren't. For example, the concept of a number line is now taught to kindergartners. But it was clearly NOT a part of Greek, Egyptian or Babylonian mathematics. In fact, just the opposite: geometry and number theory were seen as very distinct areas with no cross-over.

One of the ways you can tell a true genius is that some topic was difficult to impossible before them and taught in basic courses after. By this standard, there were many Islamic mathematicians that were geniuses.

In the area of cubic equations, the Islamic mathematicians again went well beyond what anyone had done before. One of the best ALSO wrote poetry and may even be known to you: Omar Kayyam.



Roman Catholicism is the version of Christianity that chose which books would be included in the Bible. It was also the version that decided that the divinity of Jesus was central to Christianity. Remember that the main contender for early Catholicism was Arianism. And the Arians did NOT believe that Jesus was actually human.



The difficulties happened long before that. Galileo, if anything, represented the beginning of science in Europe. Because of the Protestant revolution, Galileo's ideas were able to spread, even though they were not allowed to spread in Catholic areas. of course, the Protestants also had issues: most of the 'witch burnings' were from Protestant areas, not Catholic ones. And Calvin was not exactly a wonderful leader of Geneva.

Galileo was at the beginning of the 1600's. Newton was later 1600's to early 1700's. Plenty of other advances were made during the 1600's, including an early steam engine.

It's also the case that Catholic Europe was much more tolerant of new ideas before the Black Plague went through. During the 12th and 13th centuries, in particular, the Catholic universities were places of great intellectual striving. Many basic concepts, such as inertia and the idea that theory should be able to agree with observation, were developed at that time. But, that was also *after* the re-introduction of Greek ideas by the translation of Islamic texts after the crusades and the reconquest of Spain.
The ancient Egyptians had mathematical skills which baffle modern mathematicians, the pyramids were constructed using advanced mathematics and they were constructed with precise geographical and astronomical calculations to achieve their unique positioning.

The Vatican authorised a different Bible to the one Christians accept, we don't recognise Roman Catholicism as Christianity. We see it as the same old Pagan Roman Religion, with some Christian teaching mixed in.

We believe that modern technology came from Demons, who gave it to people like Tesla who sold his soul to the Devil for it. The so called UFO's and Grey Aliens are all products of Demonic technology.
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
I invest most of my time studying God's Word, so it doesn't leave me much time to waste on studying all the false religions
1) It obviously hasn’t done you much good. Perhaps your hermeneutic is flawed?
2) being versed in world religions is part of knowing about your own. Your problem is you appear to be too enamored with the tip of your own narrow nose to care about anyone who doesn’t fit your mold. If such were the case with Jesus, he would never have ministered to the woman at the well, or lionized the Samaritan as being “good.”
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
What's the best selling book been every year for the past 2000 years??????? yep you guessed it. so much for you facts claim accusations, the evidence is in your face
Popularity is no indicator of fact. Is “appeal to the masses” really the best you’ve got? Pathetic.
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
As you know everyone, everyone carried around expensive leather bound note books and Parker Pens. As you know most of them we stolen and turned into hand bags and wallets and the pages were used to start the stove, so yeah
You didn’t address my question. Maybe because you can’t.
 

Pilgrim Soldier

Active Member
This is a claim that tells us that you have not studied the Bible. It is one which you cannot justify. There were clear teachings of Paul that went against the teachings of Jesus.

Some of Paul's teachings were the same. If you scoured his writings I know that you would find some. But there are some that are not taught by Jesus at all.

I made no false allegations and you could not justify the error that you made. Again, you need to study your book of myths.
Again, more repetitious rhetoric but not a single point made. Saying I don't believe something because I don't without any reasons speaks volumes about you world view.
Making false allegations then qualifying them with nothing but your faith is just ludicrous
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Nope. That’s simply not How It Worked in ancient Palestine. It was an oral, not a scribal culture. Since the apostles didn’t author the texts, your post makes 0 sense.


I don’t know what leads you to that knee jerk “conclusion.” Why do you think Jesus would be a “big problem” for me? Why would you think I’m not a Trinitarian?
Or are you simply trolling and being provocative?
Your version of Christianity is not his version of Christianity, therefore you are damned to hell. Makes perfect sense to me:rolleyes:

You have to admire how he switches back and forth from trying to use the popularity of Christianity as "evidence" and then claiming that most Christians are not saved just a few posts later. I do not think that he values consistency very much.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Again, more repetitious rhetoric but not a single point made. Saying I don't believe something because I don't without any reasons speaks volumes about you world view.
Making false allegations then qualifying them with nothing but your faith is just ludicrous
I made a point. Apparently you did not understand it. Simply ask questions, politely and properly of course, and I will try to answer them for you. And what supposed "false allegations" did I make? Please be specific. You seem to be claiming that I did something that was not in my post.
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
The printing press came much later, so the Apostles were dead by that time. The life and death and resurrection if Christ, was witnessed by countless thousands of people who followed Him everywhere He went and recorded every word He said.
So you are dead wrong about both of your points, Jesus remains the most talked about person in human history. every atheist is obsessed with Him and every other religious leader is obsessed with him and it's evident He is a big problem for you as well. You just can't deal with the fact that He is God almighty creator of all things.
You neglected to address the elephant in the room: you say that you only deal in fact, and yet you use the nonfactual Gospels as source material. You didn’t even attempt to show that the Gospel material is factual. You simply went off on a tangent about my faith and beliefs, which have nothing to do with the matter at hand. Is your apologetic strategy to just throw crap at the wall to see what sticks?
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Your version of Christianity is not his version of Christianity, therefore you are damned to hell. Makes perfect sense to me:rolleyes:

You have to admire how he switches back and forth from trying to use the popularity of Christianity as "evidence" and then claiming that most Christians are not saved just a few posts later. I do not think that he values consistency very much.
As I told the poster, his apologetic seems to be to throw crap at the wall to see what sticks.
 

Pilgrim Soldier

Active Member
You do not even know what science is or how it works. Right now you are using quite a bit of science that traces its routes to a known homosexual. He was eventually killed by the society that could not accept him.
I know God created and gave us science, He is the only scientist. The rest are just passive observers, the homosexual guy just made some observations and noted them down. Then other men made other observations and noted them down, then they shared them and came up with an idea to build an electronic calculator, Big deal :rolleyes:
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
As I told the poster, his apologetic seems to be to throw crap at the wall to see what sticks.
What is sometimes called a "hit and run" poster. He is good for some light entertainment, but he is so wrong that there is no real pleasure in debating with him. It is a bit like arguing with a five year old.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
I know God created and gave us science, He is the only scientist. The rest are just passive observers, the homosexual guy just made some observations and noted them down. Then other men made other observations and noted them down, then they shared them and came up with an idea to build an electronic calculator, Big deal :rolleyes:
Sorry, you only have mere belief. Knowledge is demonstrable and all that you have yet to demonstrate any. Also you appear to know very little about anything outside of the Bible and even your knowledge of the Bible seems to be rather limited.

Would you care to try to debate properly?
 

Pilgrim Soldier

Active Member
News flash, there are even less Nobel prize winners for Christian science than muslims winners for secular science. So apparently Islam beats Christianity. Too bad that the all of Christian winners are practitioners of secular science. Too bad, you chose the wrong team of Christian scientists otherwise you could've beaten "team" Muslims. :D
It's easy to make all these claims with no actual evidence. Christians scientists refuse to accept any awards from the false scientists, your welcome to have all the fake awards
 

Polymath257

Think & Care
Staff member
Premium Member
Your forgot a small but important detail, Jesus rose from the dead and He met Paul on the road to Ameus. there He gave Paul instructions and He gave him the Holy Spirit who spoke through Paul from that time on.

Well, that is what Paul *claimed*. is there any other supporting evidence for his claim?


Sure secular science is evidence based, the problem is the evidence they accept is the same evidence they fabricated. The whole things falls over when actual independent evidence is applied to it.

Such as?

You don't get to set the goal posts when you talk about evidence, nobody owns evidence. Evidence is what exposes lies, it's not meant to be invented then used a s a weapon against the truth.

And evidence is not a weapon against the truth: only a weapon against falsehoods. You, as well, don't get to ignore evidence (although that is what you wish to do with evidence that the Earth is 4.5 billion years old).
 

Pilgrim Soldier

Active Member
You are in your free right to dislike others for their belief, but i chose not to hate you back for it.
No Sir, I actually love you and everyone else. The Lord Jesus Christ commanded us to love everyone, including our enemies, but unbelievers are offended when they hear the truth and they think that proclaiming the truth is hate speech.
We don't want to see anyone end up tormented in hell fire forever, so we warn them at the expense of being hated. I would rather be hated now and loved in eternity then hated for all eternity by those I didn't warn.
 

Polymath257

Think & Care
Staff member
Premium Member
It's easy to make all these claims with no actual evidence. Christians scientists refuse to accept any awards from the false scientists, your welcome to have all the fake awards

The 'Christian scientists' are just hucksters trying to get your money by playing to your biases. They know there is a HUGE population of people willing to swallow what they say and not check it in any way. That is the only way they can survive.
 

Polymath257

Think & Care
Staff member
Premium Member
What's the best selling book been every year for the past 2000 years??????? yep you guessed it. so much for you facts claim accusations, the evidence is in your face

Do you think that might be because books had to be transcribed by hand for most of that period and it was the monks that did the writing? Not that it was exactly 'sold', mind you.

Do you know what the *second* best 'selling' book over the last 2000 years is? I'd bet you don't.
 

Polymath257

Think & Care
Staff member
Premium Member
The ancient Egyptians had mathematical skills which baffle modern mathematicians, the pyramids were constructed using advanced mathematics and they were constructed with precise geographical and astronomical calculations to achieve their unique positioning.

Actually, we know the level of mathematics used by the ancient Egyptians. And it was NOT advanced in any sense. They were able to do some basic algebra (although no symbolic representations) and some basic geometry formulas, but not much else. What they *were* able to do was accurate (well, except for calculations involving pi). We know this from the Moscow and Rhind papyruses, which had fairly extensive mathematical aspects to them.

The Vatican authorised a different Bible to the one Christians accept, we don't recognise Roman Catholicism as Christianity. We see it as the same old Pagan Roman Religion, with some Christian teaching mixed in.

We believe that modern technology came from Demons, who gave it to people like Tesla who sold his soul to the Devil for it. The so called UFO's and Grey Aliens are all products of Demonic technology.

I don't even know how to respond to that. From what I can see, that is simply ridiculous. There *are* no 'grey aliens' or demons. UFOs are exactly that: unidentified. Until they *are* identified.
 
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