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Try to prove to me your religion.

Rainbow Mage

Lib Democrat/Agnostic/Epicurean-ish/Buddhist-ish
Let's start with the Trinity. I believe UU's broke away from the Congregational Church over this issue.

Correction: Unitarian Christians broke from mainline Christianity over the Trinity. Unitarian Universalism isn't a Christian denomination, its a Universalist religion, and doesn't necessarily require any belief in a deity at all- as in my case.

As such, I have nothing invested in either a trinitarian or unitarian view of god.
 
The fact is, independence from God was a choice that Adam made in full knowledge of the consequences. What makes you think he didn't know what he was doing?

The story makes no sense. First, why did god put the tree of knowledge where Adam and Eve could get to it if he didn't want them to touch it? God obviously wants obedience but decides to give humans free will which makes disobedience possible, again, makes no sense.

So either the god of the bible isn't very bright or he meant for this to happen so he can conduct some sick kind of science experiment were he continually weeds out the disobedient humans by the cruelest means available.

The human race came out from under God's care and protection when they chose to obey another god. They separated from Jehovah......he did not separate from them.
He generously provided for them and if they had remained obedient, they would still be here enjoying life with all their children in peace and happiness.

God did not "make" Pharaoh's heart hard....Pharaoh's heart was already hard....God did not soften it...why would he?

Wrong again.

Exodus 10:1
Then the LORD said to Moses, "Go to Pharaoh, for I have hardened his heart and the hearts of his officials so that I may perform these signs of mine among them

Romans 9:18
Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.


Joshua 11:20
For it was the LORD himself who hardened their hearts to wage war against Israel, so that he might destroy them totally, exterminating them without mercy, as the LORD had commanded Moses.
 
Adam and his wife knew full well what the penalty was for disobeying the only law that carried the death penalty. A knowledge of evil was withheld from humankind because it would only bring trouble on the human race. Satan lied to the woman and made the fruit appear to be desirable, implying that God was withholding something that would benefit them.
The woman wasn't his target however. Adam knew full well what the law meant as God had taken quite some time to educate him before giving him a mate.....and as family head, he had passed on his education to his new wife. The Bible says that the woman was deceived by the serpent...but Adam wasn't. (1 Tim 2:14)
He made a deliberate choice to side with his disobedient wife and suffer the consequences. It was a test of his loyalty and he failed miserably.

Adam knew the consequences and he probably also loved his wife. So he chose to stand by his wife and share her fate. God didn't like being chosen second after Eve and threw a tantrum. Doesn't paint the god of the bible in a good light.

God's pets? Seriously?.... he treated them like the law breakers they were. There is not one single statement of remorse from either of them. They did not make a mistake, each abused their free will and made a willful decision to disobey their God....but for different reasons. In any case, the devil's plan worked and now there were three rebels to deal with. How God handled this situation had a bearing on all humankind as well as for his angelic creation for the rest of eternity, so he took the long term solution.

God wants mindlessly obedient slaves. That is obvious if you actually read the bible without bias. The god of the bible consistently gets rid of people that don't do things HIS WAY, period. A god that wants slavishly obedient yes men creating beings that would go against him is a huge logical inconsistency.
 
The answer to this is in Job. In targeting this faithful man, satan accused the entire human race of having purely selfish motives in serving a God who generously blessed them.
He basically said if he was allowed to take everything Job valued out of his life, that he would curse God to his face. Job lost his 10 children and all his material assets in one blow after another, yet the man kept his integrity, not blaming God for his misfortune. When that didn't work, satan tried a new tack. He said....“Skin for skin. A man will give everything that he has for his life.  But, for a change, stretch out your hand and strike his bone and flesh, and he will surely curse you to your very face.” (Job 2:4,5)

He didn't say that Job would give anything to save his life, but "a man"...meaning all humans. We are all Job...the devil will try his hardest to get people to curse God and leave him, but God knew that faithful ones who knew him would remain faithful as Job did, no matter what the devil threw at them...despite the severity of the trials, we too can imitate Job. The end of Job's story is not often told...but here is the lesson:

"After Job had prayed for his companions, Jehovah removed Job’s tribulation and restored his prosperity. Jehovah gave him double what he had before. 11 All his brothers and sisters and all his former friends came to him and ate a meal with him in his house. They sympathized with him and comforted him over all the calamity that Jehovah had allowed to come upon him. Each of them gave him a piece of money and a gold ring.
12 So Jehovah blessed the last part of Job’s life more than the beginning, and Job came to have 14,000 sheep, 6,000 camels, 1,000 pairs of cattle, and 1,000 female donkeys. 13 He also came to have seven more sons and three more daughters. 14 He named the first daughter Je·miʹmah, the second Ke·ziʹah, and the third Kerʹen-hapʹpuch. 15 No women in all the land were as beautiful as Job’s daughters, and their father gave them an inheritance along with their brothers.
16 After this Job lived for 140 years, and he saw his children and his grandchildren—four generations. 17 Finally Job died, after a long and satisfying life."


A faithful course, successfully enduring trials, will reap a large reward. (Prov 27:11)

I am familiar with the story, god callously tortures some poor sap so he can stroke his own ego. That's who you hold as a moral authority figure? It's ok to torture someone, kill their family, as long as you pay them off afterwards. That story teaches such wonderful moral values. I choose to believe it is just a story made up by primitive men that has no basis in reality.
 
What is illogical about giving earth's caretakers his own qualities? God has free will and he gave that gift to us.....but what was initially a blessing was turned into a curse when it was abused and free will became an excuse to abuse the free will of others.

Again, an illogical argument. God demands obedience yet gives qualities to his creation that can lead to disobedience.
 
Do you want to abolish free will and live a programmed life like the animals? I don't. I value the ability to make choices and to use my free will to the benefit of others.
I love the fact that I can choose what to wear....what to eat....what friends to have....what job I want.....what entertainment I like. All of that is the exercise of free will. How can you not value it?

You seem unable/unwilling to consider my argument. The god of the bible DEMANDS obedience, that is a fact. The god of the bible consistently disposes of those that do not obey him, that is a fact. The bible god hates evil, yet creates beings capable of evil. It doesn't make any sense. If a all-everything god wanted to create mini-me's of itself that never offended or disobeyed it, it would be able to do that, right? Isn't that what you are implying that god attempted and failed to do when he made man? Doesn't that paint the god of the bible as a failure as a creator? In all honesty the bible paints god as a bumbling, sadistic, tyrant.

Its like a kidnapping. The human race was taken hostage in the garden and a ransom was demanded to set them free. That ransom was paid two thousand years ago and we are waiting to go home. God does not operate in earth time. The first rebel was a spirit so the issues raised had to be resolved in universal time.

Still waiting for evidence to back your position or even one sound argument.
 
Do you want to abolish free will and live a programmed life like the animals? I don't. I value the ability to make choices and to use my free will to the benefit of others.
I love the fact that I can choose what to wear....what to eat....what friends to have....what job I want.....what entertainment I like. All of that is the exercise of free will. How can you not value it?

The ability to choose is a limited one. What free will does someone have if you deprive them of choices? What free will does someone have to follow YOUR god when they have never heard of him? Free will arguments are a poor choice for supporting your position.
 
If you take that attitude, you are basically distancing yourself from God. He will not have anything to do with those who have a rebellious spirit. He owes us nothing...not even an explanation, but he gives us all we need to know in his word. We owe him everything. Our life is a miracle if you stop and think about it. From all the eggs that your mother was born with, and the millions of sperm made by your father...the union of just one of each produced "you". There is no one like you in all of creation. Did God do that? No! Your parents did that. God just provided the mechanism....but the mechanism is awe inspiring! Creation itself is awe inspiring! Do you walk around with your eyes closed?

*sigh* your line of reasoning and arguments have no substance. I could substitute the word god in the above paragraph with Bimby the magical unicorn and it would make just as much sense and be just as unsubstantiated as the original, unaltered argument. Provide some evidence and sound reasoning for your position instead of unsubstantiated claims and special pleading.

Yes it is my belief, and there is nothing in existence that will convince you if you choose not to open your mind and heart to what is right in front of you. For a believer, no proof is necessary.....for the unbeliever, no proof is enough.

God doesn't need you or me...it is we who need him, if we want what he is offering. If you don't want what he is offering then shaking your fist at him is not going to make a scrap of difference to the outcome of your existence. :( It will end badly when it doesn't have to.[/QUOTE]

You have yet to demonstrate your god exists. I will give your claims about your deity the same consideration I do for any other deity. At least I am being unbiased and intellectually honest. Are you?
 
I believe that is the whole idea of a first cause ie that there is not a designer going infinitely back but that there must be an original designer at some point.

The argument for god having to exist to create complicated things like life immediately falls about when you turn around and say that god can just exist without a creator. If god can just exist then a universe that has the right conditions for life to come about in it can JUST exist (no creator necessary). The argument cancels itself out.
 
He told me the church would slip something in. That same day the words "In Jesus name" were slipped into the confession. It had never happened before and never happened again while I was there. I believe He told me that because He takes exception to it.

If this is the standard of evidence required for a religion to be true then every religion that ever existed is true. That, or people having visions and hearing voices is just something going on in their brain and has nothing to do with actual reality.
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
The story makes no sense. First, why did god put the tree of knowledge where Adam and Eve could get to it if he didn't want them to touch it? God obviously wants obedience but decides to give humans free will which makes disobedience possible, again, makes no sense.

A small test of obedience was not unreasonable because God had given his human creation free will. Placing the tree of the knowledge of good and evil right in front of them posed no hardship at all for sinless beings. It was a test of their respect for him as their rightful sovereign and respect for what he had placed in his own exclusive jurisdiction. Obeying this command was not difficult as there was no restriction on any other tree...not even the tree of life. If satan had not deceived the woman, the man may never have succumbed to the temptation. But a temptation is something the devil always uses because he himself succumbed to it and he knows that self interest can override obedience. His appeal is always to self interest.

So either the god of the bible isn't very bright or he meant for this to happen so he can conduct some sick kind of science experiment were he continually weeds out the disobedient humans by the cruelest means available.

The "sick experiment" as you call it is an object lesson....a very long and powerful one for humans stuck in earth time. But not for those who dwell in universal time. God's prime target in all of this is the one capable of causing the most damage. Humankind are the hostages. Some have cozied up to their kidnapper and are doing his bidding.

How could God prove to both angels and humans that his sovereignty is the right one for all his creatures unless he handed it over to a rival who claimed that he was the better god? (Luke 4:5, 6)

If he just flexed his muscles and wiped the rebels out, what would that have proven? Only that God is more powerful. The devil never challenged God's power...he challenged his way of ruling and his right to set reasonable limits to the exercise of free will. Time has proven that the devil is a dismal failure as a ruler. A knowledge of evil has only brought pain and suffering to the world under his control. (1 John 5:19) Would it have been enough for God to just tell us this....or was a more powerful demonstration in order? One that would never allow a rebel to ever make an accusation against the sovereign of the universe again.

I can see the lesson clearly...why can't you? So many are suffering from the "poor me" syndrome that they fail to appreciate why we are suffering in the first place....it isn't because of what God has done...but because of the abuse of free will. Only those who can use it as God intended will become citizens of his kingdom. As I said, right from the start, life was conditional....and rightly so.

The reward for faithfulness in the face of the devil's challenge will be amazing.

Wrong again.

Exodus 10:1
Then the LORD said to Moses, "Go to Pharaoh, for I have hardened his heart and the hearts of his officials so that I may perform these signs of mine among them

Romans 9:18
Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.


Joshua 11:20
For it was the LORD himself who hardened their hearts to wage war against Israel, so that he might destroy them totally, exterminating them without mercy, as the LORD had commanded Moses.

It is often spoken in Hebrew terminology that something that Jehovah permits is the same as him actually doing it. Please read the entire account of the ten plagues in Gen 9-12 and you will see that Pharaoh's heart was allowed to remain hard. God didn't make it so. He just did nothing to soften it because he knew him to be a stubborn and proud man....just the type of haughty individual he detests. When the Israelites demonstrated those same attributes, he punished them too....did they learn the lesson....nope, and they still don't get it.
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
As for the rest...who could possibly get through a wall of attitude like that? If you hate God that much and can misinterpret everything that is written in the Bible so negatively, then you will go down cursing.

You won't be alone. :( (Matt 7:13, 14)
 
A small test of obedience was not unreasonable because God had given his human creation free will. Placing the tree of the knowledge of good and evil right in front of them posed no hardship at all for sinless beings.

"Sinless"? You mean creatures without free will who are basically robots. Again if god wanted obedient mini-me's he failed or meant for this to happen all along. Either way doesn't paint the bible god in a good light. The logical and honest view of this story is that is just a story made up by ancient primitive men like all similar stories for gods you don't believe in.

It was a test of their respect for him as their rightful sovereign and respect for what he had placed in his own exclusive jurisdiction. Obeying this command was not difficult as there was no restriction on any other tree...not even the tree of life. If satan had not deceived the woman, the man may never have succumbed to the temptation. But a temptation is something the devil always uses because he himself succumbed to it and he knows that self interest can override obedience. His appeal is always to self interest.

The talking snake is not satan. The talking snake was cursed to crawl on its belly (seems like a ancient superstitious man's attempt to figure out why those lizard's didn't have legs to me) and eat dust the rest of its life. It is clear in genesis that the snake is a beast of the field (that can talk!). However, later in the bible it says satan is a fallen angel. So either later authors didn't pay close attention to genesis when they added their stories on, or they are two separate entities which makes more sense given the inconsistences. What makes the most sense is that these are ancient mythological stories trying to make sense of the world before the emergence of science.

How could God prove to both angels and humans that his sovereignty is the right one for all his creatures unless he handed it over to a rival who claimed that he was the better god? (Luke 4:5, 6)

It occurs to me that if god were such a great leader no one would oppose him in the first place. Yet according to the bible there are those that oppose him. It's hammered home again and again in the bible that god wants mindless obedience. It makes no sense to make disobedient beings. You have yet to address why your god who very obviously wants complete obedience would create beings who can be disobedient to begin with.

If he just flexed his muscles and wiped the rebels out, what would that have proven?

That he sincerely cares about his people.

The devil never challenged God's power...he challenged his way of ruling and his right to set reasonable limits to the exercise of free will. Time has proven that the devil is a dismal failure as a ruler. A knowledge of evil has only brought pain and suffering to the world under his control. (1 John 5:19) Would it have been enough for God to just tell us this....or was a more powerful demonstration in order? One that would never allow a rebel to ever make an accusation against the sovereign of the universe again.

Another logical inconsistency. God wipes out humans left and right that oppose him but this chuckle head satan talks smack and not only does god not wipe him out, he panders to him and tortures poor Job. Humans must truly be lowly creatures to be treated so callously.

I can see the lesson clearly...why can't you? So many are suffering from the "poor me" syndrome that they fail to appreciate why we are suffering in the first place....it isn't because of what God has done...but because of the abuse of free will. Only those who can use it as God intended will become citizens of his kingdom. As I said, right from the start, life was conditional....and rightly so.

I see it for what it is, ancient mythology and you embrace it as reality. The world is what it is, you have yet to provide even one sound argument that your supernatural belief system with talking snakes and a vengeful god should be seriously considered.

The reward for faithfulness in the face of the devil's challenge will be amazing.

I think I would prefer the Mormon god's reward, becoming a god myself. Though in the Hindu belief system you could be reincarnated as a god as well. So many unsubstantiated religious belief systems to choose from. I could also just make up my own, people do it all the time.

It is often spoken in Hebrew terminology that something that Jehovah permits is the same as him actually doing it. Please read the entire account of the ten plagues in Gen 9-12 and you will see that Pharaoh's heart was allowed to remain hard. God didn't make it so. He just did nothing to soften it because he knew him to be a stubborn and proud man....just the type of haughty individual he detests. When the Israelites demonstrated those same attributes, he punished them too....did they learn the lesson....nope, and they still don't get it.

When god was running around punishing people as he is wont to do, why didn't he punish the Chinese civilization or the many tribes that existed in North America? The reason is because he was made up and believed in by people in one small part of the world. Even after two thousand years there are people who have never heard of your god. Your god didn't create man, we created him.
 
As for the rest...who could possibly get through a wall of attitude like that? If you hate God that much and can misinterpret everything that is written in the Bible so negatively, then you will go down cursing.

You won't be alone. :( (Matt 7:13, 14)

You have yet to show that your god even exists. I can't hate something that doesn't exist. I believe the bible is an ancient book of mythology that should be treated as such. If you hate reality and sound reasoning so much I guess you can wallow in your ignorance.
 

ChristineES

Tiggerism
Premium Member
The trouble with these kinds of challenges is that no one can truly prove anything to another person, the way I see it. In things such as faith, a person has to experience something for himself or herself. And you can prove that faiths and religions exist, it's proof of God that is true question.
 

Kelly of the Phoenix

Well-Known Member
But why did God even bring the flood in the first place?
Gen 6:5, 6:
"Jehovah saw that man’s wickedness was great on the earth and that every inclination of the thoughts of his heart was only bad all the time. 6 Jehovah regretted that he had made men on the earth, and his heart was saddened." He lamented "I regret that I have made them.”
So ... no proof of any wrongdoing other than the author's word. Got it. As we all know, no one has ever lied about the morality of others....

Show me where death was even mentioned in Eden except as a punishment for disobedience.....No disobedience = no death. Humans are not designed for death....they chose it.
So, whatever Adam and Eve ate survived being eaten until eliminated?

Medicine can prevent death only whilst a human life is still viable. No one can bring someone back from death when it inevitably claims us. Where are your great, great grandparents?
If Lazarus had been beheaded, is Jesus able to bring him back? John the Baptist was, and Jesus didn't seem to think it was an option, and John was a good friend.

The fact is, independence from God was a choice that Adam made in full knowledge of the consequences. What makes you think he didn't know what he was doing?
Because the knowledge between good and evil is SPECIFICALLY what the tree imparts.

God did not "make" Pharaoh's heart hard....Pharaoh's heart was already hard.
Exodus 9:12 (ASV)
And Jehovah hardened the heart of Pharaoh, and he hearkened not unto them, as Jehovah had spoken unto Moses.

Satan lied to the woman and made the fruit appear to be desirable, implying that God was withholding something that would benefit them.
Satan's not in that story and the serpent did not lie, as God affirms what the serpent said was the REAL reason God didn't want them to eat the fruit mere paragraphs later. If the serpent is lying, so is God.

There is not one single statement of remorse from either of them.
They tried to hide from an omnipresent-ish being, right?

He basically said if he was allowed to take everything Job valued out of his life, that he would curse God to his face. Job lost his 10 children and all his material assets in one blow after another, yet the man kept his integrity, not blaming God for his misfortune. When that didn't work, satan tried a new tack. He said....“Skin for skin. A man will give everything that he has for his life.  But, for a change, stretch out your hand and strike his bone and flesh, and he will surely curse you to your very face.” (Job 2:4,5)
What did the dead livestock, family, and servants think about God?

A faithful course, successfully enduring trials, will reap a large reward. (Prov 27:11)
So everyone who has suffered and died weren't faithful? Is that why Jesus died? "Take this cup from me" doesn't sound so faithful, so I guess that's why he had to die ...

Do you want to abolish free will and live a programmed life like the animals? I don't.
You are an animal, not a plant or a mushroom or a rock. You have all the limitations of all animal life. The universe doesn't care if you're a robot, nor does it care if you like it.

That ransom was paid two thousand years ago
Sacrifices don't work that way. Jesus woke back up three days later. He got a refund and that's why you still have to bother repenting.

He will not have anything to do with those who have a rebellious spirit.
How do you square this with
I value the ability to make choices and to use my free will to the benefit of others.
I love the fact that I can choose what to wear....what to eat....what friends to have....what job I want.....what entertainment I like. All of that is the exercise of free will. How can you not value it?
While you mention "to the benefit of others", how does anything you listed fit that?
 

Mackerni

Libertarian Unitarian
"What isn't possible?" "Nothing." "Therefore, everything is possible." How do so few words mean so much to me? Well, consider that without fail, all species on Earth are intentionally trying to survive and surpass the last generation that died. Some will. Many won't. Humans are perhaps the only species where one can be born with inferior genetics and circumstances yet have the natural ability to thrive like the rest of them. It's uncanny. Our species is able to do so much, with incredible utilities at our disposal. These utilities possess the inner power of both knowledge and power, of science and technology, and it is rapidly accelerating at faster speeds. With many believing that they have the ability to commune with the divine and gain a sense of greater benevolence.

What I'm trying to get across, ultimately, is the sense of divinity in oneself and others. Consider the possibility that if you move something and nothing else moves it, it stays in that position and would continue to do so until an outside factor moved the thing you were moving. We are great, wondrous creatures that happened to have abilities beyond our wildest dreams. We are a product of our ancestors, and so were they, and then on. Everything is occurring at a more organised and intelligent fashion than ever before. We shape our realities around us, by the computer programmer modelling CGI effects for a movie or video game.

What is the point of all of this progression? Well, I would certainly like to think that many, if not most people like the changes we've done so far. It all leads up to a point, our extropy, called The Omega Point. The Omega Point happens when all realities that are possible collide with one another, creating an infinity loop of probabilities. I see a mass exaltation going on around me at all times. One decision leads to another and eventually leads us to your reality. This is your reality. Everything is striving to become greater than what it possibility can become, but with the current and future technologies humans impose all realities might and probably will itself become reality.

Everything I see is driving us closer to infinite reality. Our reality itself is drawing closer to its own infinity. The progression is for the purpose of divinity - to be closer to our own salvation; to become biologically immortal; to possess the technologies to reshape the future of nearby planets and to find our much-distant cousins, to eventually go forth far enough that we have enough to be worthy under these constraints, to be valued not for who we are but who are are about to become.

I believe that the afterlife will consist of this life, and will merely be a simple continuation thereof. I believe that dying will become a mistake rather than fate. I believe all is holy and doesn't need the recognition for a supreme overlord to be worthy of its own grace. I believe that supreme overlord (God) does not exist, but, in many ways, exists in each of us as we ourselves strive to be more benevolent, potent, knowledgeable, and present ourselves to many faces in many different ways. I see this collective whole of existence on Earth becoming much greater than the sum of one.

I've been trying to develop a new term of theology to describe what I'm experiencing everyday. Apotheosis only describes the ascension of one man to his own personal salvation. Theosis is the Christian term to describe any believer in Christ waywards to Heaven. Pantheism is the belief that everything is God, but I don't see divinity in everything - I see a great climb in an uphill battle towards the goal. Thusly, I term this theology pantheosis. It is a belief of potential divinity in all that exists. It is the hope that things will get better.

Without this belief, I am nihilistic. I don't see the point in everything we're doing right now if it doesn't have some goal attached to it. My theory states that if and when I do die, I will be brought back to life by future humans somehow. I attend on making that theory a reality. I want to be around for the distant future. As far as pre-life goes, I believe the same as scientific thought: I am an assembled of excess genetic code from my mother and father that happened to get lucky with the biological big bang. That excess genetic code was made from my mother when she was born, and is continuously being made by my father to this day.

On that note, I would like to say that just like scientific pantheism, or even panentheism, there is nothing within what I believe that inherently goes against scientific belief. When you search religion on dictionary.com you get a nice juicy definition that basically boils down to what our beliefs are regarding the nature of the universe. I'm going to quote it for you


"A set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs."

The cause is to prevent the end times from ever occurring, and to reach the end of evolutionary apotheosis with a mass-deification process, a.k.a the pantheosis. The reason we will do this is to prevent utter oblivion that is prevalent among every species. All rituals performed should try to strive for this, although most do not. I believe that doing something, even if it's simple as typing up a basic report about your beliefs on the computer, constitutes a higher act of living, and regardless of what is being said should be taken under consideration. However, filling time with zoning out, staring into space, and general apathy functions as acts of inaction, and would be viewed as someone choosing to live in oblivion. The general ethical code is to become godly; namely, omnibenevolent.

So, to sum this up, I don't think I can prove my religion. My religion, like all religions, is a viewpoint. I like to stay positive however and think that even if people never come close to believing the things I hold true, that the human race would survive long enough that I do have an afterlife. My general belief is that pre-life is oblivion (biological energy) and post-life is oblivion (biological energy), but that there is a good chance, a reasonable probability, that there would be some way to bring me back into life. I plan on writing a part of my will that will deal with my conscious, wherever it is decided that I go to. I named this, 'religion' I've invented The Faith of Exaltation and the general philosophical concepts behind it Exaltism. I would much like to go down in history like the French positivist philosopher Auguste Comte did. I which his Church of Humanity was still around, I find it to be very enlightening, just reading what he tried to do with it on Wikipedia. I liked the fact that you wouldn't be a clergy of the church unless you were married.

Anyways, I hope this answers all your deep questions about my faith. I've tried to answer it from an emotional standpoint, a logical standpoint, and a direct standpoint. I hope this helps you find yourself. You're pretty brave to want to everybody's viewpoints on this subject (aren't you an atheist)?
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
Correction: Unitarian Christians broke from mainline Christianity over the Trinity. Unitarian Universalism isn't a Christian denomination, its a Universalist religion, and doesn't necessarily require any belief in a deity at all- as in my case.

As such, I have nothing invested in either a trinitarian or unitarian view of god.

I believe that is the case now but not originally. I believe there were two separate groups in the beginning Unitarians and Universalists and that they joined into one body at some point in history but I would have to look it up to be sure. So I was referring to Unitarians not Universalists although I believe Universalists also departed form the Congregatinal Church.

I looked it up in Wikipedia -
  • Unitarianism, (1565–present) a liberal Christian theological movement known for its belief in the unitary nature of God, and for its rejection of the doctrines of the Trinity, original sin, predestination, and of biblical inerrancy.
 
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Muffled

Jesus in me
The argument for god having to exist to create complicated things like life immediately falls about when you turn around and say that god can just exist without a creator. If god can just exist then a universe that has the right conditions for life to come about in it can JUST exist (no creator necessary). The argument cancels itself out.

I believe it is not the same. A creation shows a design but the intelligence of God can sometimes seem random.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
If this is the standard of evidence required for a religion to be true then every religion that ever existed is true. That, or people having visions and hearing voices is just something going on in their brain and has nothing to do with actual reality.

I believe I was not giving evidence of whether a religion is true but evidence that God is real.

I believe the evidence points to the contrary. I don't believe anyone's brain is capable of predicting a surprising future. Sure one can get lucky and predict who will win the world series but that isn't so surprising because someone will win one.
 
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