Tucker Carlson, Colonel Douglas Macgregor, The Ukraine War

[Sargonski]

In the first few seconds he’s already told several lies. If you actually read the ‘mainstream media’, the NYT and others he refers to, the picture is entirely different. The situation is complex, the reporting is complex. Read around a bit and you can easily find out Carlson is a bare-faced liar.



His conclusions are as dumb as a prehistoric egg.

Got things all backwards and mixed up Brother Tom .. is the MSM picture that is the lie .. the bare faced Liars .. misrepresenters .. and spinners of falsehood ridden with Sin of Omission.

Where is your support for claim the prisoners are not being treated well .. yet you make the accusation of Lying .. completely made up nonsense .. of which you have no idea whether true or false.

I don't know either .. but I do know there have been a number of Prisoner Swaps .. and for some strange reason .. havn't heard any complaints ... and you know if there were such complaints they Would be aired on Western Media 24/7.

So who is the one "dumb as a prehistoric Egg" calling out "Liar Liar" .. with absolutely no idea the truth or false hood of claim .. no idea what so ever ..

 

[Copernicus]

Regarding the Azov Battalion among others, a cursory online search will provide information to the contrary due to a long history:

https://www.timesofisrael.com/ukraine-divided-over-legacy-of-nazi-fighters/​

Your link was flagged by my anti-virus software as unsafe, so people should be careful. It is important that the link dates back to 2013, before the Russian invasion of Ukraine. It is true that there is a historical link to neonazis and ultranationalist Ukrainians. However, after it was incorporated into the Ukrainian military, it underwent some depoliticization in 2017 and should be considered just another military battalion now. That's not to say that it has been cleansed of all neonazi elements, but it is subject to the same rules as other military units. For a more complete history of the organization, see the Wikipedia entry:

Azov Brigade​

 

[lukethethird]

Exactly, there's extremist prejudicial and bigoted elements in any given country.

True, however the Nazis in Ukraine have a history, a direct link to the involvement of the Nazis in Ukraine during the second world war, it's as if they never left, so their role today is significant.

 

[stvdv]

An alternate view to the mainstream media's narrative and support for the Ukraine war.

Thank you for sharing,

This makes sense what the American colonel says. Much more sense than main stream media conspiracy

 

[lukethethird]

Your link was flagged by my anti-virus software as unsafe, so people should be careful. It is important that the link dates back to 2013, before the Russian invasion of Ukraine. It is true that there is a historical link to neonazis and ultranationalist Ukrainians. However, after it was incorporated into the Ukrainian military, it underwent some depoliticization in 2017 and should be considered just another military battalion now. That's not to say that it has been cleansed of all neonazi elements, but it is subject to the same rules as other military units. For a more complete history of the organization, see the Wikipedia entry:

Azov Brigade​

2013 was the point, to show what this Nazi culture in Ukraine extends back to, how this ideology has been maintained since WWII. I think wiki is great but politics and religion, not always. Another military battalion now? I don't know that the Nazi elements were whitewashed so readily back in 2017. There is too much information to the contrary.

 

[Sargonski]

Okay, that was more of the garbled and poorly formatted same then. Noted.

Is that what you do when you get spanked Friend ... run around crying "Its all garbled and poorly formated" as if the grammar Nazi is an argument for something.

What seems to be the problem friend .. is the realization that you are cheering for the Nazi side too much for you to bear .. or is it being duped by Western Propaganda ?

 

[lukethethird]

Not easy at all, since Ukraine has exactly as many Nazi battalions as Russia does, which is to say none. Both countries have ultranationalist bigots that hate each other, but they need each other in order to validate their own existence. The problem, as I see it, is that a great many Russians and Ukrainians tend to identify nationhood with loyalties to ethnic (or tribal) groups rather than governments. Americans tend to identify nationhood with loyalty to a system of laws. So you can argue all you want about ethnic Russians living in various areas of Ukraine or the Baltic countries, but, as far as I am concerned, they aren't really Russians. They are citizens of the countries they live in, regardless of ethnicity and dominant language. I do think that Ukraine was wrong to try to suppress the Russian language, but Putin himself has actually helped Ukrainian nationalists to promote the Ukrainian language. A lot of Russian-dominant speakers (for example, Zelensky himself) now regularly struggle to learn and use Ukrainian.




Nobody was trying to provoke Putin. It was his choice to invade Ukraine out of a fit of pique and deranged revanchist hatred of Ukraine's independent status as a nation. NATO was actually struggling to maintain a reason for its existence before Putin changed everything, because Russia had ceased to be perceived as a threat to regional peace and stability in the 1990s. Putin didn't seem so bad at first, but he couldn't help but try to pursue his warped vision of a reconstituted Russian Empire with him its "benevolent tsar". The reason NATO experienced such a revival is that he was following a pattern that former Warsaw Pact members expected. Ukraine was being slow-walked into the alliance because the NATO nations did not want to provoke him. After his revanchist invasion and subsequent revival of hostilities in 2022, he singlehandedly elevated NATO to an essential alliance.




Pretty much all of that money is funneled back into the US economy, creating lots and lots of jobs. The war itself has caused a lot of inflation, but much of that has to do with the loss of Russian energy supplies and Ukrainian agricultural products. not the cost of increased jobs in the defense industries. The military-industrial complex loves this war.




Its easy for them to inform the public of whatever they please, since that's what they do for a living. It happens that this was a totally unprovoked attack by Russia, since Russia was not itself under attack. That's why Putin had to start the invasion of Crimea with anonymous "little green men" that hid their national affiliations. He had no detectable casus belli except his own paranoia. Eventually, of course, he couldn't maintain the fiction, so then he came up with his "One People" manifesto about all of those poor oppressed ethnic Russians that wanted to become part of Russia--exactly the kind of tactic that Hitler used initially to justify his own aggression in Austria and Czechoslovakia.

From the start of this invasion I have heard it repeated on corporate news more times than I can remember that this invasion was unprovoked and people repeat it, including posters on this forum. I wondered if you formulated your belief based on that. Did trigger happy Putin not voice his security concerns regarding Ukraine joining nato prior to sending the troops in?

Jobs for munitions factory workers, Reagan trickle down economics, how well has that been working out for the working man? I ask because the military industrial complex always needs a war and so I wonder to what extent they go to exploit differences between states such as Ukraine and Russia, also Taiwan and China., I mean, what is the CIA for anyways? The US tax pool is large to say the least and the military industrial complex always needs another war to tap into it. Rather lucrative for the neocons on capital hill and their cronies, while workers get to keep their crappy jobs.

 

[Sargonski]

What rubbish. There are neo-Nazi Hitler admirers and bigots in both militaries, including the vaunted "Wagner Group", named after Utkin's nom de guerre call sign--Hitler's favorite composer. The Azov Battalion, like the Wagner Group, does not adhere to any specific Nazi doctrine.

No, you completely distorted what I wrote, because you either weren't able to process it or you just wanted to respond to what you wish I had written. For example, I never said there "are no Hitler admirers". There are bigots in every country, every government, every military, etc. It's almost as if I was saying that individual human beings can be prejudiced. Some more than others. Do you disagree? That doesn't mean that some group they belong to shares their outlook or philosophy. The rest of your post isn't worth a response, but it would help if you responded to what I actually said rather than spout memes generated by Russian and/or rightwing propaganda mills.

My mistake .. I thought you said No Neo Nazi Hitler admirers .. but ... if you agree that there were Neo Nazi groups then what are you saying is Rubbish ?

What is Rubbish is deflecting to the Wagner Group ... It wasn't the Wagner Group SS persecuting and killing Ethnic Russians It was the Azov Nazi SS. Your claim that no specific Nazi doctrine is adhered to is completely made up nonsense .. you having no idea what dotrine is adhered to .. absolutly no clue .. talking for the sake of moving lips.

State Sponsored Nazi Atrocity ... Now you understand ?

 

[Sargonski]

You get what you give.

Not interested in Dick Buttkiss .. the Football guy .. think it was the Bears then commentator .. good one .. doubt he was hassled in school about his name though ..

So we should stop helping arm Ukraine and just let them lose against the country that invaded them?

Yes .. since we are not willing to help them enough to win .. this is just an excercize in making Ukrainian Sausage ... and thus what is the point of wasting more lives .. spending more Treasure .. Pissing off a whole lot of the world while neglecting the real war .. which is Economic .. and which is China ..

Do u Under-Stand what is going on here ... You willing to send your son into that hopeless mess .. Good for you .. but let us agree to disagree on that fine line between bravery and stupidity ... and we are well past that .. into the criminal negligence arena .... Some of these battles ... front line life expectancy in hours .. as reported by the "Western Media" described as a "Meat Grinder" .. by the Western Media .. leaving out the part that the ratio is 10-1 .... Ukrainian-Russian.

Trench Warfare --- Artillery War --- 10 -1 artillery ratio .. and being outshot 10-1 .. Ukraine running short on Ammo .. Nato no way to maintain the supply .. and did we mention that Russia is the one in control of the skies. War like never before .. The clone wars have begun ...

These poor Ukrainians .. and you can go watch videos .. made by reporters embedded .. in the grey zone advancing towards the first line of the Russian Defenses .. taking meaningless territory - abandoned towns from time to time .. back and forth .. these guys looking for Cover in a forested Area .. they know the Drones are out there watching .. as soon as you are spotted .. they send targeting info to the Artillery and pinpoint strikes boom boom boom .... and it is all filmed real time from these drones ... on both sides doing this .. just more from Russia because they control the skies.. this stuff published every day on numerous youtube channels ... stuff released by the MOD .. Stuff from Ukraine...

What part of "Ukraine is not allowed to Attack Mother Russia" --- when deer in headlights the second time I told you. How the freak are you going to win a war .. especially with a much better equipped and more populous adversary .. when you can not attack the homeland ?

Now hey .. maybe one day .. during Band Camp Story Time -- The US will change these rules .. not only can Ukraine have F-16s and Long Range Weapons .... You can use them to attack Russia .. "Hip .. Hop .. Hurrah" These planes will not get into combat for at least another year the numbers far too small to make much of a difference .. but its the thought that counts .. aye Shade .. Keep Going until every last ukrainian is dead .. and then what ? You are still sitting outside of Russia's defensive walls .. and Winter number 2 is coming .. hopefuly it is a warm one like the Last .. the EU doesn't go further into the red due to crushing energy prices.

but hey .. who cares what I say .. what's your solution smarty pants

 

[Sargonski]

Exactly, there's extremist prejudicial and bigoted elements in any given country.

Yeah .. but its not in every country these Neo Nazi Groups form State Sponsored Militias .. begin targeting certain ethnic groups for persecution and extermination like subhuman rats .. or rather "Orcs"

Whos that in the Picture Brother Art.. Tell me true tell me why .. they are venerating the Spawn of Adolf .. what is going on here ?

ds

 

[Tomef]

Got things all backwards and mixed up Brother Tom .. is the MSM picture that is the lie .. the bare faced Liars .. misrepresenters .. and spinners of falsehood ridden with Sin of Omission.

Where is your support for claim the prisoners are not being treated well .. yet you make the accusation of Lying .. completely made up nonsense .. of which you have no idea whether true or false.

I don't know either .. but I do know there have been a number of Prisoner Swaps .. and for some strange reason .. havn't heard any complaints ... and you know if there were such complaints they Would be aired on Western Media 24/7.

So who is the one "dumb as a prehistoric Egg" calling out "Liar Liar" .. with absolutely no idea the truth or false hood of claim .. no idea what so ever ..

You can easily verify whether Carlson’s description of media coverage is accurate or not by simply reading the media coverage. You can find out yourself in half an hour’s reading that his representation of media coverage of the war is completely false. As it’s hard to believe he isn’t actually aware of that, I mean I assume he actually reads some of the stuff he comments on, unless he really does have zero integrity, then he is of course lying. I’ve been following reporting on the war since it began and the reporting on it is nothing like Carlson’s notions about it.

You can also quite easily find all the information you need into ongoing abuses, on both sides but predominantly from the Russia side. This information and the thorough, ongoing investigations are publicly available.

You don’t know what is true because you don’t bother to look into it, or because you lack the ability to think critically, I don’t know. I’ve seen so many of these idiotic posts it’s hard to understand what motivates them. One common theme however is that the posters, like you, haven’t actually read the information they dismiss out of hand on the word of an inveterate liar like Carlson. Frankly, it’s astonishing. What prevents you, for example, from actually reading the media reports to verify whether or not Carlson’s representation of that reporting is accurate? I read the NYT, the Economist, The Spectator, the Times, The NY-er and others of the often disparaged (by ignorant morons who never even read the things they dismiss) MSM, and everything and more in this dumb vid is covered - NATO expansion, corruption in Ukraine, the massive casualties on both sides. None of this is news, people have been reporting on it and opining on it for the last 2 years.

 

[Copernicus]

2013 was the point, to show what this Nazi culture in Ukraine extends back to, how this ideology has been maintained since WWII. I think wiki is great but politics and religion, not always. Another military battalion now? I don't know that the Nazi elements were whitewashed so readily back in 2017. There is too much information to the contrary.

I don't know how much you know of Ukrainian history, but you seem to have a this impression that there was some kind of ideological compatibility. The Germans used right wing nationalist movements in the countries they invaded to undermine the governments of their targets, but nationalists were always more interested in setting up independent sovereign nations based on their own ethnicity rather than supporting Hitler's plan to replace native populations with German Übermenschen. Shortly after occupying Ukraine, the Germans rounded up and jailed or killed the leaders of the Ukrainian nationalist movement, including Bandera. Ultimately, Bandera was allowed to serve as a mouthpiece, but he was mainly their prisoner. Modern ultranationalists in Ukraine and Russia are pretty much the same as those the world over, but they belong to rival tribes. As for what happened to the Azov Battalion, they were incorporated in the Ukrainian army, trained, expanded, and largely depoliticized. I think that much of your information about them comes largely out of Russian propaganda mills. You certainly don't seem much interested in the Ukrainian ones. Russia pushes the "ukronazi" theme, and it has been exported to the West through social media trolling on platforms like Twitter and Telegram.

From the start of this invasion I have heard it repeated on corporate news more times than I can remember that this invasion was unprovoked and people repeat it, including posters on this forum. I wondered if you formulated your belief based on that. Did trigger happy Putin not voice his security concerns regarding Ukraine joining nato prior to sending the troops in?

I formulated my views from reading the news from a variety of sources, including Russian and Ukrainian sources. Putin voiced his concerns, just as other world leaders have. That doesn't justify his actions, and he is factually the aggressor in this war. NATO did not surround Russia after the collapse of the Soviet Union. Those who were liberated from Soviet control rushed to insulate themselves from future aggression by joining NATO.

That much should be obvious to anyone who understands the history since WWII, which started out with Hitler and Stalin forming an alliance to split up control of Eastern Europe, both sides knowing full well that they would eventually be at each other's throats after they eliminated the buffer states. WWII was a rematch between the German and Russian empires. Germany had won the first round on the Eastern front, losing only on the Western front, but Hitler thought he would go for the sucker punch when Stalin was least expecting it after they had divvied up Poland. Ukrainian nationalists were suckered into helping them against their mutual enemy--the Soviet regime, which had begun committing atrocities long before Hitler invaded Poland.

Jobs for munitions factory workers, Reagan trickle down economics, how well has that been working out for the working man? I ask because the military industrial complex always needs a war and so I wonder to what extent they go to exploit differences between states such as Ukraine and Russia, also Taiwan and China., I mean, what is the CIA for anyways? The US tax pool is large to say the least and the military industrial complex always needs another war to tap into it. Rather lucrative for the neocons on capital hill and their cronies, while workers get to keep their crappy jobs.

That's not trickle down economics. The defense industry employs large numbers of middle class Americans in high paying jobs, not really crappy burger-flipping jobs. Trickle down is about making the rich richer so that they can theoretically invest their money on employing more people, which isn't really what rich people do with all that money. The government actually hires military contractors to employ people to build stuff, even if it doesn't do much to build wealth-creating infrastructure. The military industrial complex doesn't really need a war to get richer, just a lot of lobbyists and politicians looking for campaign contributions and jobs in their districts. The aircraft carriers, bombers, and tanks can all sit around and rust for all they care. The sooner they need to be replaced with even more expensive lethal toys, the better.

 

[Copernicus]

My mistake .. I thought you said No Neo Nazi Hitler admirers .. but ... if you agree that there were Neo Nazi groups then what are you saying is Rubbish ?

I said the opposite. There are neo-Nazis in Russia's military, too. You misread what I wrote and mischaracterized it, so that was what I was referring to as rubbish.

What is Rubbish is deflecting to the Wagner Group ... It wasn't the Wagner Group SS persecuting and killing Ethnic Russians It was the Azov Nazi SS. Your claim that no specific Nazi doctrine is adhered to is completely made up nonsense .. you having no idea what dotrine is adhered to .. absolutly no clue .. talking for the sake of moving lips.

If you are talking about the behavior of Ukrainian Nazi collaborators in WWII, that was over seventy years ago. Are you thinking that the modern Wagner Group is somehow better than the Azov Battalion? If so, you must live in a hermetically sealed news bubble. Both sides commit atrocities in a war, but the Russians have been far more brutal than Ukrainians in this one. After all, they are there to kill so-called UkroNazis, aren't they? Have you forgotten Bucha and similar cases of civilian massacres already?

State Sponsored Nazi Atrocity ... Now you understand ?

Far better than you do, apparently.

See:

War crimes in the Russian invasion of Ukraine​

Ukraine war: Accounts of Russian torture emerge in liberated areas​

 

[lukethethird]

I don't know how much you know of Ukrainian history, but you seem to have a this impression that there was some kind of ideological compatibility. The Germans used right wing nationalist movements in the countries the invaded to undermine the governments of their targets, but nationalists were always more interested in setting up independent sovereign nations based on their own ethnicity rather than supporting Hitler's plan to replace native populations with German Übermenschen. Shortly after occupying Ukraine, the Germans rounded up and jailed or killed the leaders of the Ukrainian nationalist movement, including Bandera. Ultimately, Bandera was allowed to serve as a mouthpiece, but he was mainly their prisoner. Modern ultranationalists in Ukraine and Russia are pretty much the same as those the world over, but they belong to rival tribes. As for what happened to the Azov Battalion, they were incorporated in the Ukrainian army, trained, expanded, and largely depoliticized. I think that much of your information about them comes largely out of Russian propaganda mills. You certainly don't seem much interested in the Ukrainian ones. Russia pushes the "ukronazi" theme, and it has been exported to the West through social media trolling on platforms like Twitter and Telegram.




I formulated my views from reading the news from a variety of sources, including Russian and Ukrainian sources. Putin voiced his concerns, just as other world leaders have. That doesn't justify his actions, and he is factually the aggressor in this war. NATO did not surround Russia after the collapse of the Soviet Union. Those who were liberated from Soviet control rushed to insulate themselves from future aggression by joining NATO.

That much should be obvious to anyone who understands the history since WWII, which started out with Hitler and Stalin forming an alliance to split up control of Eastern Europe, both sides knowing full well that they would eventually be at each other's throats after they eliminated the buffer states. WWII was a rematch between the German and Russian empires. Germany had won the first round on the Eastern front, losing only on the Western front, but Hitler thought he would go for the sucker punch when Stalin was least expecting it after they had divvied up Poland. Ukrainian nationalists were suckered into helping them against their mutual enemy.




That's not trickle down economics. The defense industry employs large numbers of middle class Americans in high paying jobs, not really crappy burger-flipping jobs. Trickle down is about making the rich richer so that they can theoretically invest their money on employing more people, which isn't really what rich people do with all that money. The government actually hires military contractors to employ people to build stuff, even if it doesn't do much to build wealth-creating infrastructure. The military industrial complex doesn't really need a war to get richer, just a lot of lobbyists and politicians looking for campaign contributions and jobs in their districts. The aircraft carriers, bombers, and tanks can all sit around and rust for all they care. The sooner they need to be replaced with even more expensive lethal toys, the better.

Obviously provoking Putin does not justify Putin's actions, I don't know where this comes from but it seems like the biblical 'you're with us or you're against us' mindset, as in this case, if you stray from the corporate news media narrative that this invasion was unprovoked, then that is making excuses for Putin and you are a shill for Putin and blah blah blah. Unprovoked is a short, and very quick and easy concept to grasp, and it has been repeated in a corporate news media echo chamber without any need to go into any further discussion because it says it all. So far questioning it has gotten me the same knee jerk reactions, and I find that a bit telling. If Putin was provoked until the cows come home he still should not have reacted aggressively, he should have seeked out other avenues of diplomacy, but that is never discussed because to question the narrative seems tantamount to treason judging by the responses I get. It's like the narrative is so very fragile and we must do our part to hold it up.

 

[Estro Felino]

A lot of us commoners have become common taters. We common tate on just about everything.



I would have thought there'd be mixed opinions, much as what one might find in America or elsewhere in the world. Even within Russia, opinions on Putin seem mixed, even if they have to remain somewhat muted on it.



They've had terrorist attacks in Russia in the past. America has had quite a bit of domestic terrorism in its history, but terrorism from foreign sources was relatively new in the 1990s when the first WTC bombing took place. 9/11 was a surprise attack which caught America off-guard, although that has had some side effects in the aftermath, particularly in the areas of national security and patriotism - which has gone into some strange directions as of late.

I don't know if it was due to political correctness. 9/11 ostensibly happened because the people who perpetrated that act came from an area of the world where the US and its military forces were playing around in their backyard. Our militarism and interventionism in that region has produced a great deal of volcanic resentment among many people there. Some governments over there seem to like us, but our policies still seem to bother a lot of folks in that general region.

As for the intelligence services, who can say? The Soviets turned out to be crafty spymasters. Much has been said about the US intelligence services - CIA, FBI, NSA, DHS, etc. - both positive and negative. Of course, there are other global intelligence agencies which are allied with the U.S. I'm sure they cooperate and provide some help, although it's hard to say if they can all be trusted. Even our own government employees might be susceptible to being bought or blackmailed by some foreign intelligence agency (or private entity).

I remember a line from the movie S*P*Y*S from 1974, which was a parody of CIA agents operating in Paris. One of the CIA agents is mad because he thought his boss was trying to kill him, as he narrowly escaped a bomb explosion. His boss countered, "How do you know it was us?"

"Technique. The Chinese are quiet, right? The Russians are quick, and we're sloppy. And it was a sloppy job, Martinson!"

Of course at that time, it was during the Watergate/Vietnam era, and public opinion on the CIA was pretty low. Portraying the spies on "our" side as bumbling fools was a popular trope. "Get Smart" was another spy parody, with a recurring theme of Max and the Chief getting stuck in the Cone of Silence. Spy stories are also rather compelling.

...which answers the question: why are there all those conspiracy theories about Nine Eleven?
Because people basically think: the CIA is too, too skilled and good not to know about those hijackers. Ergo: they let them do it.


If they didn't know it at all, one wonders whether they exist to safeguard America's safety.

 

[Tomef]

corporate news media narrative that this invasion was unprovoked, then that is making excuses for Putin and you are a shill for Putin and blah blah blah.

What utter nonsense. Quite aside from the fact that Carlson is a corporate new narrative generator, coverage in the more objectively accurate news media covers everything from NATO's missteps to Ukraine’s shortfalls on the battlefield. Here’s a novel idea - why not actually read the news before commenting on it? What never ceases to astonish me is the utter lack of anything resembling integrity among supposed ‘Christian’ groups. All you have to do is actually check something is actually true before spreading it on public forums. You could start with The Economist, which published an opinion piece on NATO’s role in provoking the war within days of the Russian invasion. You can find similarly balanced views across what you call the corporate news, it’s a simple as just going to their websites and reading what they print.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Sorry mate .. the fellow does 20 podcasts/ interviews per week .. he is not going to same the same thing in all of them .. but he has repeated this narrative a number of times .. talks about the Black Earth in that Region .. the Nazi's would ship the stuff back to Germany so fertile .. but he may say this 1 time in 10 or 20 of his podcasts so not going to go through hours of transcripts trying to find the quote. I did try a few though .. no success .. didn't know you could get transcripts like that so thanks for that much. I watch the guy 2 or 3 times a week for updates .. but you could watch him 2 or 3 times a day .. he is all over the place doing interviews .. Judge Neopolitano is one of his weekly stops .. those convo's good to listen to.

Why you so fixated on this silly statistic though .. what is it going to prove or disprove either way that we should waste so much time on insignificant detail ? East Ukraine produces a big chunk of the Nations GNP - and what would be the point of making up something like that .. Zero .. was 90% slightly exaggerated .. maybe ? (seemed so to me so I posted 80%) but who cares to the overall picture ??

I just think it's odd that you'd post a statistic like that (even putting it in bold, so obviously you must have thought it was pretty significant) but have no idea if it's true or not.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Obviously provoking Putin does not justify Putin's actions, I don't know where this comes from but it seems like the biblical 'you're with us or you're against us' mindset, as in this case, if you stray from the corporate news media narrative that this invasion was unprovoked, then that is making excuses for Putin and you are a shill for Putin and blah blah blah. Unprovoked is a short, and very quick and easy concept to grasp, and it has been repeated in a corporate news media echo chamber without any need to go into any further discussion because it says it all. So far questioning it has gotten me the same knee jerk reactions, and I find that a bit telling. If Putin was provoked until the cows come home he still should not have reacted aggressively, he should have seeked out other avenues of diplomacy, but that is never discussed because to question the narrative seems tantamount to treason judging by the responses I get. It's like the narrative is so very fragile and we must do our part to hold it up.

Luke, I have caught you out several times for deliberately misrepresenting and distorting history and recent events. You are not going to lecture us on "media narratives". This is all just such weak nonsense, devoid of facts, so you deal in slogans instead.

We do not think as we do because we have "swallowed the corporate news media narrative". Don't you dare patronise us with such childish nonsense. It's because we, as intelligent, independently educated and sceptical people, have come to a conclusion that YOUR particular narrative is biased, and we have the work to show it.

You are the one who has digested a narrative. Hence why you are utterly incapable of debating the actual facts of the invasion and, instead, prefer to talk about "believing media narratives". Get over yourself. We know more about this than you do, and it's pretty obvious you get your information from biased, pro-Russian sources. Hence why you called an invasion a "border dispute" and mass protest leading to an ousting from power a "US-backed coup". It's because, somewhere, you read those events being described that way and are now repeating them. That's the only possible reason you would deliberately misrepresent historical events in that fashion.

You're not a warrior against imperialism. You're an apologist for imperialism.

 

[Estro Felino]

If you want to know the stance of a very prominent leader whose country borders with Ukraine, here Orban:

 

[Stevicus]

...which answers the question: why are there all those conspiracy theories about Nine Eleven?
Because people basically think: the CIA is too, too skilled and good not to know about those hijackers. Ergo: they let them do it.


If they didn't know it at all, one wonders whether they exist to safeguard America's safety.

Perhaps, although the hijackers had been living in America for a while (some as long as years; one was even a soccer coach for kids) prior to 9/11. That made it more of a domestic security issue, technically outside the purview of the CIA. Unfortunately, back in those days, our intelligence services and law enforcement communities were far more obsessed with thwarting pot-smokers than with national security.

As for the CIA, their policies ostensibly reflect that of the political authorities who set foreign policy, who decide what America's interests are, and who determine who America's friends and enemies are.

But this is where it becomes problematic because Americans are oftentimes so ignorant about the geography, history, and politics of the outside world. They seemingly take a very naive and Pollyannaish approach to foreign policy, which is how they got so easily hoodwinked into thinking that the citizens of Saudi Arabia who perpetrated 9/11 were friends and allies of the United States. They got hoodwinked by South Vietnam as well. They got hoodwinked by Afghanistan, Iran, and Iraq, too. They've also been majorly hoodwinked by China, and it appears that the Russians are able to hack into any US computer system at will - and there's nothing that the US authorities can do to prevent it.

Based on their persistent track record of failure, one has to wonder if the US policymakers and decision-makers truly, honestly know what they're doing. So, when they say that something in the world is a "threat" to U.S. interests and U.S. national security, one might legitimately wonder if they really know this or understand the world well enough to be able to make these kinds of assessments.