Tucker Carlson, Colonel Douglas Macgregor, The Ukraine War

[Tomef]

Then tell that to the posters here that the invasion was provoked and see how far you get. See if you are not accused of making excuses for Putin and for using Russian sources.

You’re not responding to my post. If you want to reply, please read what I said and respond to that. My post, as you will see when you read it, makes no mention of whoever it is you are referring to.

 

[Tomef]

give one example of a falsehood .. he is a liar .. but do not tell us a lie

? Read my post. Presumably you have watched the video? You can check his comments about reporting in the media against what is actually reported in the media to determine if he is telling the truth or not. What are your reasons for not cross-checking what Carlson says with reality? Do you think it is an honourable thing to do, to randomly spread lies without even doing your due diligence?

 

[Tomef]

not part of the conversation that you are responding to.

That is the conversation, exactly. I’m sure you’re familiar with the phrase ‘you can’t get there from here’, well you can’t arrive at an understanding of a real-world topic when you begin your journey in fantasy land. Carlson’s nonsense is easily picked apart. You can begin with verifying his opening words - very easy to do. Just read the reporting on the war and compare it to his mendacious representation. Easy. But you won’t - why? That’s the only really interesting question here. Addicted to the BS? Incapable of questioning your own pre-set beliefs? Those are the only topics that make this kind of nonsense thread worth engaging in. It is a cause of ceaseless curiosity for me how people who claim to follow a moral teacher are so blatantly dishonest and so utterly lacking in integrity.

 

[Sargonski]

Is this instruction too complicated for you? Read what I posted

Honest discussion = read what people say, respond to what they say
Your approach = dissemble and repeat the same old nonsense all of you Carlson clones swallow without the slightest attempt to even check it. It’s beyond ironic, pitiful really (bizarre? Disturbing? Unbelievable?), how you all claim to be seeing through the propaganda while you actually just accept it all without even the thought of raising a question.

Are you going to say you don’t actually understand what I wrote? If you do understand to it, why don’t you respond to it? Don’t you realise that your phoney diversions are dishonest? Don’t you think honesty is important?

Please tell me what it is you don’t understand or agree with here. You can plainly hear what Carlson has to say about the mainstream media. You can easily find out that his words are lies. What prevents you from checking? Why don’t you even try to check?

In the first few seconds he’s already told several lies. If you actually read the ‘mainstream media’, the NYT and others he refers to, the picture is entirely different. The situation is complex, the reporting is complex. Read around a bit and you can easily find out Carlson is a bare-faced liar.

This is an easily verifiable, accurate statement. You can check Carlson’s characterisation with what is actually in the content of the reporting he refers to. So, why don’t you? That would be step one: is the person presenting the video speaking the truth? No. Once you have verified that for yourself, you’ll be ready to move on to the rest of it.

I read what you posted .. a bunch of unsupported accusations followed by nonsensical state sponsored propaganda falsehood .. "In the first few seconds he has already told several lies and if you actually read mainstream media"

What Lies Bozo ? you don't list any .. how is anyone supposed to know what on Gods Green Moon you are talking about ?

Name one .. what is this big lie you have discovered ? which you follow up with .. "If you read mainstream media" which is supposedly not a lie .... criticizing those that dissent from spoon fed propaganda narrative du jour for being liars.

Do you have any idea what an argument is friend ? -- Tell you what .. since its not your first day.. give you one for free .. An argument consists of 2 things .. 1) a Premise or Claim 2) some evidence or rational showing why that claim is true

So in your case . tis would look something like 1) Doug Lied 2) about X and we know this is a lie because mainstream media said Y.

K .. now your turn .. Do number 2 for us

 

[Tomef]

I read what you posted .. a bunch of unsupported accusations followed by nonsensical state sponsored propaganda falsehood .. "In the first few seconds he has already told several lies and if you actually read mainstream media"

What Lies Bozo ? you don't list any .. how is anyone supposed to know what on Gods Green Moon you are talking about ?

Name one .. what is this big lie you have discovered ? which you follow up with .. "If you read mainstream media" which is supposedly not a lie .... criticizing those that dissent from spoon fed propaganda narrative du jour for being liars.

Do you have any idea what an argument is friend ? -- Tell you what .. since its not your first day.. give you one for free .. An argument consists of 2 things .. 1) a Premise or Claim 2) some evidence or rational showing why that claim is true

So in your case . tis would look something like 1) Doug Lied 2) about X and we know this is a lie because mainstream media said Y.

K .. now your turn .. Do number 2 for us

Do you genuinely not understand what I am saying? Or are you pretending?

You’ve watched the video, yes? How does he describe media coverage of the war in Ukraine?

Having listened to what he has to say about that, how do you know if it is true or not? Easy, you read the things he refers to. That way, you can see whether or not what he says, in the video, is true, or not. Is there anything here that you don’t understand?

Once you’ve done your checks, maybe we can have an adult conversation. I won’t be holding my breath though, in my experience anyone who gets to the point of taking someone like TC seriously is a lost cause.

 

[Sargonski]

? Read my post. Presumably you have watched the video? You can check his comments about reporting in the media against what is actually reported in the media to determine if he is telling the truth or not. What are your reasons for not cross-checking what Carlson says with reality? Do you think it is an honourable thing to do, to randomly spread lies without even doing your due diligence?

I read your post .. .didn't find the lies .. what are these lies in the first minutes of the clip you are referring to .. followed up with mainstream media reporting to the contrary.

Now tell us these big Lies you have accused Patriot Doug of telling. ... can't make it any more simple for you Brother Tom ..

 

[Tomef]

I read your post .. .didn't find the lies .. what are these lies in the first minutes of the clip you are referring to .. followed up with mainstream media reporting to the contrary.

Now tell us these big Lies you have accused Patriot Doug of telling. ... can't make it any more simple for you Brother Tom ..

I’ll try and make it simpler:

A What does TC claim the media reports about the Ukraine conflict?
B What has the media actually reported about the Ukraine conflict?
C Once you have checked B, does A match B, or not?

 

[Sargonski]

Do you genuinely not understand what I am saying? Or are you pretending?

You’ve watched the video, yes? How does he describe media coverage of the war in Ukraine?

Having listened to what he has to say about that, how do you know if it is true or not? Easy, you read the things he refers to. That way, you can see whether or not what he says, in the video is true, or not. Is there anything here that you don’t understand?

Once you’ve done your checks, maybe we can have an adult conversation. I won’t be holding my breath though, in my experience anyone who gets to the point of taking someone like TC seriously is a lost cause.

I know what you said .. you accused Doug of lying .. a number of times. ... I have watched this and numerous other of Dougs talks .. he does sometimes 3 a day .. and his description of media coverage .. is right on the money .. a propaganda freak show .. The "Mainstream Media" .. State sponsored pablum on steroids.

"Do you genuinely not understand" That every time the US is involved in a war ... the vast majority of the mainstream media "Tucker not included in many instances .. but included in some" is standing in line to peddle the Pentagon Propaganda Narrative .. committing all kinds of journalistic Sin of Omission.

Or are you just Pretending. Hoping the latter is true here ..... X fingers and knock on wood ..

 

[Tomef]

I know what you said .. you accused Doug of lying .. a number of times.

Whose posts are you reading? I haven’t mentioned Doug once. First we need to establish if you are capable of doing some basic fact checking. Then we can move on to Doug.

 

[Sargonski]

I’ll try and make it simpler:

A What does TC claim the media reports about the Ukraine conflict?
B What has the media actually reported about the Ukraine conflict?
C Once you have checked B, does A match B, or not?

This conversation is not about Tucker Carlson .. ? are you this dense or just pretending ? We are talking about Doug's comments on the war .. media propaganda. NOT Tuckers Take ..

Does 1+1 = 5 ? or does 1+1 = 6 Do you walk to work or take your lunch ?

I will try and make thinks as simple as they were before you jumped of the bridge down some fallacious rabbit hole -- again. You claimed Doug told some lies about the media reporting the conflict .. Your claim is a false nonsense .. as the Mainstream media is a propaganda show .. as is normally the case .. and why would you expect something different ..

Are you really this naive and uninformed or just pretending ?

 

[Tomef]

This conversation is not about Tucker Carlson .. ?

Of course it is. You responded to my initial post, which is about Tucker Carlson. This is how you check something - you start at the beginning. This is his show - is he a liar, or not? Very easy to check. The question you should be asking yourself is why you refuse to do such a basic thing. What you ‘feel’ is true is not only irrelevant but indicative of everything that is wrong with the audience Carlson panders to. Once again, what reason do you have for refusing to check whether his comments are accurate or not? Clearly you feel they are true - a feeling arrived at without any sort of reality verification process - but where is your proof? If you really find it too hard to do a minimal amount of research, why bother engaging in this kind of discussion in the first place? Just to vent your random notions and feelings about things you don’t understand? Is that a useful way to spend your time?

 

[Tomef]

You claimed Doug told some lies about the media reporting the conflict .. Your claim is a false nonsense

No, I haven’t mentioned Doug once in any of my posts.

 

[lukethethird]

This conversation is not about Tucker Carlson .. ? are you this dense or just pretending ? We are talking about Doug's comments on the war .. media propaganda. NOT Tuckers Take ..

Does 1+1 = 5 ? or does 1+1 = 6 Do you walk to work or take your lunch ?

I will try and make thinks as simple as they were before you jumped of the bridge down some fallacious rabbit hole -- again. You claimed Doug told some lies about the media reporting the conflict .. Your claim is a false nonsense .. as the Mainstream media is a propaganda show .. as is normally the case .. and why would you expect something different ..

Are you really this naive and uninformed or just pretending ?

The link is to a fact check, good info once you get past the tedium of his intro


(Revised) Fact Checking Tucker Carlson's Interview with Col. Douglas MacGregor

 

[lukethethird]

Russia is an imperialist force known for invading their neighbours and annexing their territory. NATO is a reactive defensive pact that PREVENTS Russia from engaging in imperialism.

Russia is also a nuclear power. Any country genuinely putting boots on the ground in Russia would effectively be rushing the world to mutually assured destruction. Russia is not, nor has it ever been, at threat from invasion by NATO.

The threat NATO poses is to Russia's imperialist and expansionist ambitions.

These things you refuse to talk about about.

Because you're an imperialist.

When the U.S.-U.K. invade a country, they go for the jugular, destroying communications, transportation, energy systems, anything needed to keep the country going. To the surprise of the U.S.-U.K. planners, Putin didn’t do that. The press reports that, “In Kyiv and much of the western part of the country, prewar life has largely returned for civilians. People eat in restaurants, drink in bars, dance and enjoy lazy summer days in parks.”

Far from the U.S.-U.K. style of war.

Western military analysts offer reasons why “Putin’s Bombers Could Devastate Ukraine But He’s Holding Back.” Whatever the reasons, the fact remains.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/04/25/russia-weakened-lloyd-austin-ukraine-visit/


This is a perspective that might shed some light on the level of this invasion.

 

[Estro Felino]

I would tell this gentle lady:
Dearest...do we Europeans interfere with the geopolitics of the Caribbean Sea, and the Gulf of Mexico? Do we Europeans interfere with the geopolitics of the the Pacific Ocean?
No...we don't do that. We have never done that and we will never do that.
So let the EU handle the geopolitical situation in Europe, particularly in the Baltic Sea and in the Black Sea. Alone. Thank you.

 

[Stevicus]

Definitely a fine line between bravery and stupidity now isn't there .. in this case some have claimed that sending troops into this Meat Grinder the Russian's have created is so far to the stupidity scale that it constitutes murder.. or at least reckless endangerment leading to mass slaughter.

At this point, it appears to be a war of attrition.

"Russia is behaving Abominably here" - War is an abominable business isn't it ... and so is Poking the Bear .. putting nuclear capable missiles on Russia's border in the case of NATO -- and other aggressive activities.... The treatment of the Ethnic Russians in Ukraine by the State Sponsored Azov Nazi Militias as also abominable .. as was not abiding by the Minsk agreement.

The thing is, the Russians still launched what would be considered an aggressive invasion. Even within Russia, there are those who might have supported securing the Donbas region, but bombing Kyiv and attacking the rest of the country was a different matter entirely.

Troubling has been the US "Do as we say - not as we Do" foreign policy .. talking "Legalities" now. Annexation of territory from a Sovereign Nation .. like in the Case of Crimea .. where you had a large Separatist population .. or in the case of Kosovo. Didn't see the western Media crying like baby over that affair now did we. Israel is another example .. Israel wants nothing to do with this conflict .. puts them in a real bad light .. funny how we are not hearning more about the killing of civilians going on there on a daily basis of late .. annexation of land by a foreign invader.

I said it at the time and I will say it now . .. The problem with throwing out the rule book .. for things you agree with .. is when others stop following the rules .. for things you disagree with.

Yeah. I'm certainly neither a spokesman nor advocate for US policymakers and the stuff they come up with. I'm well aware of what they do and their hypocrisy.

I agree that this should be left as a Regional issue .. We had no business meddling in the elections and political affairs of Ukraine .. while crying out "Russia Russia" for our own elections .. engineering a coup .. outsing a pro Russian leader in favor of a Pro Western Leader .. who then made NATO rumblings ..

Now .. feeling obligated .. as since 2014 we had been building a great army in Ukraine .. bigger than in any other nation in Europe 250,000 Strong .. during and after the civil war .. arming and supporting .. we decided to do another proxy war .. the Azov Nazi Battalion our latest JV-Team .. speaking of which ... think we are still illegally squating on Syrian Territory .. stealing their oil .. another completely fked up situation .. "Do as we say- not as we do" and spending hundreds of Billions of dollars of money we don't have .. to the delight of the donor class .. as this directly funnels money to the defense contractors.

Yes. The problem in America these days is that too many of our leaders have been so consumed with playing Army all over the world that they've been neglecting the home folks to the point where they're starting to get restless. They're making all kinds of friends around the world, while losing them here at home.

 

[Mock Turtle]

I watch the first ten minutes of the video and the Colonel is very well informed being a fighting soldier himself. Tucker Carlson sits back and listens because this guy really knows his stuff. It is too bad the Left is not allowed hear no evil, see no evil and speak no evil, with evil the other side.

They have seen the video and are astounded at how gullible people can be - especially as to Tucker types - who seems to have a perpetual expression of not understanding anything. The first chimp says - can't stand that guy's voice; the second chimp says - that guy, he's way too old, he should be dead by now; and the third chimp says - I wonder what's for tea?

 

[Subduction Zone]

In any case if it is extremist to be anti-war then I wouldn't trust Newsguard at all for any of their so called "fact checks". I mean, reporters that are anti-war are liars and cheats we all know that. Noam Chomsky is a liar, good to know.

That is not what makes them extremists. It is how they are willing to be dishonest when it comes to being against wars that makes them extremists. Most people are against wars. But most people will not lie to try to oppose them.

 

[Sargonski]

No, I haven’t mentioned Doug once in any of my posts.

Yes you have .. what a goombah .. you said the inverview was lies .. and Doug is the fellow being interviewed ... you said the war narrative media coverage was a lie .. it is Dougs assessment of the media that is given in the interview.

Get on the right page Brother Tom -- or at least the right Book .. figure out what it is you are addressing .. and what you are saying.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

The Dems and Russia were best buddies back then, until Trump won and then they blamed Trump and Russia.

Russia is an enemy of America and has been since the Cold War. Putin subverted an American election, and now the Republicans are Putin's admirers.

It has a left bias, I'm guessing a radical left in the USA would be reporting on proposals for universal health care, rights to clean water, a move away from fossil fuels, unions, fair wages, welfare, like as in normal stuff already in place in most industrialized countries.

Is that what radical liberalism looks like to you? The radical left had a proclivity for violence as with Angela Davis, the Weathermen, and the Black Panthers. They're long gone now.

Calling the Democrats the radical left is a false equivalence with the radical right. The radical right is represented by the likes of Marjorie Taylor Greene. The so-called radical left is represented by people like Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and Bernie Sanders, both peaceful people.

They are nothing alike. What does Marjorie Taylor Greene advocate for? Guns, hatred, fascism. She wants a man named Trump to be president for life. She wants an end to the Constitution, the DOJ, and the FBI. That's a radical conservative, like Putin.

By contrast, there is nothing extreme or immoral or violent about AOC. She wants universal healthcare for all, equal pay and treatment for women, people of color, and LGBTQ+. She wants to save the planet for future generations. She wants democracy, not fascism.

So not to this false equivalency of the American left and right as both being radical. Only the Republicans are radicalized, and it seems to be most of them in Congress. They supported Trump in his terrorism and fought tooth and nail to help him escape accountability.

Then tell that to the posters here that the invasion was provoked and see how far you get. See if you are not accused of making excuses for Putin and for using Russian sources.

Whatever you're calling provocation doesn't justify a military invasion by humanist values.

Why did Putin invade? Because the Ukrainian government would persecute Russian minorities in the Donbas regions and in Crimea.

As above. That's not an adequate justification for many. It sounds like you disagree.

Preventing the Donbas population from speaking Russian is persecution. According to the European Court of Justice, for example. It does justify the will to become independent. Separatism.

That doesn't justify an invasion, either. Trump thinks that his invasion of the Capital was justified, but the law disagrees as some of his soldiers have already discovered, as has he by now if he has any grip on reality left. It doesn't matter that one has a grievance when his response is violence.