Yep - coincidence, not effect of.
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Tucker Carlson, Colonel Douglas Macgregor, The Ukraine War
- Thread starter Colt
- Start date
Too many people have said that this war is an occasion to dethrone Putin.
So these people are disposed to sacrifice the Europeans' peaceful lifestyle in order to unleash a war against the tsar.
Dethrone someone who was intent on taking Russia away from democracy - now why would they want to do that? Given that this is what Putin had been doing for much of his reign. But it was his journey - as to Making Russia Great Again - shame he chose the wrong course to do so though.
InChrist
Free4ever
It truly is sad. Our politicians don’t care at all about the damage and devastation being done to the Ukrainian people…just ongoing profits for the military industrial complex.
Do you know how many undemocratic countries there are in the world?Dethrone someone who was intent on taking Russia away from democracy - now why would they want to do that? Given that this is what Putin had been doing for much of his reign. But it was his journey - as to Making Russia Great Again - shame he chose the wrong course to do so though.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
No, it is what FOX News has actually said. Haven't you ever heard of the "Tucker Carlson Defense"? You should Google search it.
And this has what to do with anything?
That's necon propaganda you're repeating. You don't seem to know how this works. We've been rehashing the same tired proxy war strategy for literally decades. The biggest difference now is that Dems have learned to be even bigger warmongers than Reps traditionally were, because they've managed to put a pretty veneer on slaughter by presenting it as "humanitarian". Obama did that with Libya, by lying about Gaddafi massacring people (never happened, no proof) so we could go in and rescue the Libyan people by...dropping bombs on them, letting the fanatical jihadists we armed and trained massacre black Libyans and create ghost towns, toppled their governement and now they have open air racist slave markets where they sell black people.
Russia's "invasion" is hardly "unprovoked". First off, NATO itself is a form of provocation against Russia. It was formed to counter the USSR, which no longer exists so NATO's reason for existing ceased to exist over 30 years ago. Instead of showing good will towards the new Russian Federation and putting NATO to bed, we kept expanding it close to Russia's borders. Of course the Russians would feel threatened by it, as it essentially is a threat. It's our military empire creeping up to their door. If they did it to us, we'd feel just as threatened.
Also, it's not a full invasion, this is mainly about the disputed territories in the eastern part of the Ukraine where it's mostly ethnic Russians and they've voted to join Russia, and the Ukrainian govermment has been bombing those people for almost a decade. So Russia sees itself as protecting other Russians. The east is where pretty much all the fighting is happening.
Our government backed a coup in 2014 which overthrew their elected president and helped to install a corrupt puppet government that has driven the Ukraine into the ground and is fermenting ethnic hatred against Russians. From what I've seen, they even use children's text books to indoctrinate children into hating Russians and that praise Ukrainian ultranationalist Nazi collabators from WWII. Zelensky is a clown and a tyrant at least as much as Putin is. He has banned religious groups and political opposition. He's a "former" actor whose political career has been bankrolled by a Jewish Ukrainian oligarch who has since fled to Israel. He's only good at putting on a show. He's still just an actor, and one of his roles is to extort money from Biden, money that is largely unaccounted for and disappearing into a black hole.
As for atrocities, you should familiarize yourself with the concept of atrocity propaganda, which is an ancient tactic of psychological warfare that even the Romans used. I wouldn't believe any of it unless there is documented evidence and an investigation by neutral third parties free of any conflict of interest. They want to grab you by the heartstrings and react emotionally instead of using logic. Easier to get people to support killing other people that way. Some of the atrocities blamed on Russia were apparently committed by Ukrainian forces. For example, the Bucha massacre may have been committed by Ukrainian forces as the victims were found with Russian aid rations, so they may have been killed for "collaboration".
With any war, there's an information warfare aspect of it and part of that is civilians bejng propagandized by their government into supporting it, which is going on heavily. They don't even realize it's propaganda. But any trained eye can spot it. The government and its media propaganda arm want to keep US citizens ignorant so we never even notice it.
Anyway, I've rambled on enough. I'm at work and was going from memory. Wars don't all of a sudden become ethical just because it's Democrats pushing it. It's still the slaughter of people for twats in suits and the criminal underground to make money from.
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That it's not credible to be obsessed with Putin, when there are hundreds of tyrants all over the world, to dethrone.
It's because Russia has resources to rob. That's why there is this obsession with Putin.
America, for one.
Exactly. It's heartbreaking whenever Ukrainians die. But also when Russian soldiers die, especially because they just obey orders.
InChrist
Free4ever
Yes, I agree. So sad.
Nope. The USSR used to be a threat - to Europe and the USA - and when it disintegrated both the West and Russia fouled it up - when we hopefully assumed that Russia might become a democracy and hence become less of a threat. Unfortunately, given their attitude often towards neighbouring countries (ex-USSR), it was hardly likely that the West would embrace them and especially when Putin was obviously on a course to destroy any democracy that might have occurred. The resources issue is a figment of your imagination. Most other countries are not threats to the USA or Europe and mostly are left alone. But Russia with its nuclear weapons is not such.
InChrist
Free4ever
If America truly stood for democracy we would not have been involved in removing a democratically elected government in the Ukrainian in 2014.
“When the Ukrainian president was replaced by a US-selected administration, in an entirely unconstitutional takeover, politicians such as William Hague brazenly misled parliament about the legality of what had taken place: the imposition of a pro-western government on Russia's most neuralgic and politically divided neighbour.”
It's not Russia that's pushed Ukraine to the brink of war | Seumas Milne
Seumas Milne: The attempt to lever Kiev into the western camp by ousting an elected leader made conflict certain. It could be a threat to us all
As far as I know, Russia had very good relations with the EU, before the war broke out.
I think that NATO could and should have handled the situation better than they did prior to the invasion, but I don't think that negates Russia's imperialism. If my country got invaded by a stronger and larger country and killed tens of thousands of people, the last thing I would want to see would be justification of the invasion. Russia is still in the wrong for invading a sovereign country.
Also, I don't think the fact that one of the two people in the video is a colonel precludes political bias. Just like everyone else, he has his biases and political preferences.
I have no doubt that the US would almost surely not help Ukraine to this extent if American interests weren't on the line, but the outcome is still that a country is receiving aid while fending off an invasion from a stronger and larger neighbor. I think that's a net good, especially given that letting Putin annex Ukraine or get away with minimal resistance could set an emboldening precedent and pave the way for Russia to invade other smaller countries like Moldova and Georgia (and Russia is already illegally occupying territory in the latter). Preventing that seems to me much better than risking it and risking a consequent third world war between nuclear powers.
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Mostly by a certain entrenched political party that pretty much caused the downfall of the US on the freedom index. and now rules the most oppressed states in the entire country with an iron fist
I'm sure many countries (including the UK) were happy for money to come into their country from Russia and not too bothered from where it came, and hence might have tolerated what was occurring in Russia. With this probably giving Putin over the years the green light as to expansion - which appears to be his ultimate aim. So, more interested in some Russian destiny than having peaceful and prosperous nations.
More than one independent organization has verified that Gaddafi indeed massacred many Libyans, though, including events that happened long before the 2011 civil war.
Libya: Abu Salim Prison Massacre Remembered
The sixteenth anniversary of the Abu Salim prison massacre on June 28 to 29, 2012, offers victims’ families across Libya the first chance to commemorate the 1996 tragedy without fear of government repression.
Unit led by Gaddafi's son carried out Tripoli massacre - HRW
A military unit commanded by one of Muammar Gaddafi's sons appears to have been responsible for the summary execution of dozens of detainees in a warehouse near Tripoli last week, a human rights organisation said on Monday.
Human Rights Watch has also reported abuses carried out by rebel militias:
The rebel militias ended up not being any better, but this doesn't change that Gaddafi's regime also committed large-scale abuses against many Libyans.
Are you saying that Nordstream one Nordstream two are bad things because Europe basically gives Russia lots of money in exchange for resources?