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UK PM Rishi Sunak: "A man is a man, and a woman is a woman, that's just common sense"

L

Little Dragon

Well-Known Member
icehorse said:
So what I genuinely want to understand is why anyone here thinks what he said is transphobic. Is anyone will to explain that?
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I don't think he is transphobic personally, despite his thinly veiled transphobic comment, instead I believe he said that out of political desperation. To appeal to the far right and nationalists etc. His polling is dire, terrible.
 
Onasander

Onasander

Member
Bthoth said:
Tough topic. No matter what side of the issue you take, you will lose. I gave a thumbs up for your guts to even bring it up.

My position will always be grounded to 'life' and the living process intending to continue living.
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I agree. It's important to remember this is a religion oriented forum and not a translation forum first and foremost, so some people will either have a classical form of ethics and household management (family and estate) schema or like me, a intentionally more rational and systematic approach to biology than popular political pressure by members demand. I got two silly people replying Sad memes for posting a empirical and visual approach to what I recognize (and I recognize LGBT as existing- as I can see them and easily descern them in many cases, just not the rest of the alphabet thats more hypothetical).

I personally would look down on anyone weak willed enough to change their position not on rational argument but social pressure to conform. That's not science. And claiming a bias to authority isn't a great method for determining fact- since at least Arius Didymus and Emperor Augustus (see the work Stoic Ethics by Didymus) we've accepted the authority of statemen and philosophers making ethical judgments on what is best or poor behavior or value judgments. Science likewise isn't based on the idea you accept whatever comes out of some labcoat wearing individual. That's not how it works remotely. It's clear there had been a rapid and mostly party line shift in the last few years on medical opinion and the supposed science never followed to prove the case. It's pure yelling and social cohesion instead. Sad.

And not all Trans are put off by this. I've known a few level headed over the years with thicker skin.
 
B

Bthoth

Well-Known Member
Onasander said:
I agree. It's important to remember this is a religion oriented forum and not a translation forum first and foremost, so some people will either have a classical form of ethics and household management (family and estate) schema or like me, a intentionally more rational and systematic approach to biology than popular political pressure by members demand. I got two silly people replying Sad memes for posting a empirical and visual approach to what I recognize (and I recognize LGBT as existing- as I can see them and easily descern them in many cases, just not the rest of the alphabet thats more hypothetical).

I personally would look down on anyone weak willed enough to change their position not on rational argument but social pressure to conform. That's not science. And claiming a bias to authority isn't a great method for determining fact- since at least Arius Didymus and Emperor Augustus (see the work Stoic Ethics by Didymus) we've accepted the authority of statemen and philosophers making ethical judgments on what is best or poor behavior or value judgments. Science likewise isn't based on the idea you accept whatever comes out of some labcoat wearing individual. That's not how it works remotely. It's clear there had been a rapid and mostly party line shift in the last few years on medical opinion and the supposed science never followed to prove the case. It's pure yelling and social cohesion instead. Sad.

And not all Trans are put off by this. I've known a few level headed over the years with thicker skin.
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Guts and tenacious.

Biology supersedes psychology on the matter. Yet, I have learned that because of popular demand, having empathy is the order to maintain before making a stance.
Peace
 
icehorse

icehorse

......unaffiliated...... anti-dogmatist
Premium Member
@Secret Chief , @VoidCat , @King Phenomenon , @RestlessSoul , @Evangelicalhumanist , @Little Dragon , @Left Coast , @exchemist , @Orbit , @sayak83 ,

Let me take a different whack at this so as to keep personal feelings separate:

I'm sure you all remember the famous scientist Carl Sagan? He died in 1996 (I believe), about 27 years ago. Now imagine we've brought him back to life. He's still the brilliant scientist he was 27 years ago, but he didn't experience the last 27 years on planet earth. And for the sake of discussion, let's say he understands transgenderism, as of 27 years ago.

Now imagine he hears the simple sentence that Sunak said, and then hears that what Sunak said is "transphobic". Now Sagan asks, "Can anyone explain to me how that sentence of Sunak's is transphobic?"

Is anyone willing to try to explain the logic to our reincarnated Carl Sagan?
 
Left Coast

Left Coast

This Is Water
Staff member
Premium Member
icehorse said:
@Secret Chief , @VoidCat , @King Phenomenon , @RestlessSoul , @Evangelicalhumanist , @Little Dragon , @Left Coast , @exchemist , @Orbit , @sayak83 ,

Let me take a different whack at this so as to keep personal feelings separate:

I'm sure you all remember the famous scientist Carl Sagan? He died in 1996 (I believe), about 27 years ago. Now imagine we've brought him back to life. He's still the brilliant scientist he was 27 years ago, but he didn't experience the last 27 years on planet earth. And for the sake of discussion, let's say he understands transgenderism, as of 27 years ago.

Now imagine he hears the simple sentence that Sunak said, and then hears that what Sunak said is "transphobic". Now Sagan asks, "Can anyone explain to me how that sentence of Sunak's is transphobic?"

Is anyone willing to try to explain the logic to our reincarnated Carl Sagan?
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No. You want to have a good faith conversation and not feign ignorance, let's have it.

I just asked you:

"Ah okay. So if you acknowledge that "men are men and women are women" is about trans issues - what do you think that slogan communicates to the conservative listeners in his audience?"

Your answer is...?
 
Evangelicalhumanist

Evangelicalhumanist

"Truth" isn't a thing...
Premium Member
icehorse said:
@Secret Chief , @VoidCat , @King Phenomenon , @RestlessSoul , @Evangelicalhumanist , @Little Dragon , @Left Coast , @exchemist , @Orbit , @sayak83 ,

Let me take a different whack at this so as to keep personal feelings separate:

I'm sure you all remember the famous scientist Carl Sagan? He died in 1996 (I believe), about 27 years ago. Now imagine we've brought him back to life. He's still the brilliant scientist he was 27 years ago, but he didn't experience the last 27 years on planet earth. And for the sake of discussion, let's say he understands transgenderism, as of 27 years ago.

Now imagine he hears the simple sentence that Sunak said, and then hears that what Sunak said is "transphobic". Now Sagan asks, "Can anyone explain to me how that sentence of Sunak's is transphobic?"

Is anyone willing to try to explain the logic to our reincarnated Carl Sagan?
Click to expand...
You are simply reaching too far, trying desperately to get an answer you want to hear. Carl Sagan, Albert Einstein and everybody else who ever lived cannot be expected to authoritatively answer any question to which he has not seen the evidence "so far." Missing out on 27 years of research, and not being either a medical doctor, neuroscientist or psychologist, his opinion should also not matter to you.

So, we all know the answer you want, so why don't you just beg for it, instead of trying to invent tricksy hypotheticals to sneak it out of an unsuspecting player? Offer us some money, and maybe one of us will give you the answer you want in return.
 
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