Ukraine has become a dictatorship, it's official

[Magic Man]

I respect your opinion.

Cool. Now I just wish you acknowledged facts.

Yes, they are.


No...I said: they don't have the same freedoms as we EU people do, but at least they held new elections.

Yes, they held sham elections that never had any chance of affecting the outcome. That's effectively the same as not having elections. It's actually kind of worse because it's deceptive and gives good content for propaganda while still being the same thing as not having elections.

What do you mean by democratic state?
Turkey is democratic?
Saudi Arabia is democratic?

Maybe we have different visions on what democratic is.

I didn't use the term democratic state.

This has nothing to do with what we're talking about. It's another whataboutism.

 

[Estro Felino]

Cool. Now I just wish you acknowledged facts.

It's an opinion.
As I have an opinion about the 2020 US elections: I don't believe they were unrigged.
But I am not stating it as a fact.
It's my opinion.

Yes, they held sham elections that never had any chance of affecting the outcome. That's effectively the same as not having elections. It's actually kind of worse because it's deceptive and gives good content for propaganda while still being the same thing as not having elections.

Your opinion. I respect it.

I didn't use the term democratic state.
This has nothing to do with what we're talking about. It's another whataboutism.

Indeed.
The topic here is Ukraine.
You are an American, right?
I don't believe Americans care about Ukrainians.
I believe Americans just use Ukrainians as pawns, as objects, as cannon fodder, because they hate Russia, and in order to weaken Russia, they are disposed to use millions of Ukrainian soldiers as sacrificial victims.
That's what I think.
And I put all this into your conscience.

 

[Magic Man]

No, dear sir.
In my country a proletariat person became Prime Minister.
Something that in the US could never happen because it's a plutocracy.

Original claim: Your posts always defend Russia's invasion of Ukraine...the death & destruction...by pointing a finger at sins of others.

You: In America the wealthy get away with so many crimes...that the poor people would never get away with.

What you said in no way addressed what he said. It's a completely different topic that has nothing to do with the original one. Then:

Me: That's true, as it is of most countries. It's also confoundingly irrelevant and doesn't at all address anything said.

You: the above quote.

This has nothing to do with what I said, what you said or what Revoltingest said. It's like an Inception of non sequiturs.

Your posts defend Russia, many times by pointing the finger at others. That's true.
In America the wealthy get away with a lot of crimes that poor people don't. That's true, but it's also true of pretty much all countries.
Obama was not wealthy and didn't come from a wealthy background. He was elected twice.

Yes, the wealthy control a lot. That's the case in America, and in most of the world. Italy is no different.

This is also completely irrelevant. If you want to get back to the original topic of Revoltingest's post, please do.

 

[Magic Man]

It's an opinion.

No. It is a fact.

As I have an opinion about the 2020 US elections: I don't believe they were unrigged.
But I am not stating it as a fact.
It's my opinion.

That's just a false claim based on propaganda. Whether you state it as opinion or fact, it's equally false and demonstrably so.

Your opinion. I respect it.

Nope. Fact. You should respect facts.

Indeed.
The topic here is Ukraine.
You are an American, right?
I don't believe Americans care about Ukrainians.
I believe Americans just use Ukrainians as pawns, as objects, as cannon fodder, because they hate Russia, and in order to weaken Russia, they are disposed to use millions of Ukrainian soldiers as sacrificial victims.
That's what I think.
And I put all this into your conscience.

Are you actually incapable of staying on one topic?

Whether or not this is true, it's completely irrelevant to what we're talking about. Please try to stick to one thing at a time.

 

[Estro Felino]

Obama was not wealthy and didn't come from a wealthy background. He was elected twice.

Obama's grandfather was a descendant from the Mayflower.
élites.
Incredibly high élites.

 

[Magic Man]

Obama's grandfather was a descendant from the Mayflower.
élites.
Incredibly high élites.

Whether or not that's true, it's irrelevant. Obama was not remotely wealthy. His father left when he was young, and his mother was not close to wealthy. Neither were his grandparents with whom he stayed.

The fact remains, he was a non-wealthy person who was elected president twice, which shoots down your claim.

 

[Estro Felino]

Whether or not that's true, it's irrelevant. Obama was not remotely wealthy. His father left when he was young, and his mother was not close to wealthy. Neither were his grandparents with whom he stayed.

The fact remains, he was a non-wealthy person who was elected president twice, which shoots down your claim.

If Obama had been a fishmonger, could he have been elected president of the United States?

 

[Magic Man]

If Obama had been a fishmonger, could he have been elected president of the United States?

Was Obama wealthy?

 

[Estro Felino]

Was Obama wealthy?

It's not about wealth. It's about prestige, élites.

 

[Kathryn]

Obama's mother was twice divorced in fact.

 

[Magic Man]

It's not about wealth. It's about prestige, élites.

You even just said it was about wealth. A plutocracy is a government by the wealthy.

Beyond that, Obama had no prestige and wasn't an elite by any stretch. You can keep trying to stretch to make your claim true, but it's not going to work.

 

[Revoltingest]

....it's more about the extreme display of indignation by those in the west as if it's a first time that that has ever happened, like who would ever imagine a nation doing that, the nerve of those Russians.

You imagine this all.
First time an invasion? No.
Why defend Russia so vigorously...& with such "indignation"?

 

[Revoltingest]

Just to be precise:
the Neo-Cons who waged horrific wars in the Middle East consider themselves God.
So they don't need another God in Heaven.
They are already God.

What an imagination.
To fiercely believe one's whims
won't make them be true.

 

[Revoltingest]

In America the wealthy get away with so many crimes...that the poor people would never get away with.

How does this justify Russia's invasion of Ukraine in your eyes?

 

[lukethethird]

You imagine this all.
First time an invasion? No.
Why defend Russia so vigorously...& with such "indignation"?

Because I know you love it.

 

[Revoltingest]

Because I know you love it.

OK.

 

[Stevicus]

I think it's pathological, it can't be helped. It's McCarthyism 2.0

I agree. I have posted many reasonable, cogent arguments, and yet, there's so much silliness in response. There's a whole slew of new posts in this thread, but I just don't have time to address all of them. I won't even bother reading most of them, since this is getting so repetitive. So, most of them will have to remain unanswered for now.

 

[Revoltingest]

I agree. I have posted many reasonable, cogent arguments.....

In your dreams.
They seem cogent to you, of course.
To me, your posts dance around issues, avoid
distinctions between invasion & defense, &
fail to recognize the risks of allowing Putin
to succeed. All in the context of your praise
of USSR.

 

[Stevicus]

....nothing.

"Nothing" you say?

The Western position seems more a legalistic one than anything else. Russia did invade Ukraine, which is a violation of the UN Charter and other international treaties prohibiting aggressive invasion. Legally, the Russians are wrong, so they should just withdraw, and that's the West's first and final word on the whole matter. They violated international law, they broke international agreements and treaties. They're as guilty as a cat in a goldfish bowl, from the West's perspective. I understand this, and I acknowledge that it's true.

Yes, Russia is guilty and the fact that the threat of nato going into Ukraine was a direct provocation, does not get Putin off the hook. As threatened as he felt by the thought of western missiles right on his border makes no difference, he's guilty of war crimes for sending the troops in. Unfortunately, diplomacy appears to be a thing of the past, there appears to be no diplomats representing any of the countries involved.

So, above are two posts here which clearly do NOT defend Russia, and yet you characterized it thusly:

Histrionics in defense of Mother Russia.

So, in other words, criticizing Russia is "defending Russia" in your eyes. How much more off the mark can one possibly be? Can anyone be more wrong than you are here?

 

[Stevicus]

In your dreams.
They seem cogent to you, of course.
To me, your posts dance around issues, avoid
distinctions between invasion & defense, &
fail to recognize the risks of allowing Putin
to succeed. All in the context of your praise
of USSR.

I guess you have your dreams, too.