Ukraine has become a dictatorship, it's official

[Revoltingest]

So, in other words, criticizing Russia is "defending Russia" in your eyes.

What a strange inference.

 

[Revoltingest]

I guess you have your dreams, too.

I dream of Ukraine defeating Russia.

 

[Stevicus]

What a strange inference.

Well, if you think that criticism of Russia constitutes "defending Russia," I would call that a strange inference. It's very bizarre for you to do this. I say "black," yet you claim I said "white."

 

[Revoltingest]

Well, if you think that criticism of Russia constitutes "defending Russia,"...

I don't recall your criticizing Russia.
Did I miss a post?

 

[Stevicus]

I don't recall your criticizing Russia.
Did I miss a post?

Obviously you did. I even quoted it in post #939. Check it out.

 

[Revoltingest]

Obviously you did. I even quoted it in post #939. Check it out.

Wow!
I wish I'd seen it earlier.
It's the first time I recall that you made clear declarative statements.
And putting Russia in a bad light too.
Wow!

 

[Stevicus]

Wow!
I wish I'd seen it earlier.
It's the first time I recall that you made clear declarative statements.
And putting Russia in a bad light too.
Wow!

Then maybe you (and a few others here) should take the time to actually read what I write before jumping to conclusions. (I think some people are so obsessed with trying to find commies that they get a bit overzealous and careless.)

 

[Revoltingest]

Then maybe you (and a few others here) should take the time to actually read what I write before jumping to conclusions.

I've read so much of what you post.
When it's the same old same old
time after time, it's easy to lose
concentration.

(I think some people are so obsessed with trying to find commies that they get a bit overzealous and careless.)

Where are the commies?

 

[Kathryn]

Then maybe you (and a few others here) should take the time to actually read what I write before jumping to conclusions. (I think some people are so obsessed with trying to find commies that they get a bit overzealous and careless.)

I've run into that on this forum a time or two.

 

[Stevicus]

I've read so much of what you post.
When it's the same old same old
time after time, it's easy to lose
concentration.

Then why bother posting any response at all, if you're not going to bother to read what you're responding to? What's the point?

Where are the commies?

There aren't any anymore. They're all extinct.

 

[ajay0]

He was originally elected so, yes, as are many such authoritarian dictators. And he has since made many major changes that effectively make him a dictator:

"The dramatic move sent shock waves around Europe and drew increased attention to the demolition of democracy in what was once one of Central Europe’s most promising countries. Since returning to power in 2010 with a two-thirds supermajority, which has allowed Orban’s Fidesz party to redraft Hungary’s constitution, the prime minister and his cronies have undermined the independent judiciary, hollowed out the media, targeted minorities, and siphoned European Union funds. According to the nongovernmental organization Freedom House’s 2022 report, Hungary is only “partly free”—the only EU member state to fall into the category shared with India, Pakistan, Serbia, and others.

India is the world's largest democracy ,and has not created international military alliances to threaten other nations to the point of war.

The two world wars themselves that killed hundreds of millions of human beings, originated in the west on the basis of military alliances, and India has responsibly stayed away from such alliances.

India is one of the cofounders of the non-aligned movement to prevent military alliances that may plunge the world and humanity into a devastating third world war.

Don't go by propaganda reports funded by the military industrial complex seeking to expand its weapons sales and profit-making by war-mongering and seeking greater allocation of government funds and tax money in the process.

 

[Estro Felino]

I dream of Ukraine defeating Russia.

Thank you for your honesty.
You probably only want Ukrainians to be used as cannon fodder to weaken Russia and to kill as many Russian soldiers as possible.
If you admitted to that, I would appreciate you for your honesty and fairness.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

At this point what difference does it make why nations invade other nations?

It makes a lot of difference if you're trying to place blame. It also seems especially convenient how you constantly gripe about America's or NATO's intentions for providing aid, and yet when it comes to Russia's motivations for CARRYING OUT THE INVASION TO BEGIN WITH, suddenly it becomes irrelevant.

Curious, that.

2) You really do think in terms of us vs them,

No, actually. You're the one doing that. You genuinely think that because America is involved it's involvement must be bad.

you pick sides and talk about defending god and country

Nope. Never said either of those things, so that's just an outright falsehood that I demand you retract.

I have never made a "god and country" argument. I support Ukraine's right to fight against annexation and invasion.

in the name of democracy,

I prefer countries that are democracies not be taken over by countries that aren't, yes. I support that.

the same banner flown in every war, from the safety of your armchair far away from any danger.

This is a weird statement to make, as if I am advocating sending troops in, or advocating for anything other than providing support for Ukraine to defend themselves and a preference for Russia to stop invading them.

Not a single coherent argument out of you yet. Just repeating bumper-sticker phrases and this false pretence of ideological superiority (while displaying no actual coherent ideology).

So, I will make my position known. I'm anti-war, anti-imperialism and pro-democracy. That's why I don't like Russia (an imperialist non-democracy) invading Ukraine (a democracy), and I am upset that Russia started a needless war that has left thousands of Russians and Ukrainians dead. It is also why I support the rights of Ukraine to maintain their independence and prevent Russian annexation through military means, and I support Ukraine's allies providing that support so that Ukraine and its citizens can defend themselves against - and perhaps even repel - Russian invasion.

Please, point to the ideological flaw or inconsistency in this position.

 

[Magic Man]

I agree. I have posted many reasonable, cogent arguments, and yet, there's so much silliness in response.

You can keep saying it, but it won't magically become true. You have posted some ridiculous arguments, and there have been many reasonable, cogent arguments pointing out how silly yours are.

There's a whole slew of new posts in this thread, but I just don't have time to address all of them. I won't even bother reading most of them, since this is getting so repetitive. So, most of them will have to remain unanswered for now.

Yes, it's getting repetitive, because you and the others keep distracting and deflecting. Instead of actually addressing the ridiculous claims you've made, you hide behind accusations of "McCarthyism" and such. It wouldn't be so repetitive, if you'd take the time to listen and understand and respond honestly.

 

[Magic Man]

"Nothing" you say?




So, above are two posts here which clearly do NOT defend Russia, and yet you characterized it thusly:



So, in other words, criticizing Russia is "defending Russia" in your eyes. How much more off the mark can one possibly be? Can anyone be more wrong than you are here?

No, the problem is that all of your other posts oppose the things you just quoted. You go from "Russia's invasion of Ukraine is wrong, and they should pull out and go home" to "Well, Russia has always expanded for defensive purposes and to create a buffer zone, and they already have enough land, so they aren't trying to gain more just for the sake of it". And then you and other play whataboutism and talk about how horrible the U.S. and UK are and one of you talks about how "disappointed" he is in Russia because he thought they were better than this. And then when we point out the inaccuracy of those things, you dig in deeper and fall back on claims of "McCarthyism" instead of addressing the criticism.

If you admit that Russia is wrong here and should stop their invasion and go home, then just say that and don't spend all this time defending them.

 

[Magic Man]

Thank you for your honesty.
You sound like you couldn't care less about Ukrainians' lives.
You probably only want Ukrainians to be used as cannon fodder to weaken Russia and to kill as many Russian soldiers as possible.
If you admitted to that, I would appreciate you for your honesty and fairness.

It's fascinating that you can twist "I support Ukraine" into this. That's a whole lot of mental gymnastics.

For the record, obviously we all care about Ukrainian lives. That's why I point out that Russia should not have invaded and should stop their invasion immediately. That saves Ukrainian lives AND Russian lives!

You will only appreciate honesty and fairness, if we admit to something false and obviously ridiculous? Odd take.

 

[Estro Felino]

It's fascinating that you can twist "I support Ukraine" into this. That's a whole lot of mental gymnastics.

Actually people like me love Ukraine, no offense.
Americans have demonstrated that they only want Ukrainians to keep dying instead of finding a temporary solution with Russia.
If Russia keeps those four regions, it's not the end of the world.

We also lost countless territories after WW2. But at least millions of lives were saved.

For the record, obviously we all care about Ukrainian lives. That's why I point out that Russia should not have invaded and should stop their invasion immediately. That saves Ukrainian lives AND Russian lives!

What's your solution?
I have a solution. I have just said it. Peace talks. Compromise.

 

[Magic Man]

Wow!
I wish I'd seen it earlier.
It's the first time I recall that you made clear declarative statements.
And putting Russia in a bad light too.
Wow!

For full context, that post did start with this:

It's a variation on the refrain of "those who are not with us are against us." McCarthyism was similar in that it took the same stance on an ideological basis, which also targeted liberals, progressives, and civil rights leaders whose economic views and sympathies for poor people made them appear to be communist dupes or "useful idiots," if not outright agents of Moscow, in the eyes of U.S. policymakers and others of influence.

So, one can be forgiven for glazing over at this point and not paying attention to what's after this drivel that was about the 20th time this same type of thing was posted. Along with the fact that that one paragraph was buried underneath the other 300 posts defending Russia and attacking those who pointed out that the posts were defending Russia.

 

[Magic Man]

Actually people like me love Ukraine, no offense.

Words have meaning. You love Russia and Putin. You started this thread to criticize Ukraine unfairly. You support Putin's invasion. Just claiming "I love Ukraine" doesn't negate all of that.

Americans have demonstrated that they only want Ukrainians to keep dying instead of finding a temporary solution with Russia.
If Russia keeps those four regions, it's not the end of the world.

Ukrainians want to keep fighting instead of giving in to Russia. I'm supporting their decision. You are opposing it. The only temporary solution with Russia would be to surrender. Even if they only gave up some land, the chances of Russia stopping there would be about zero.

It may or may not be the end of the world, but it's not for you to tell another country that they should just give up part or all of their country.

We also lost countless territories after WW2. But at least millions of lives were saved.

Millions of lives were lost. The war only ended when the Axis powers were defeated. It was either give up when they did or lose more lives before giving up. And the Axis was fighting on the wrong side, they were fighting to take over other lands and to murder millions of innocent minorities.

What's your solution?
I have a solution. I have just said it. Peace talks. Compromise.

My solution is for Russia to stop its invasion and go home. They've already had peace talks, and Russia has already made clear their demands in order to strike a deal. "Compromise" means giving Russia what they want and making Ukraine suffer. My solution is to not give Russia what it wants and to not make Ukraine suffer.

 

[Estro Felino]

Words have meaning. You love Russia and Putin. You started this thread to criticize Ukraine unfairly. You support Putin's invasion. Just claiming "I love Ukraine" doesn't negate all of that.

Absolutely not. I criticize the dictatorship in Kiev. The people who are forced to go to war are the victims here.
If they were volunteers, there would be no need of compulsory conscription and compulsory recruitment.

Ukrainians want to keep fighting instead of giving in to Russia. I'm supporting their decision. You are opposing it. The only temporary solution with Russia would be to surrender. Even if they only gave up some land, the chances of Russia stopping there would be about zero.

The decision taken by the godless and devilish élites that live in your country.
Because it is them who are funding Zelenskyy, ordering him to keep sending Ukrainian soldiers to die in the war.

It may or may not be the end of the world, but it's not for you to tell another country that they should just give up part or all of their country.

But you Americans did that in the forties with us Italians.
We didn't decide anything.
You gave us orders. And we complied with them.
So...enough with normalizing hypocrisy, please.

Millions of lives were lost. The war only ended when the Axis powers were defeated. It was either give up when they did or lose more lives before giving up. And the Axis was fighting on the wrong side, they were fighting to take over other lands and to murder millions of innocent minorities.

This is not a world war. This is similar to the Kosovar war...and you refuse to speak of the Kosovar war.
It's a very tiny war about a territorial controversy.

My solution is for Russia to stop its invasion and go home. They've already had peace talks, and Russia has already made clear their demands in order to strike a deal. "Compromise" means giving Russia what they want and making Ukraine suffer. My solution is to not give Russia what it wants and to not make Ukraine suffer.

So you want more Ukrainians to keep dying?

I am intellectually honest and answer all your questions, I don't see any mutuality, no offense.